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Wastelander
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Re: Strafing......

Aug 15, 2012

Regarding strafing and Fleet Foot, I believe that the problem lies with the animations of the game in multiplayer.  The behind the scenes videos always state that Naughty Dog tries its damnedest to transfer the cinematic action and quality of the single player portion of the game into the online multiplayer, but the majority of the frustration in the multiplayer comes from the weaker animations (and let me explain).

 

The majority of the 'pro'-player tips and tactics, such as "Whack N' Roll" and "Tap a Nade," are an exploitation of the weaker multiplayer animations.  The game's original claim to fame came from its hyped animations (ex. the player is in a different posture each time they return from shooting to cover), which makes it frustrating when they are exploited.  It makes the game look bad and cheapens the 'single player to multiplayer' conversion.  The animations are so solid for the most part that when an inconsistency occurs by way of a cheap, exploitation of the animations it is a cause for frustration.

 

Fleet Foot is one such booster that is highly dependent on exploiting the animation system by the player jittering back and forth.  That is what makes a fleet footer so hard to hit for anyone.  I originally thought that Fleet Foot was put in the game back in Uncharted 2 to allow players that felt they moved too slowly while aiming to have something to make their playtime more enjoyable. 

 

What I would do is: make players move much slower while aiming by default.  When using Fleet Foot, the player should be able to move faster while aiming, but when shifting from side to side there should be a realistic compensation for the shifting of the character's body weight, nullifying the cheap advantage gained by making the animations look terrible.

 

P.S. If a 'Mercenary' mode is ever introduced across all playmodes, allow split-screeners to play.  No one likes to play against parties of five, and split-screeners are handicapped enough as it is without the burden of going up against parties of five.

Uncharted 2 Stats Card by JAKPRO.net - shnoob2
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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 07/04/2012
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Re: Strafing......

Aug 15, 2012

shnoob2 wrote:

Regarding strafing and Fleet Foot, I believe that the problem lies with the animations of the game in multiplayer.  The behind the scenes videos always state that Naughty Dog tries its damnedest to transfer the cinematic action and quality of the single player portion of the game into the online multiplayer, but the majority of the frustration in the multiplayer comes from the weaker animations (and let me explain).

 

The majority of the 'pro'-player tips and tactics, such as "Whack N' Roll" and "Tap a Nade," are an exploitation of the weaker multiplayer animations.  The game's original claim to fame came from its hyped animations (ex. the player is in a different posture each time they return from shooting to cover), which makes it frustrating when they are exploited.  It makes the game look bad and cheapens the 'single player to multiplayer' conversion.  The animations are so solid for the most part that when an inconsistency occurs by way of a cheap, exploitation of the animations it is a cause for frustration.

 

Fleet Foot is one such booster that is highly dependent on exploiting the animation system by the player jittering back and forth.  That is what makes a fleet footer so hard to hit for anyone.  I originally thought that Fleet Foot was put in the game back in Uncharted 2 to allow players that felt they moved too slowly while aiming to have something to make their playtime more enjoyable. 

 

What I would do is: make players move much slower while aiming by default.  When using Fleet Foot, the player should be able to move faster while aiming, but when shifting from side to side there should be a realistic compensation for the shifting of the character's body weight, nullifying the cheap advantage gained by making the animations look terrible.

 

P.S. If a 'Mercenary' mode is ever introduced across all playmodes, allow split-screeners to play.  No one likes to play against parties of five, and split-screeners are handicapped enough as it is without the burden of going up against parties of five.


Shortly after a certain patch (1.06?), FF behaved like that. Strafing was still fast, but it took time to change the momentum while strafing back and forth. People likened it to "ice skating." Smiley Tongue

 

Needless to say, it was considered an error by ND and it was fixed like a day later or something.

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Naughty Paw
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Re: Strafing......

Aug 15, 2012

chocolatemooset wrote:

Shortly after a certain patch (1.06?), FF behaved like that. Strafing was still fast, but it took time to change the momentum while strafing back and forth. People likened it to "ice skating." Smiley Tongue

 

Needless to say, it was considered an error by ND and it was fixed like a day later or something.



