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Treasure Hunter
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Re: The Solution to Item Stats.

Aug 8, 2012

Fakehound wrote:

Shadow-Man_4 wrote:

With all due respect, I don't like the idea. I like the items with stats and it worked well in Max Payne 3, so I have no complaints.


 That is fine, I'm glad you like it, but the thing is, this is Uncharted, not Max Payne.


What difference does it make? Max Payne has lots of customization, ALOT more than Uncharted. All of the items have stats, yet nobody complains? Why does this community have to always complain?

 

In all honesty, I JUST understood why Rockstar Games has no forums. Everything goes to their emails, alot less whining going on. That's why.

 

Customizable items without stats will grow boring over time, just like intros/outros that were in the BETA. Over the long term, the stats are all that'll matter. As I said before, I'd choose gameplay additions over customization anyday, and this boosts gameplay, so I'm happy with it. As long as it's balanced..




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Treasure Hunter
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Re: The Solution to Item Stats.

[ Edited ]
Aug 8, 2012

OWN1N45 wrote:

There is no solution because there is currently nothing *proven* to us that they break the game.

 

So, sorry Fakehound, but I disagree.

 

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/Multiplayer-General/The-implications-of-head-gear-stats/td-p/...



The problem isn't that could break the game, but rather that I don't want negative stats for items that I like. For instance what if I love Drake's Royal Crown but don't use anything related to situational awareness. Now not only is my benefit useless, but now my rate of fire is 5% slower! People should wear items because they like them, not because of the stats they give.

 

 


Shadow-Man_4 wrote:

Fakehound wrote:

Shadow-Man_4 wrote:

With all due respect, I don't like the idea. I like the items with stats and it worked well in Max Payne 3, so I have no complaints.


 That is fine, I'm glad you like it, but the thing is, this is Uncharted, not Max Payne.


What difference does it make? Max Payne has lots of customization, ALOT more than Uncharted. All of the items have stats, yet nobody complains? Why does this community have to always complain?

 

In all honesty, I JUST understood why Rockstar Games has no forums. Everything goes to their emails, alot less whining going on. That's why.

 

Customizable items without stats will grow boring over time, just like intros/outros that were in the BETA. Over the long term, the stats are all that'll matter. As I said before, I'd choose gameplay additions over customization anyday, and this boosts gameplay, so I'm happy with it. As long as it's balanced..


 Which is why I said keep the stats but take them off the items -.-

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Survivor
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Re: The Solution to Item Stats.

Aug 8, 2012
i get you now your saying - i can keep the cheese and garlic just not on top of the chips,
but can i also get a kebab ?
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Re: The Solution to Item Stats.

[ Edited ]
Aug 8, 2012

Fakehound wrote:

OWN1N45 wrote:

There is no solution because there is currently nothing *proven* to us that they break the game.

 

So, sorry Fakehound, but I disagree.

 

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/Multiplayer-General/The-implications-of-head-gear-stats/td-p/...



The problem isn't that could break the game, but rather that I don't want negative stats for items that I like. For instance what if I love Drake's Royal Crown but don't use anything related to situational awareness. Now not only is my benefit useless, but now my rate of fire is 5% slower! People should wear items because they like them, not because of the stats they give.

 ________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Most people are opposed to it because it'll upset the balance in the game. I don't really like the idea in the OP because it's basically an even bigger system than this currently is. This system is on a smaller scale because the player doesn't have as much flexibility as you're suggesting in your example in the OP. They either choose the head gear with the buffs/debuffs or they don't, it's either you take it or you leave it.

 

Additionally, having the head gears having stats tells you what stats they have. Your system, you're suggesting, wouldn't even tell the players what stats they chose. Can you imagine the revamping they'd have to do for your system? Menu changes, HUD changes, other things. This is a more cohesive and smaller change for accomplishing basically the same thing, except "oh no, I cannot use this if I don't want x debuff". The player can tell what stats were changed visually by looking at the player's head gear after being killed, saving ND any work in revamping the way the game works.

 

Honestly, I don't see a reason to tell them to go and revamp something else just so people can have the items they want to use for aesthetic purposes. I'd rather they keep the current system they've instated with this patch and work on anything that's potentially "broken" or whatever the hell should it happen from these items. Then, that way, they have the opportunity to actually add Classic Mode or fix other things. Not wasting time with implementing an actual, really *big* system (this would be a big system, don't act like it's not).

 

The point to the head gear stuff is to be small but affect things in a bigger way. Stripping away the stats from the head gear and making the player choose what stats they want to buff and debuff takes away from the thinking process behind choosing what head gear you want to work with your loadout. On top of that, you get to have two different head gear stats (remember, heroes head gear and villains head gear) where with your system, you'd only get to stick with 1 set of stats.

 

I think you're overlooking a lot of things just so people can be happy with something that is merely cosmetic. I'm not saying it was right for ND to go this route, but it's already too little too late to be asking them to revamp again. They're already resilient to making any gameplay changes that are actually legitimately small (*cough* the roll *rough*)

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: The Solution to Item Stats.

Aug 8, 2012

The hats should have been their own items and the stat items should have been rings just like an RPG. Problem solved in the most video gamey and crowd pleasing way possible.

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Sackboy
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Re: The Solution to Item Stats.

Aug 8, 2012

I can see what you're saying, but to play devil's advocate, there is some strategic benefit to tying stats to items. In particular, it allows your opponents to see what your special stats are and respond accordingly.

 

I agree with you though, that these aesthetic customizations should be separate so that you can wear whatever you like.

 

In essence these stat altering items are just another booster slot in disguise. I would like to see these "traits" (using Fallout language) moved to the loadout system and I would like to see all boosters / traits get some kind of visual indication. For example, Fleet Foot users could have glowing feet, so when I see a FF user I know immediately that's what they are and I know what style they play.

