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Treasure Hunter
Registered: 12/29/2009
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Re: Reminding ND How to Balance Their Weapons

Dec 23, 2012

They need to also deal with revenge grenades. It's one of the reasons why people are turned off by classic mode due to no grenade throwbacks.

 

I'd say increase the delay between the revenge nade activating until when it actually explodes.

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Treasure Hunter
Registered: 12/10/2011
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Re: Reminding ND How to Balance Their Weapons

Dec 23, 2012

tack129 wrote:

They need to also deal with revenge grenades. It's one of the reasons why people are turned off by classic mode due to no grenade throwbacks.

 

I'd say increase the delay between the revenge nade activating until when it actually explodes.


In my grenade fixes I brought up how it Revenge would work with stealth kills, which is where I feel the greatest issue is with them.

 

If I had it my way Revenge grenades (not the kickback ones though) would only take out 50% of a person's health if the person is right on it. Sure it would still have knockdown but they wouldn't be able to kill someone unless they either took out 50% of that person's health already or the person was already at or below 50% health. This would remove the free kill aspect of Revenge (unless the person had Invalid or it was Double Damage) and make it much fairer as a booster. It wouldn't be a way to get cheap kills anymore, but at the same time it would still be extremely useful for things like TO (now that it's team safed) as well as for those who use kickback grenades like Cluster Bomb and are afraid that they'll die and be wasted.

 

Thanks for reminding me about my idea. I'll edit it into my main post. Smiley Happy

 

And with this change I feel the timing could be left alone as well, because as a whole they'd be way fairer now.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Reminding ND How to Balance Their Weapons

Dec 23, 2012

xSKIN_N_BONESx wrote:

I don't hold these as the opinions of the community and only represent myself. If you do agree feel free to kudo, or post with your own thoughts.

 

Long guns:

  • Dragon: Lower or remove aim assist.
  • Fal-SS: Replace jamming with a simple RoF cap.
  • G-MAL: Lower recoil back down to pre-1.13 levels, remove Accuracy mod, and remove more or all aim assist.
  • M9: Remove the RoF mod, or make it greatly increase the recoil and spray when equipped.
  • AK-47: Do nothing.
  • Kal-7: Lower recoil, lower bullets to kill by 1*, and replace RoF mod with Accuracy mod.(*Note: for blindfire the one less bullet to kill will still require that they shoot 5 bullets before they can punch just like right now so it wouldn't effect blindfire melee kills, only 100% blindfire kills or aimed kills.)

Pistols:

  • Para-9: Replace Blindfire Accuracy mod with No Jamming mod.
  • Raffica: Lower bullets to kill by 1.
  • Tau: Replace RoF mod with Scope Zoom mod and allow it to hit enemies in cover.
  • Micro: Do nothing.

 

Blindfire on all guns:

  • Reduce the maximum distance for blindfire lock on to 3 feet/ 1 meter.
  • Reduce the blindfire lock on cones horizontal angle so that it is within the blindfire reticle, both with and with blindfire accuracy equipped.
  • Have the blindfire of a player be directed where their camera is facing, not where the character is facing. (Right now it's both, meaning a player's character can be facing a different direction then their blindfire reticle and still lock on to an enemy.)
  • Remove all blindfire lock on while mid air.
  • Remove all blindfire lock on for explosive weapons.
  • Remove stopping power when blindfiring.
  • Reduce blindfire run speed by 20%.

Grenades:

  • Reduce the range for grenade throwbacks to 2 feet/ .66 meters from the player's feet.
  • Revenge grenades would at most only take out 50% of someone's normal health. This would remove the free kill aspect of Revenge but it would still be useful, especially for those who use kickbacks like Cluster Bomb (and the half damage grenades would not change kickback grenade damage).
  • When a stealth kill is executed give a grenade to the stealth killer, if they have room, if the enemy has a grenade or Revenge silver or higher, and prevent any Revenge grenade from dropping. You can take both their pistol and long gun so it makes sense to take their grenade too. (Would stealing a kickback grenade be too much? I'd actually think it would be fair.)
  • Make Quickboom no longer timer based and instead cause all grenades the player has when activated become Quickboom grenades. Also have it give a Quickboom grenade if the player has no grenade, and no grenades picked up after activation will become Quickboom grenades. The only grenades that will be Quickboom grenades are the one you have when you activate it.
  • Make team mate grenades when Team Safed to do no damage, not cancel a team mates Creepy Crawler.

Also I'd like to make note, that when it comes to changing ND's mind about anything, it's not a battle of wits but a war of attrition.


What you didn't say is when they nurf a gun that is op they also have to take into account the changes the that nerf will have on other guns. 

 

Will other guns now need buffs example was ak or nerfs example was g-mal you can never nerf or buff one gun because it will always change the other guns ND didn't take into account the other guns or it could have all been fixed a lot sooner.

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Survivor
Registered: 12/25/2011
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Re: Reminding ND How to Balance Their Weapons

Dec 23, 2012

xSKIN_N_BONESx wrote:

tack129 wrote:

They need to also deal with revenge grenades. It's one of the reasons why people are turned off by classic mode due to no grenade throwbacks.

 

I'd say increase the delay between the revenge nade activating until when it actually explodes.


In my grenade fixes I brought up how it Revenge would work with stealth kills, which is where I feel the greatest issue is with them.

