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Jul 30 2012
By: Hielke6991 Fender Bender 2428 posts
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The big Revenge Thread [Revived]

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93 replies 1241 views Edited Jan 29, 2013

Introduction:

 Revenge, we all know it and most experienced players hate it more than anything in the game. The booster makes you drop a grenade when you die if you have one, or always at level 2 and 3. At level 3 you drop a cluster bomb or a mega bomb when you die if you had one (see booster info below). This is frustrating as it actually rewards people for getting killed instead of being a good player. In fact its the cheapest ways of killing somebody of all, Even shooting an RPG is more skilled because you at least needed to aim it. Its so ridiculously cheap that I saw AFK players standing still at the spawn get a kill with it. The problem with revenge is probably that so many people use it. Its not even fun anymore and when almost every guy you kill drops an afterlife grenade you know there is something wrong. And its not even half as annoying for the enemy team as it is for your own because unlike the enemy team they don't have to option to throw it back. This makes it a cheap-to-use and selfish booster.

 

Uncharted 3_ Drake's Deception™_5.PNG

 

Booster info:

Level 1: Drop a live grenade upon death if you have one available.
Level 2:
 Always drop a live grenade upon death.
Level 3:
 The effects of Level 2, or drop an active Medal Kickback grenade is one is available

 

 

Problems with revenge:

One of the boosters biggest problems is that it is in slot 2, Most of the other good boosters are in slot 1 and that is why people use it so much, because they don't need to sacrifice much for it. Another problem is that you cant use team safe with it because its in slot 2. The team killing is also a huge problem since they can't throw it back and the enemy team most people get more team kills with it than they get kills with it

 

Special places for Revenge:

 Now Revenge is annoying as it is every where but there are some places where it annoys me the most.

 

The hole in the wall on London underground:

In London Underground its very annoying at the spot with the hole in the wall(see the picture). When teams start to pull down and kick off eachother this "Hail storm" of revenge grenades falls down. The grenades fall past the ledge instead of landing on top of it.

Uncharted 3_ Drake's Deception™_6.PNG

 

Team Objective hills:

The Revenge booster ruins this playlist in my opinion because when your team is defending the hill and your team mates die they leave a whole mine field behind for the player that actually did survive. And also it brings up another cheap tactic; Just rushing the enemy hill using blindfire or not shooting at all just to die in the hill and let the revenge nade kill them.

Uncharted 3_ Drake's Deception™_7.PNG

 

Revenge after Stealth kills and pull downs:

 I've seen some people complaining about Revenge nades that you can't throw back after Stealth kills and pull downs. I have had this many times too but there are also a lot of people saying that the others just suck at throwing them back. So I decided to do a lot of them to test it out.

 

Stealth kills:

 I have done 100 stealth kills on someone with revenge on in a custom game. And 11 of the 100 times I was unable to throw it back because the grenade fell before the animation was finished. I failed a few times to throw them back while I was able to so but I din't count them (I died 14 times 3 times I was able to throw them back but I missed so its 11)

 

11% is still pretty much but I noticed that all the times I died was when my character did this animation; the "knee in the back"

Uncharted 3_ Drake's Deception™.PNG

 

I was suprised that it was this animation because Its the shortest of them all. but for some reason the nade drops before the animation is done. There are 3 possible animations so assuming this one appears 33% of the time when you make a stealth kill this animation kills you 1/3 of the time(when the enemy has revenge on)

Its not too much but now we know people that it does happen and its not because I failed to throw them back.

I tested rolling away too. But it had the same result as the throwback, the "Knee in the back" animation kept killing me while the other 2 animations did not. This makes it a lot less efficient than throwbacks where the "knee in the back" animation kills you only 33% of the time.

According to SouthpawLP its possible to press triangle in the animation, Than you will throw it back as soon as the animation is done. But I haven't tested it yet.

