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Nov 03 2012
By: ArVaDa- I Only Post Everything 928 posts
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Couple Of Quick Notes Regarding the Air Game in Starhawk.

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38 replies 326 views Edited Nov 3, 2012

I know these threads have been done a million times already and I know it is way to late and foolish to think anything will ever be fixed on starhawk. But I guess merely out of boredom I thought that I would share some of my thoughts on a couple of things. THE_MAANGAS made a **bleep** epic post discussing his critisims of the game a couple of weeks ago so look there for a more detailed despription of the faults in starhawks air game. One of the key things he pointed out was it wasn't the weapons that were broken but rather the dodging mechanics of starhawk as a whole, whih i completely agree with. 

 

Anyways Here Are A CAF pilots thoughts:

 

Flak: I like flak and I honestly think it is fine the way it is now. It is primarily the only useful A2A weapon when it comes to dogfighting a good to great pilot in the air; especially when sheild use is involved. 

 

Swarms: Completely useless in most situations except for distractions and maybe desperate defensive use. By defensive I mean you shoot them in the hopes of distracting the other pilot enough to either escape to health/sheild or maybe even trick him into using up his chaff. In 1 v 1 dogfights where no sheild is involved they are actually very useful and can do damage, the problem though is they do such little damage and have such a low hit rate that they are rendered useless in how long it would take to shoot down an enemy pilot before he/she escapes to health/sheild. 

 

Homers: After the last patch they made on homing missiles I really struggled dodging them effectively. I'm not gonna lie i think it took me about a week of on and off again playing before I really learned the most effective ways to dodge them. I fly CAF and coming from someone with no warhawk experience i simply don't understand when some people wanna moan about how easy it is to pick up CAF, which isn't true. There is actually a very steep learning curve when it comes to teaching yourself how to fly in this game. Yes, when you actually master it (which with all honestly i feel like i have) it is way too overpowered. (I'll get more into that in a sec.) But strictly speaking about shooting homers at enemy pilots there is usually two extremes: it is too hard for noob pilots to dodge and wayyyy to easy for pilots with any experience in the game to dodge. There is a middle ground here with average pilots were it is hit or miss but usually homer accuracy falls into one of those two extremes. I won't get too much into detail with the problem of homing missiles because the bigger problem (like MAANGAS mentioned is that it is more the problem with the dodging mechanics of the game then anything)

 

Cloak: One of the most underated pickups in the game. Af pilots usually spam use the cloak more then any other pilot to stay alive but you do see the occasional CAF pilot who realizes how effective the cloak can be. I think it is fine the way that it is and don't see to much of a problem with it. Does it suck getting shot down from behind when someone cloaks up on you? Yes. But it makes the overal gameplay better in the air and really makes you focus on your map awareness. 

 

Sheild: I hate the sheild more then any other pickup. It is abused beyond belief and it gets to the point where you don't even see the point in the playing  the game anymore. When you are in the air getting chased by 10 pilots (no sarcam I can post picks going 5 v 16) and staying alive for 20 minutes, not getting shot down once, then something is seriously wrong. At first I used to think it was skill, and dont get me wrong only a very small percentage of pilots can survive in the air that outnumbered, but now i realize how cheap and completely broken the air game, at least for me is. If the dodging mechanics would never be fixed in a hypothetical world and we could only fix the sheild I would recommend: 50 hitpoints like it does now but a cooldown were every second that you fly around with it equiped you lose 1 HP. Basically, you could only have it equipped for 50 seconds non stop. Then I'd probaly just make it where you could only pick it up once a life. 

 

Or I would just make it a server option to whether or not the shild could be equipped at all when making a server. I do realize that the sheild can be a really good training wheel when you are first learning to fly so i wouldn't take it out completely for noobs learning the game. 