I remember that. Nobody liked it and ND quickly fixed it, meaning that that wasn't what they wanted strafing to be.

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Wastelander
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Re: Strafing......

[ Edited ]
Aug 15, 2012

cog182 wrote:
Let's get to talking!

 


FLEET FOOT MUST STAY IN UNCHARTED SERIES.

Ok. So lets just say you remove Fleet Foot and set he's lv3 speed as default speed for all characters. (I'm sorry but current default speed is way too slow!)

 

Then what 1st slot booster become "overpowered"? Cloacked? Scope In?

Right now Cloacked users have the best booster in game who protect them from:

- Expose

- Call Out

- Gotcha!

- PING!

- Their name is hedden for opposite players.

They are immune on Diruption and literally making no sounds!

Is this ok? Sure! - because they have disadvantage against fleet foot and scope in users in head to head!

 

Now just imagine we removed Fleet Foot... Which slot 1 booster gonna be the best choice in every match?

 

Another example - Scope In vs Fleet Foot.

Right now when G-Mal finnaly become high skilled gun, there is no more huge problems against Acc. mod G-Mal users with Scope In. (Unless they shooting at you in head to head on longer ranges what is fine.)

Not only coz they need to aim with that gun actually, but also coz they strafing slower than Fleet Foot users!

 

Which one booster become the best choice for "1v1" tryhards when you gonna remove Fleet Foot? 

Right now pain wobble is the only chance to beat "dancing" players for less skilled players.

Buff default strafing speed to line of FF lv.3 and all of them equip Scope In.

All mid skilled players are in !@#$% now.

 

Right now boosters looking just perfect.

Some players using Fleet Foot with AK/M9/FAL

Other using Scope In with G-Mal, Drugonov, T-Bolt

Another using Cloacked and they choose what they want becouse they don't care about winning 1v1 situations that much like rest.

Sound fair to me.

 

Cog, if you really care about lower level/ less skilled players then just give them Fleet Foot as default booster for starting level instead of Come Get Some. Problem solved.

 

In summary: You can't touch one thing without changing others.

 

 

.........................................................................................................
Step back ND. King is Back:
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Fender Bender
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Re: Strafing......

[ Edited ]
Aug 15, 2012

SouthpawLP wrote:
But without Bargain it still limits how many kickbacks you're spamming, so...

I don't even agree with kickbacks ebven being in the game, and aside from that I don't even think Bargain should even be a booster, I wouldn't mind if people could buy bargain level 1 as a paid booster but I don't agree with it being a booster at all. As far as I'm concerned the only reason people are spamming kickbacks is because ND was foolish enough to let them, so it's fair game out there.

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Fender Bender
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Re: Strafing......

Aug 15, 2012

OrangeAddict wrote:

GMRcris wrote:

cog182 wrote:

So I know we have Fleet Foot and this is quite a Booster but I'd like to hear ya'lls thoughts on strafing overall in the game.

 

Now, please, understand I'm just starting a dialog here.  Nothing will be touched but I'd like to read your thoughts on the issue.

 

Pros:

- it's immediate speed going left and right offer a tactic high level players can master with aim

- when two players do 'the dance' it feels like a test of skill

- creates you being a difficult target

 

Cons:

- low levels players can't hit $*%& when aiming at someone using this tactic

- IMO, it takes value away from using cover (why take cover to avoid fire when I can just dance?)

- low levels players can't hit $*%& when aiming at someone using this tactic (yeah, I said it again!)

 

Let's get to talking!

 

 


Your cons kinda don't make much sense to begin with....

 

1. Low level players proabably can't hit $#@! to begin with even without strafing. Maybe magically it'll be easier for them to actually tag a target standing perfectly still RE style but thats aside the point. Bad aim is bad aim, Fleet Foot certainly won't be causing anyone to magically have much more worse aim than they had before. It does take a bit to get used to it especially if you having been on the Scoped In and Cloaked bandwagon that has been going on for so long, but like I said it's not that hard to get use to or use.