 

Pull downs:

There are 3 kinds of pull downs in the game:

Uncharted 3_ Drake's Deception™_3.PNG

The normal pull down. When you do this one revenge is no problem at all. The revenge grenade will simply fall behind you. If it falls on your head then climb up so it will fall off.

 

Uncharted 3_ Drake's Deception™_4.PNG

This is a special pull down done when someone hangs above you. You will not see this often because the person that hangs above you must hang still. If you get a pull down like this the enemy is behind you when he dies so the revenge nade will just fall behind you. again revenge is no problem at all.

 

Uncharted 3_ Drake's Deception™_1.PNG

 

This is the pull down where revenge is actually a problem. When you do a pull down like this you pull the enemy over a cover, and the revenge grenade will land exactly on top of that cover, It might fall past it if your lucky but most of the time it will land on top of it. Dropping down is the best thing to do and usually an option. but there are 3 situations in which you can't do that.

 

1. There is an enemy shooting at you from behind, he will kill you when you drop down.

2. You hang at a place where you can't drop down because there simply is no ground below you:

Uncharted 3_ Drake's Deception™_2.PNG

3. You already pressed X to climb over when you realize the enemy drops a revenge grenade (happens a lot to me)

 

I did 50 of those in a custom game on someone with revenge and I died 11 times again (again when I failed to throw them back just because I missed I din't count them,  died 15 times but just missed 4 so its 11).That makes 22% so its not rare to die by one of those. I did all 50 pull downs without Monkey Man and I climbed over the cover I did NOT drop down. But when you use it you will die a lot less or not at all by this pull down.

 

Kicking people with revenge:

 Its pretty easy to kick people with revenge. They either need to kill you first or you can simply kill him, jump in his revenge grenade then follow him until he dies and jump in or let a buddy kill him and jump in it. You have to be undamaged when you jup in, if not then the enemy team gets the kill and you won't be able to kick him. Its funny and I hope constantly getting kicked out of matches will discourage players to use Revenge.

 

Revenge and you:

I always said that people have the right to put on what booster they like, But I changed my mind. If you know Revenge is going to kill more team mates than it will actually kill enemies and you still use it your a scrub. If you din't know than I hope this thread made you aware of it Smiley Happy And if you wan't to be a better player I definetly suggest you don't use it. Sure you will get some kills with it, But you will never become better since all those Revenge kills are 100% luck.

 

Revenge and lagg:

 Revenge and lagg are a horrible combination, I understand that lagg is always a problem and can't be fixed. But its annoying with revenge in special. When a lagger uses revenge and he dies in close combat you simply can't escape. you can run but you will die a few seconds later. You can't even throw them back, If you try to throw them back you character makes the animation but you don't throw it away. The grenade keeps where it is for 10-15 seconds and then explodes and it kills everyone that was around it at the moment it dropped (most likely the killer).

 

"Revenge is not annoying, You can just throw it back"

A lot of people say this when I am talking about revenge. Its true you can just throw it back. But some times when you kill a guy an other enemy throws a nade at you too. You can't throw both back and you will die. But thats not the only situation. I got plenty of deaths because a revenge grenade blocked the way while I was fleeing from enemies. In the heat of battle its harder to throw a grenade back than when there is just 1 enemy that has revenge. Its not revenge itself that kills you but without revenge you could have survived.

 

Possible solutions:

I hope Naughty Dog will look at Revenge sooner or later because it ruins the game for a lot of people at the moment.

Here are some solutions for fixing/nerfing Revenge:

1. Move it to slot 1, By doing this people need to sacrifice another good booster for it and they have the ability to use team safe with it.

2. Team safe the grenades so that nades from your own team can't kill you anymore. But enemy Revenge nades will still be just as annoying as they are now.

3. Take it out of the game. Its not the best solution but still I rather have no Revenge at all than Revenge as it is now.

4. Replace revenge level 2's effect with something else. It would be a lot better if a person using revenge only dropped a grenade if he really had one (like in level 1) this would make revenge grenades appear a lot less. But then there needs to be another effect for level 2.