 

Gatekeeper is boring and broken when the ball carrier can use sheild. Gatekeeper isn't played the way it should be when two teams with average to good pilots are on both teams. It isn't about attacking and protecting the ball carrier which would actually make for an interesting game, but rather who can get to the ball first when it spawns in. Once a good pilot grabs it and uses sheild it is almost **bleep** near impossible to kill them.

 

Air Mines: Useless. You do get the occasional kill with them (Just ask ballsmakinze LOL) but they don't have any tactical use.

 

CAF vs AF: There is really no answer to which mode is better as this debate has been brewing long before i first posted on these forums. I will say 95% of the well known "good" pilots on starhawk fly CAF. While this might suggest something all together I can't make a real argument that CAF is better when i've flown vs the 5% of AF pilots and seen how deadly it can be when mastered. I do hate people that pretend that learning CAF is easy, when it truly isn't as easy as people like to suggest. Why do you think  there are almost always more GP servers then ones with hawk loadouts? Because people simply don't have the patience to learn how to fly.  It took me a ton of hours to get to where I am now. Ik warhawk took a lot longer to get better in that game and I'd rather not even talk about warhawk when i'm talking strictly about starhawk here. 

 

 

Also if anyone would wish to test out my opinions to whether or not sheild is broken then I'd be happy to set up a 1 v 1 server where you try to kill me while I ride the sheild the entire time. I've already proven it to a couple of people but there is always that one ignornant guy out there who pretends to know what he is talking about. 

 

Anyways that turned into a rant but I honestly just felt like jotting down what has been bugging me for a realll long time. Like i've said people have made a lot of threads on this, and it isn't a thread where i demand LBI to look at it. Because there is no LBI and there is almost no chance of any of these things being looked into. 

 

 

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Wastelander
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Re: Couple Of Quick Notes Regarding the Air Game in Starhawk.

Nov 3, 2012
Great read Arvada, I agree on everything especially on the gatekeeper paragraph!
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Fender Bender
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Re: Couple Of Quick Notes Regarding the Air Game in Starhawk.

Nov 3, 2012
Air mines ftw lmao.

I agree with pretty much everything. I would consider myself decent at best but if I ride shield the number of pilots I can withstand doubles easily but I choose not to use it because it is ridiculous.
I'll put it this way; Played a certain top clan the other day and since they decided to team switch and play dirty I ran shield and easily went 1v4. Ridiculous.

Gatekeeper- Honestly I love this mode but I can definitely understand what you're saying. The only thing that breaks this mode is again shield. If you're in flotilla forget about it. There's enough pickups there to go from stealth to shield repeatedly and that's what everyone tends to do. I can understand noobs doing it but if you're a level 50 then grow some balls.

Homers- Not really a problem for me and I actually find it easier to dodge them in AF but like Arvada said it takes time to learn. All points stated above on this issue I second.
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Couple Of Quick Notes Regarding the Air Game in Starhawk.

Nov 3, 2012

these are quick notes?

I'll read on my vacation.  :smileytongue:

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Couple Of Quick Notes Regarding the Air Game in Starhawk.

Nov 3, 2012
I agree on everything here to. The only thing I don't like and I didn't like it in warhawk either is how the normal or caf can move the camera angle all around while spinning. I do not agree with this. If it is not in front of you then you should not be able to lock on and shoot.
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Couple Of Quick Notes Regarding the Air Game in Starhawk.

[ Edited ]
Nov 3, 2012

ArVaDa- wrote:

I know these threads have been done a million times already and I know it is way to late and foolish to think anything will ever be fixed on starhawk. But I guess merely out of boredom I thought that I would share some of my thoughts on a couple of things. THE_MAANGAS made a **bleep** epic post discussing his critisims of the game a couple of weeks ago so look there for a more detailed despription of the faults in starhawks air game. One of the key things he pointed out was it wasn't the weapons that were broken but rather the dodging mechanics of starhawk as a whole, whih i completely agree with. 