 

2. How does that defeat the purpose of cover? If strafing/dancing(whatever you choose to call it) was really as effective as you said, who would ever choose anything else outside of Fleet Foot? Just do a wiggle in the middle of the map and no matter how much better cover your opposition has you will trump them in a gunfight? LOL no. That's in practice how it doesn't really work. That's why people use cloaked to sneak around and shoot people in the back, wait around corners for you to run by and blind-fire melee you or corner shoot their **bleep** off near cover with scoped in. Fleet Foot isn't going to save you from any of these situations. (currently FF hardly saves you from any situations lol.) Even in U2 was Fleet Foot that practical? Having and cover is always and advantage you want, hence why smart players are always in close proximity to something they can take cover too in case they find themselves in a bad situation.

 

Anyway in short, Fleet Foot ever since U2 has been a big reason why I loved Uncharted multiplayer, those gunfights were fun and exciting. You can dispute if it's the true way of determining skill or not but it certainly was a huge reason why I found the Uncharted formula to be addictive and fun, the fast pace and intense gunfights. U3 has long ago lost that in favor of these kids huging walls with cloaked and scoped in. People have wised up, people play smarter, their harder to kill and so they used boosters that apply to such. What else is harder to kill that someone you cannot hear at all, someone who's player arrow cannot be seen, and someone who can't even be called out? Exactly lol.

 

Gunfights exsisted in U2, I would argue they died out in U2 after 1.05 considering that giant dump of an update that was and how trivial raw gunfighting skill became considering you insta died and 1 pistol bullet and a fist was all it took to seal a deal. In U3 people have changed, people try to avoid gunfights all togeather, constantly pressed up against walls, constantly trying to get the first drop on people from the front, the back, etc... and if they don't they will just run off. I suppose people have gotten a bit smarter I suppose and this natural progression is only logical.

 

In short when Fleet Foot was nerfed in U3, the entire community felt it. Regardless what people may think, before it was nerfed people at the very least had the guts to atttempt and engage in gunfights because they could, even since Fleet Foot was nerfed the entire mind-set of the players change from who is the best at gunfights to something else entirely. I feel this is neither good or bad but as I said, Fleet Foot is an integral part of Uncharted in more ways than people may hope to understand.


I gave up all together on strafing in u3 and as you mentioned sneaking around is the way to go, I've never quite liked the feeling of the aiming and shooting mechanics all together in this game with the unecessary aim assist and what not, you won't get those gunfights you got in uc2 in uc3. Fleet foot isn't really something to be concerned about in this game tbh



I actually really enjoyed gunfights in U3 pre-Fleet Foot nerfed, sure people could argue it was too fast or whatever, I thought it was fun. Kinda reminded me of Fleet Foot from U2 pre update 1.03 (when Fleet Foot was nerfed in U2). Gunfights were serious and intense. I actually had fun but once ND nerfed Fleet Foot to the speed it currently is, on top of all that Fleet Foot had to compete against the stopping power of the G-MAL when that that insanely high, and of couse the AK-47 which has always had an insane ammount of stopping power since launch day just no one seems to point it or have a problem with it.

 

As for the AA, it was always pretty bad in U3 but you kinda just learned to work with it, I mean one could argue it wasn't even about having good aim, it was about who was best at dealing with how asburd the AA was, learn to work with it effective and get kils with it. Playing any other shooter you will quickly realize how bad the aim assist was in U3.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Strafing......

Aug 15, 2012

GMRcris wrote:

OrangeAddict wrote:

GMRcris wrote:

cog182 wrote:

So I know we have Fleet Foot and this is quite a Booster but I'd like to hear ya'lls thoughts on strafing overall in the game.

 

Now, please, understand I'm just starting a dialog here.  Nothing will be touched but I'd like to read your thoughts on the issue.