5. Let you only drop a grenade at a death streak of 2, Just like Let me see.

6. Make the grenade fly a bit higher in the air so that people have a little more time to get away.

 

________________________________________________________________________________________________

 


I made this thread a while ago. I haven't changed much to the original but I'm making a new part from here.

 

Revenge now:

So revenge has been changed. Instead of killing team mates it just knocks them down now. Good will be your first reaction. But actually it's a lot worse. Since it doesn't kill teammates anymore revenge users won't get kicked because of it. This takes away the biggest disadvantage of revenge; The risk of getting kicked. But also it hinders your team even more. Because it DOES knock teammates down they are easy targets and this will result in cheap kills for the other team. This is way worse since previously it was just a death for your team and no point for the other.

 

...More to come, I don't think anybody reads this in the mean time. If you do you're creepy Smiley Surprised

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Survivor
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Re: The big Revenge test

Jul 30, 2012

I see that rolling wasn't included in the test... lol.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: The big Revenge test

Jul 30, 2012

Agreed.  Why don't you roll over a hundred times for us so we can see what the stats are like in that situation.  Also try to drop a couple of weapons near the stealth kill and do a hundred more throwbacks with a weapon close by. 

 

That should keep you busy for the rest of the week.  Nice graphics!

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Fender Bender
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Re: The big Revenge test

Jul 30, 2012

LiLJohnR10 wrote:

I see that rolling wasn't included in the test... lol.



It was not, But I think I'll add it later.

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Re: The big Revenge test

Jul 30, 2012

aahad85 wrote:

Agreed.  Why don't you roll over a hundred times for us so we can see what the stats are like in that situation.  Also try to drop a couple of weapons near the stealth kill and do a hundred more throwbacks with a weapon close by. 

 

That should keep you busy for the rest of the week.  Nice graphics!



I already done that, My guy kept spawning at the 2 same places so there were plenty of weapons next to him. I only picked them up when I already missed the nade.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: The big Revenge test

Jul 30, 2012

One more test you can do is.  100 pulldowns and find out how many times the grenade drops exactly in its place on top and how many drop at the bottom.  For example in that London Underground hole near the stairs. 

 

That should keep you busy until the weekend. 

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Fender Bender
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Re: The big Revenge test

Jul 30, 2012

aahad85 wrote:

One more test you can do is.  100 pulldowns and find out how many times the grenade drops exactly in its place on top and how many drop at the bottom.  For example in that London Underground hole near the stairs. 

 

That should keep you busy until the weekend. 



It depends totally depens on how thick the cover is, the same cover will always give the same result. On tiny ledges it always falls next to it. But on thick covers(like most in the desert village) it always drops on top of it. So that's not worth the time.

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Re: The big Revenge test

Jul 30, 2012

personally i just hate revenge because it kills teammates more than it kills the enemy, if it had some kind of team safe option (level 3 maybe) then i wouldn't have a problem with teammates or enemies using it, i use team safe so it helps a few times since you can't be knocked down from grenades. i don't like to go for stealth kills much anymore since it will have the stealth symbol up but my character will just melee (happens too frequently), then the enemy evades and ends up killing me, so i just shoot him then melee (not a stealth kill), or just straight shoot him...

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Naughty Paw
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Re: The big Revenge test

Jul 30, 2012
It seems to be a problem of when the enemy is considered "dead." The enemy is deemed "dead" in the Knee-Break animation when the animation isn't even finished, making it the one with the most problems.

The ledge pull over also seems to make the enemy dead at the point above the ledge, making it land there.

Fixing them would require a change in the time when they are considered "dead."
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Fender Bender
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Re: The big Revenge test

Jul 30, 2012

LiLJohnR10 wrote:

I see that rolling wasn't included in the test... lol.



I stopped testing it, Like with throwback's I only died at the "Knee in the back" animation(Picture above)

With the other 2 animations rolling away was easy but this one kept killing me.

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