 

Anyways Here Are A CAF pilots thoughts:

 

Flak: I like flak and I honestly think it is fine the way it is now. It is primarily the only useful A2A weapon when it comes to dogfighting a good to great pilot in the air; especially when sheild use is involved. 

 

Flak is fine, just needs a wee bit more of a pronounced sound.  It was a little louder in the beta so you knew it was coming after that first spray.

 

Swarms: Completely useless in most situations except for distractions and maybe desperate defensive use. By defensive I mean you shoot them in the hopes of distracting the other pilot enough to either escape to health/sheild or maybe even trick him into using up his chaff. In 1 v 1 dogfights where no sheild is involved they are actually very useful and can do damage, the problem though is they do such little damage and have such a low hit rate that they are rendered useless in how long it would take to shoot down an enemy pilot before he/she escapes to health/sheild. 

 

Agreed.  They are worthless as teats on a bore hog. Great for making someone burn chaff, and you can kinda follow up a homing missile with MG and swarms since they lock on fast, but yeah.  Not entirely effective.

 

Homers: After the last patch they made on homing missiles I really struggled dodging them effectively. I'm not gonna lie i think it took me about a week of on and off again playing before I really learned the most effective ways to dodge them. I fly CAF and coming from someone with no warhawk experience i simply don't understand when some people wanna moan about how easy it is to pick up CAF, which isn't true. There is actually a very steep learning curve when it comes to teaching yourself how to fly in this game. Yes, when you actually master it (which with all honestly i feel like i have) it is way too overpowered. (I'll get more into that in a sec.) But strictly speaking about shooting homers at enemy pilots there is usually two extremes: it is too hard for noob pilots to dodge and wayyyy to easy for pilots with any experience in the game to dodge. There is a middle ground here with average pilots were it is hit or miss but usually homer accuracy falls into one of those two extremes. I won't get too much into detail with the problem of homing missiles because the bigger problem (like MAANGAS mentioned is that it is more the problem with the dodging mechanics of the game then anything)

 

I HATED the delay on the homers... still do, but I've adapted, found the sweet spot, they are my go-to weapon in SH just like in WH.

 

Cloak: One of the most underated pickups in the game. Af pilots usually spam use the cloak more then any other pilot to stay alive but you do see the occasional CAF pilot who realizes how effective the cloak can be. I think it is fine the way that it is and don't see to much of a problem with it. Does it suck getting shot down from behind when someone cloaks up on you? Yes. But it makes the overal gameplay better in the air and really makes you focus on your map awareness. 

 

Never used it much in WH, in fact I forget it exists, don't use it much in SH.  Don't knock those that do.  I do wish the Hawks made that crazy thrumming sound when cloaked like the WH ones do.  You might not could see them from the ground, but you knew they were around.

 

Sheild: I hate the sheild more then any other pickup. It is abused beyond belief and it gets to the point where you don't even see the point in the playing  the game anymore. When you are in the air getting chased by 10 pilots (no sarcam I can post picks going 5 v 16) and staying alive for 20 minutes, not getting shot down once, then something is seriously wrong. At first I used to think it was skill, and dont get me wrong only a very small percentage of pilots can survive in the air that outnumbered, but now i realize how cheap and completely broken the air game, at least for me is. If the dodging mechanics would never be fixed in a hypothetical world and we could only fix the sheild I would recommend: 50 hitpoints like it does now but a cooldown were every second that you fly around with it equiped you lose 1 HP. Basically, you could only have it equipped for 50 seconds non stop. Then I'd probaly just make it where you could only pick it up once a life. 

 

I like the shield myself, but we really don't need it AND the stealth.  One or the other will suffice.

 

Or I would just make it a server option to whether or not the shild could be equipped at all when making a server. I do realize that the sheild can be a really good training wheel when you are first learning to fly so i wouldn't take it out completely for noobs learning the game. 