 

Pros:

- it's immediate speed going left and right offer a tactic high level players can master with aim

- when two players do 'the dance' it feels like a test of skill

- creates you being a difficult target

 

Cons:

- low levels players can't hit $*%& when aiming at someone using this tactic

- IMO, it takes value away from using cover (why take cover to avoid fire when I can just dance?)

- low levels players can't hit $*%& when aiming at someone using this tactic (yeah, I said it again!)

 

Let's get to talking!

 

 


Your cons kinda don't make much sense to begin with....

 

1. Low level players proabably can't hit $#@! to begin with even without strafing. Maybe magically it'll be easier for them to actually tag a target standing perfectly still RE style but thats aside the point. Bad aim is bad aim, Fleet Foot certainly won't be causing anyone to magically have much more worse aim than they had before. It does take a bit to get used to it especially if you having been on the Scoped In and Cloaked bandwagon that has been going on for so long, but like I said it's not that hard to get use to or use.

 

2. How does that defeat the purpose of cover? If strafing/dancing(whatever you choose to call it) was really as effective as you said, who would ever choose anything else outside of Fleet Foot? Just do a wiggle in the middle of the map and no matter how much better cover your opposition has you will trump them in a gunfight? LOL no. That's in practice how it doesn't really work. That's why people use cloaked to sneak around and shoot people in the back, wait around corners for you to run by and blind-fire melee you or corner shoot their **bleep** off near cover with scoped in. Fleet Foot isn't going to save you from any of these situations. (currently FF hardly saves you from any situations lol.) Even in U2 was Fleet Foot that practical? Having and cover is always and advantage you want, hence why smart players are always in close proximity to something they can take cover too in case they find themselves in a bad situation.

 

Anyway in short, Fleet Foot ever since U2 has been a big reason why I loved Uncharted multiplayer, those gunfights were fun and exciting. You can dispute if it's the true way of determining skill or not but it certainly was a huge reason why I found the Uncharted formula to be addictive and fun, the fast pace and intense gunfights. U3 has long ago lost that in favor of these kids huging walls with cloaked and scoped in. People have wised up, people play smarter, their harder to kill and so they used boosters that apply to such. What else is harder to kill that someone you cannot hear at all, someone who's player arrow cannot be seen, and someone who can't even be called out? Exactly lol.

 

Gunfights exsisted in U2, I would argue they died out in U2 after 1.05 considering that giant dump of an update that was and how trivial raw gunfighting skill became considering you insta died and 1 pistol bullet and a fist was all it took to seal a deal. In U3 people have changed, people try to avoid gunfights all togeather, constantly pressed up against walls, constantly trying to get the first drop on people from the front, the back, etc... and if they don't they will just run off. I suppose people have gotten a bit smarter I suppose and this natural progression is only logical.

 

In short when Fleet Foot was nerfed in U3, the entire community felt it. Regardless what people may think, before it was nerfed people at the very least had the guts to atttempt and engage in gunfights because they could, even since Fleet Foot was nerfed the entire mind-set of the players change from who is the best at gunfights to something else entirely. I feel this is neither good or bad but as I said, Fleet Foot is an integral part of Uncharted in more ways than people may hope to understand.


I gave up all together on strafing in u3 and as you mentioned sneaking around is the way to go, I've never quite liked the feeling of the aiming and shooting mechanics all together in this game with the unecessary aim assist and what not, you won't get those gunfights you got in uc2 in uc3. Fleet foot isn't really something to be concerned about in this game tbh



I actually really enjoyed gunfights in U3 pre-Fleet Foot nerfed, sure people could argue it was too fast or whatever, I thought it was fun. Kinda reminded me of Fleet Foot from U2 pre update 1.03 (when Fleet Foot was nerfed in U2). Gunfights were serious and intense. I actually had fun but once ND nerfed Fleet Foot to the speed it currently is, on top of all that Fleet Foot had to compete against the stopping power of the G-MAL when that that insanely high, and of couse the AK-47 which has always had an insane ammount of stopping power since launch day just no one seems to point it or have a problem with it.