 

If I had it my way Revenge grenades (not the kickback ones though) would only take out 50% of a person's health if the person is right on it. Sure it would still have knockdown but they wouldn't be able to kill someone unless they either took out 50% of that person's health already or the person was already at or below 50% health. This would remove the free kill aspect of Revenge (unless the person had Invalid or it was Double Damage) and make it much fairer as a booster. It wouldn't be a way to get cheap kills anymore, but at the same time it would still be extremely useful for things like TO (now that it's team safed) as well as for those who use kickback grenades like Cluster Bomb and are afraid that they'll die and be wasted.

 

Thanks for reminding me about my idea. I'll edit it into my main post. Smiley Happy

 

And with this change I feel the timing could be left alone as well, because as a whole they'd be way fairer now.


The revenge grenades need to be like Uncharted 2's. The grenade would float in the air, land and explode. At the moment it just falls and blows up.

If you think something is impossible, you’ll make it impossible.
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Survivor
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Re: Reminding ND How to Balance Their Weapons

Dec 23, 2012

xSKIN_N_BONESx wrote:

tapantaola wrote:

I was probably confused with the G-MAL damage.

I personally think the AK-47 is fine since it got the 10% Accuracy buff. Making it 6HK on top of that and having pretty high stopping power, would probably make it "OP".


I wasn't endorsing that change only trying to explain it, just to clarify. I'm fine with the current AK, and if the other changes I made were added in it would become slightly better comparatively. A lot of why it loses out to the M9, it's direct competition, is blindfire, recoil, and the RoF mod. With blindfire fixed and the RoF mod balanced/removed then it would only lose out due to recoil and their base RoFs but still have it's better stopping power, and when you get to closer ranges the recoil for both guns is comparatively just as easy to keep on target so that would be less of a factor to distance the two.


 

 

i havent played this game seriously since the last map pack came out. i came back to try out crushing mode and tried some standard TDM also - i used to be good with the AK but it take a lot of practice to become an expert with the thing. having used it lately it is defo underpowered and doesnt have many upsides to it.

it didnt need the accuracy buff - that wasnt the wright buff imo (it not an accurate weapon).

a powerful weapon yes, at 6 bullets to the chest or head  it still wouldnt even kill faster than the m9 - however it would increase its blindfire effectiveness a lot since it would be a 3 shot + melee kill - therefore its blindfire accuracy should be reduced. if it was by some chance overpowered it could have its recoil increased again - it is supposed to be a closer range assault rifle (closer range than the others).

 

the Fal is also the wrong way around by ND - its supposed to be a longer range weapon - therefore reduce its recoil and increase its zoom slightly (currently the zoom makes the gun worse at longer range - its only useful at closer ranges)

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Treasure Hunter
Registered: 11/12/2009
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Re: Reminding ND How to Balance Their Weapons

[ Edited ]
Dec 23, 2012

Dem fixes, I want them. A well earned kudos my man. I agree with all of them and I'd definitely see myself playing more if even a couple of those were actually added.

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Treasure Hunter
Registered: 12/10/2011
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Re: Reminding ND How to Balance Their Weapons

Dec 23, 2012

Blooddrunk123 wrote:

xSKIN_N_BONESx wrote:

tack129 wrote:

They need to also deal with revenge grenades. It's one of the reasons why people are turned off by classic mode due to no grenade throwbacks.

 

I'd say increase the delay between the revenge nade activating until when it actually explodes.


In my grenade fixes I brought up how it Revenge would work with stealth kills, which is where I feel the greatest issue is with them.

 

If I had it my way Revenge grenades (not the kickback ones though) would only take out 50% of a person's health if the person is right on it. Sure it would still have knockdown but they wouldn't be able to kill someone unless they either took out 50% of that person's health already or the person was already at or below 50% health. This would remove the free kill aspect of Revenge (unless the person had Invalid or it was Double Damage) and make it much fairer as a booster. It wouldn't be a way to get cheap kills anymore, but at the same time it would still be extremely useful for things like TO (now that it's team safed) as well as for those who use kickback grenades like Cluster Bomb and are afraid that they'll die and be wasted.

 

Thanks for reminding me about my idea. I'll edit it into my main post. Smiley Happy

 

And with this change I feel the timing could be left alone as well, because as a whole they'd be way fairer now.


The revenge grenades need to be like Uncharted 2's. The grenade would float in the air, land and explode. At the moment it just falls and blows up.


This would make Revenge fairly useless, but at the same time, it would still have the potential to kill when you turn the corner right into someone's recently dropped Revenge grenade. If they only could do 50% health then the timing of them right now would be completetly fair because it's not like it would be giving them free kills, where Revenge does 100% of the damage.

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Keyblade Wielder
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Re: Reminding ND How to Balance Their Weapons

Dec 23, 2012

what about a thrownback revenge grenade? Will that still be 50%, or will it become regular damage?

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Reminding ND How to Balance Their Weapons

[ Edited ]
Dec 23, 2012

sanddude20 wrote:

what about a thrownback revenge grenade? Will that still be 50%, or will it become regular damage?


Still 50% damage. It would have the normal stun radius though, so if you hit someone with a throwback Revenge grenade you'd probably kill them right after.

 

Although as I said the throwback range should be reduced, so you'd have to actually get near it to throw it back.

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Limit Breaker
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Re: Reminding ND How to Balance Their Weapons

Dec 23, 2012

Really?  I mean, they can't change one aspect of a weapon without drastically changing the way it plays, and you want a broad range of changes over several weapons?

No.   Leave everything where it is.



[ 39 ] Every time a mine downs someone an Angel gets its wings.
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