 

Gatekeeper is boring and broken when the ball carrier can use sheild. Gatekeeper isn't played the way it should be when two teams with average to good pilots are on both teams. It isn't about attacking and protecting the ball carrier which would actually make for an interesting game, but rather who can get to the ball first when it spawns in. Once a good pilot grabs it and uses sheild it is almost **bleep** near impossible to kill them.

 

Air Mines: Useless. You do get the occasional kill with them (Just ask ballsmakinze LOL) but they don't have any tactical use.

 

CAF vs AF: There is really no answer to which mode is better as this debate has been brewing long before i first posted on these forums. I will say 95% of the well known "good" pilots on starhawk fly CAF. While this might suggest something all together I can't make a real argument that CAF is better when i've flown vs the 5% of AF pilots and seen how deadly it can be when mastered. I do hate people that pretend that learning CAF is easy, when it truly isn't as easy as people like to suggest. Why do you think  there are almost always more GP servers then ones with hawk loadouts? Because people simply don't have the patience to learn how to fly.  It took me a ton of hours to get to where I am now. Ik warhawk took a lot longer to get better in that game and I'd rather not even talk about warhawk when i'm talking strictly about starhawk here. 

 

Spinning is annoying, I don't disagree, but I fly AF/PF and still argued to get CAF/NF in SH. Why?  Because some people just can't fly AF/PF, and some just can't fly CAF/NF.  Its a matter of how the brain percieves things, not just the nausea issues of AF/PF.  Also, with the two different flight modes, we have diversity of flight styles, and I'm all for diversity. (I do NOT consider that abomination of noobified b.s. of SH's NF to be a flight mode btw) I have not tested this in SH, but I know in WH - A PF pilot CAN SPIN and a NF pilot can fly upside down and sideways.... (little known fact).  Anyway.  Perhaps the thing LB should have done, and what we asked them to do is fix the camera issues and make the dodging a little less easy for a CAF pilot in SH, and give the AF/PF pilots un-tampered with WH PF.  But that didn't happen, so here we are again, with the same old WH argument:  PF vs NF. 

 

 

Also if anyone would wish to test out my opinions to whether or not sheild is broken then I'd be happy to set up a 1 v 1 server where you try to kill me while I ride the sheild the entire time. I've already proven it to a couple of people but there is always that one ignornant guy out there who pretends to know what he is talking about. 

 

Anyways that turned into a rant but I honestly just felt like jotting down what has been bugging me for a realll long time. Like i've said people have made a lot of threads on this, and it isn't a thread where i demand LBI to look at it. Because there is no LBI and there is almost no chance of any of these things being looked into. 

 

 


 

 That's the short of it.  I had more to add, but Mr. BnS is riding me... erm... to get off the forums and actually do some research on how to build a stair railing and finish out a staircase.  :smileytongue:

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Fender Bender
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Re: Couple Of Quick Notes Regarding the Air Game in Starhawk.

Nov 3, 2012
Never been able to get a bw lock with a homer but defiantly can with flak although it's not a lock but it will shoot behind me. Ask wrappy :smileyhappy:
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Fender Bender
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Re: Couple Of Quick Notes Regarding the Air Game in Starhawk.

Nov 3, 2012
Rarara....


this is me helping
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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Couple Of Quick Notes Regarding the Air Game in Starhawk.

Nov 3, 2012
That is what I am talking about balls shooting behind you is bullcrapt. I can deal with it but it does get annoying being hit by someone in front of you when they should be doing nothing but dodging instead of shooting and connecting with it. That is why I have always said fix the camera for NF and CAF they shouldn't be able to shoot behind them at all.
GIfreakyevil
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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Couple Of Quick Notes Regarding the Air Game in Starhawk.

Nov 3, 2012
just a quick note, flight is dart slow, if you dont have EM, not only will you not be able to compete with others but...flight gets boring, i actually stopped flying for a period because one i was getting rusty in my ground game and two it was just to slow for me, and this further seen when there are only 2 people in the air, its just too slow. And when there are many people you cant get any pick ups, so your stuck either way...
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