----------
All that said, fix matchmaking before anything else.
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Fender Bender
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Re: The Solution to Item Stats.

Aug 8, 2012

Fakehound, you sir, deserve another medal!

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: The Solution to Item Stats.

[ Edited ]
Aug 8, 2012

OWN1N45 wrote:

Fakehound wrote:

OWN1N45 wrote:

There is no solution because there is currently nothing *proven* to us that they break the game.

 

So, sorry Fakehound, but I disagree.

 

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/Multiplayer-General/The-implications-of-head-gear-stats/td-p/...



The problem isn't that could break the game, but rather that I don't want negative stats for items that I like. For instance what if I love Drake's Royal Crown but don't use anything related to situational awareness. Now not only is my benefit useless, but now my rate of fire is 5% slower! People should wear items because they like them, not because of the stats they give.

 ________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Most people are opposed to it because it'll upset the balance in the game. I don't really like the idea in the OP because it's basically an even bigger system than this currently is. This system is on a smaller scale because the player doesn't have as much flexibility as you're suggesting in your example in the OP. They either choose the head gear with the buffs/debuffs or they don't, it's either you take it or you leave it.

 

Additionally, having the head gears having stats tells you what stats they have. Your system, you're suggesting, wouldn't even tell the players what stats they chose. Can you imagine the revamping they'd have to do for your system? Menu changes, HUD changes, other things. This is a more cohesive and smaller change for accomplishing basically the same thing, except "oh no, I cannot use this if I don't want x debuff". The player can tell what stats were changed visually by looking at the player's head gear after being killed, saving ND any work in revamping the way the game works.

 

Honestly, I don't see a reason to tell them to go and revamp something else just so people can have the items they want to use for aesthetic purposes. I'd rather they keep the current system they've instated with this patch and work on anything that's potentially "broken" or whatever the hell should it happen from these items. Then, that way, they have the opportunity to actually add Classic Mode or fix other things. Not wasting time with implementing an actual, really *big* system (this would be a big system, don't act like it's not).

 

The point to the head gear stuff is to be small but affect things in a bigger way. Stripping away the stats from the head gear and making the player choose what stats they want to buff and debuff takes away from the thinking process behind choosing what head gear you want to work with your loadout. On top of that, you get to have two different head gear stats (remember, heroes head gear and villains head gear) where with your system, you'd only get to stick with 1 set of stats.

 

I think you're overlooking a lot of things just so people can be happy with something that is merely cosmetic. I'm not saying it was right for ND to go this route, but it's already too little too late to be asking them to revamp again. They're already resilient to making any gameplay changes that are actually legitimately small (*cough* the roll *rough*)



All ND would have to do is make a tab in Competitive Loadout (there is room for a tab in there) labeled 'trait' or whatever they want to name it, then you just choose the trait and bam you're done.

 

There wouldn't be any trait combining either, it would be just like it is now so you couldn't have an awesome benefit with a low negative stat. You can see what stats they are using when you die currently so that wouldn't be a problem at all. It isn't as complicated as your making it out to be.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: The Solution to Item Stats.

Aug 8, 2012

Sounds good. When I unlocked one of my first hats I was like, call out bonus, cool, -10% stopping power ARE YOU SERIOUS?

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Naughty Dog Developer
Registered: 11/15/2011
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Re: The Solution to Item Stats.

Aug 8, 2012

Fakehound wrote:

 

**bleep** item stats, you scary!

 

The introduction of item stats is a scary thing, first it is new, people generally don't like change. Coming off of a rational angle I'll take both sides into account. I don't like the idea of any customization item giving you stats. This isn't an RPG, I don't want to wear boots of fire resistance so I can shake off explosive damage easier. I wear an item because it looks cool, not because it gives nifty bonuses. Item stats promote picking the best item to wear even if you don't like it. Having a Yeti head is cool but why wear it if I can get 25% headshot damage, I'll just stick with the 3d glasses or Talbot's mask. This ruins the whole point of customization, the variety and fun of choosing goofy looking items. 

 

My second problem with item stats is pretty big, what if you like an item but hate its stats? I love Chloe's unicorn mask but hate its effect because I use cloaked often, it is not only a useless stat, I'm hindered by the negative stat. How is that fun? Why should I be forced into having these stats? The answer is simple, you shouldn't.

 

 

 The Solution!

 

 

Now wait, before you jump on the -YOU HAVEN'T EVEN TRIED IT YET- bandwagon, this thread also offers a solution for everybody, keep the stats, ditch the item stats. The concept of stats is cool, they are sort of like a third booster. ND obviously put some time and thought into the stats so I don't want to see them go to waste, but I can't stand that they are linked to items. What I suggest is Naughty Dog make an extra tab labeled 'Stats' or something another that simply lists each stat, which will keep its beneficial and negative percentages. The stats would stay just how they are now, no combining stats into a super awesome combo. Of course, if you don't want any stats at all, you simply would have the ability to choose none.

 

For example it would look like this

 

Stats (made up but you get the point)

 

1. None

 

2. Disruption Immunity 10% blindfire accuracy decrease

 

3 25% headshot damage - 10% aimed accuracy

 

4. 10% clip size - 5% movement speed decrease 

 

5. Etc.

 

 

 

TL;DR - Keep stats but take them off of customization items.


I appalud this much enthusiam but we've made the stats the way their are to help maintain competitive balance. 

 

Alss....ERMAGAWD....let us get the items available to you to play with them before you pass judgement! Smiley Happy

 

As we've shown, if something isn't working we'll find a way to change it or support. 

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