 

As for the AA, it was always pretty bad in U3 but you kinda just learned to work with it, I mean one could argue it wasn't even about having good aim, it was about who was best at dealing with how asburd the AA was, learn to work with it effective and get kils with it. Playing any other shooter you will quickly realize how bad the aim assist was in U3.


Your absolutely correct here. The problem lies with a fair amount of the Uncharted community not playing other games to compare these issues.

The aim assist is higher in U3 than any other game I play.

Also the hip fire lock on that U3 has I have never seen in any other game.

Adding accuracy on hip fire in any other game means smaller reticule for free fire not stronger auto tracking.

I want to be the reason you're looking down at your phone laughing as you walk into a pole.
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Strafing......

Aug 15, 2012

GMRcris wrote:

SouthpawLP wrote:
But without Bargain it still limits how many kickbacks you're spamming, so...

I don't even agree with kickbacks ebven being in the game, and aside from that I don't even think Bargain should even be a booster, I wouldn't mind if people could buy bargain level 1 as a paid booster but I don't agree with it being a booster at all. As far as I'm concerned the only reason people are spamming kickbacks is because ND was foolish enough to let them, so it's fair game out there.


I'm okay with defensive kickbacks. Offensive, not so much. Using several offensive kickbacks in a match because of Bargain is annoying. You can't use as many kickbacks (at least, not as frequently/early) without Bargain.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Strafing......

Aug 15, 2012

SouthpawLP wrote:

GMRcris wrote:

SouthpawLP wrote:
But without Bargain it still limits how many kickbacks you're spamming, so...

I don't even agree with kickbacks ebven being in the game, and aside from that I don't even think Bargain should even be a booster, I wouldn't mind if people could buy bargain level 1 as a paid booster but I don't agree with it being a booster at all. As far as I'm concerned the only reason people are spamming kickbacks is because ND was foolish enough to let them, so it's fair game out there.


I'm okay with defensive kickbacks. Offensive, not so much. Using several offensive kickbacks in a match because of Bargain is annoying. You can't use as many kickbacks (at least, not as frequently/early) without Bargain.


Treasure Hunter Gold is like Bargain that you have to get. If your kickback costs a lot of medals Treasure Hunter will get you there faster, but if you have a low medal kickback then Bargain is better.

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Fender Bender
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Re: Strafing......

Aug 15, 2012

SouthpawLP wrote:

GMRcris wrote:

SouthpawLP wrote:
But without Bargain it still limits how many kickbacks you're spamming, so...

I don't even agree with kickbacks ebven being in the game, and aside from that I don't even think Bargain should even be a booster, I wouldn't mind if people could buy bargain level 1 as a paid booster but I don't agree with it being a booster at all. As far as I'm concerned the only reason people are spamming kickbacks is because ND was foolish enough to let them, so it's fair game out there.


I'm okay with defensive kickbacks. Offensive, not so much. Using several offensive kickbacks in a match because of Bargain is annoying. You can't use as many kickbacks (at least, not as frequently/early) without Bargain.


Agressive kickbacks should cost more medals to be honest. Anything that translates into an easy kill should simply cost more, but I mean just look at quick boom before that was nerfed, a clear sign of ND completely being unaware of how such a mechanic could get out of hand. Yes the kickback costs more now but even then, it's still bar none one of the best kickbacks still, that says the just how effective it is and how truly overpowered it was before when even after getting nerfed it's still one of the best kickbacks in the game.

 

Like I said if there is one sole booster that has been the eye sore for me in terms of balance, it has to be bargain, no there booster when you incorporate all elements of the game, is so blatantly OP. If their going to let people get their kickbacks sooner, what exactly could possibly compete with a booster that can essentially get you free kills quicker and more freqeuntly? They either need to take it out or add something that would directly compete with it. I always wondered why overstock from co-op was never added to competitive. I think it would be an excellent competetitor to bargain in slot 2 but thats just me. Choose between getting your kickback sooner, or being able to stack your kickbacks while you already have one ready in stock for your next one.

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