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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 4, 2011

SunavaGun82 wrote:

The core things are still there in Socom 4, people just refuse to say it. If these things were not there I would not be playing this game.

3rd person shooter (even though camera is overly sensitive)

Tactical non respawn gameplay (even though XP ranking system is crap)

The community..No other shooter has a better community than Socom (even though mics are dodgy)

Clan battling (even though party system is disfunctional at times)

That is the core to Socom in my opinion. It is there with with gashes, but it is there. And this is why I know for a fact people who say they're leaving for BF3 or any other shooter are lying because I know this stuff is what makes Socom and you cannot get this stuff in other shooters like you do in Socom.

Your core includes no Gameplay mechanics huh? So if I do 3rd Person SnD clan war in MW2 does that make it Socom?

I HATE ZIPPER INTERACTIVE (PS3 Era)

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 4, 2011

Keltimus wrote:

GaRcHoW wrote:

Sushi_Pirate wrote:

Hey everyone, quick question for you that I'm curious about.  Essentially, why SOCOM? 

I feel that many who post on the SOCOM forum are evangelists for the series either good or bad, with roots stretching back nearly a decade, as such I want to get to the core of what made you fall in love with the franchise in the first place, and what are the real core elements in future games that would bring you back.  From brainstorming a bit here are some of the keys I came up with:

-3rd person shooter

-Tactical

-Realistic

-Sense of Community

-Sense of Teamwork

-Roots/ties

-Gameplay (specifically what aspects)

-Fast paced nature

-Stealth

-Variable tactics and ever shifting gameplay/matches

There are many more I'm sure, but what I'd like to ask you is, what are the top three core things about SOCOM for you that made the game and franchise what it is?  Also why are they important?

Thanks in advance guys for keeping it civil and constructive. 

-SP

You nailed all those for MP. 

I love the single players cause they felt real. Very little was scripted. They weren't linear. You weren't told what to do every step of the way with checkpoint markers.The gameplay was based around missions and not some hollywood story. I loved voice commands and all the options you had within those commands. No checkpoints, you got the mission done. There was no reward for almost. One of your team mates could die and the mission wasn't failed. I remember carrying Boomers dead body to a safe place where I could find him after I completed the rest of the mission. Than I would carry it all the way to the extract because I felt like I couldn't leave a man behind. 

The gameplay. D-Pad lean was epic for me in SP. The grenade arch was great the music was awesome. Everything about the first 2 SPs were perfect in my mind. Why Zipper strayed away from that I have no idea, but they sure as hell paid the price for stabbing their fans in the face with Socom 4.

Photobucket

You can tell in the first titles the actual Navy SEALs had some involvement with the creation of the game. At some point the either the Navy's public relations had the involvement terminated or the devs went less and less realistic to draw in a crowd who love fantasy and theatrics. But still, the game didn't have to change so much from the first titles. All we wanted was the same format, just new missions, MP maps, and game modes. Apparently asking for something so simple was just too irrational.

PLAYSTATION 3 NEEDS A SERIOUS SOCOM GAME

Right on man! Thats all I'm asking for. Personally I don't want a remake. I want a new Socom that follows the originals to a the book.

I HATE ZIPPER INTERACTIVE (PS3 Era)

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 7, 2011

Sushi_Pirate wrote:

Big_Fred18 wrote:

DEADEYEZ wrote:

Sushi_Pirate wrote:

Thanks for the constructive feedback so far everyone, it's appreciated.  Keep'em coming. 

-SP

So whats going to come out of this thread? Are you going to pass this on to zipper or sony? Or is this just more writing on the walls of the forum to be ignored.

PSN:PRE_-CISION-_Thanks for killing SOCOM zipper

I am wondering the same thing.  Is this going to be for the next Socom,Remake of an old, or for a new game that we don't know? 

I'll be sending it over to Zipper along with a report on the community as well as up the food chain on my end.  I've already chatted about it with my manager and a few of my co-workers and shown them the community responses in both this thread and the one Luk (I'm also sending his) created.

One of the worst things that can happen from our point of view is for a fanatic/evangelist of a game to become disenfranchised, and if we can learn from that and get to the core of the issue, and what were the core items/things which caused it, then at very least progress can be made and a lesson learned.

-SP

Wasn't research done before deciding on the change in direction? These questions are way to late to change anything in Socom 4. The only way to save this community is to have an exchange program. When Socom 5 comes out (like Socom 1 and 2), everyone with a Socom 4 game can trade it in for a free Socom 5 game. Have Zipper/Sony post an official appology and have them prove there fan base is important to them.

I would offer feedback, but as seeing how well Zipper/Sony listen, it would be a waste a time.

"One of the worst things that can happen from our point of view is for a fanatic/evangelist of a game to become disenfranchised, and if we can learn from that and get to the core of the issue, and what were the core items/things which caused it, then at very least progress can be made and a lesson learned."

How is it that you understand this, but the developer and Sony do not? Socom was right... it was nearly perfect, and you threw it away, so don't ask us for a life line. You sank the ship without knowing how to swim.

I still have hope, but not for Socom 4, the foundation in which it was built can not handle a real Socom game.

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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 7, 2011

I concur.   S1 and S2 were perfect.   How can you  remove features and content with A.  bigger budget.  B.  Bigger staff  C.  more computing/network power ???

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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 7, 2011

Stackcluster wrote:

Sushi_Pirate wrote:

Hey everyone, quick question for you that I'm curious about.  Essentially, why SOCOM? 

and what are the real core elements in future games that would bring you back.

Thanks in advance guys for keeping it civil and constructive. 

-SP

There you go, I felt like this needed to be stated here, just to be sure:

http://community.us.playstation.com/thread/3483118

r_e_v wrote:

SOCOM 4

A Competitive Player's View

DON'T LET SOCOM DIE SUPPORT VIDEO

FACEBOOK SUPPORT PAGE!

This thread is a dedicated contribution to the ideas, opinions, and overall viewpoint of the "Competitive" Socom player, so let the truth be known on how we feel. We will be discussing different topics each day and this thread will be constantly updating.

Alright boys and girls, sit back, relax and get comfy, because it's time to reveal the key elements in making SOCOM 4 into the competitive natured game it's predecessor's once were, and has since then diminished.

Keep In Mind:

we understand that Socom 4 has been in production for almost 3 years now and we realize many of these ideas and points we want established into the game have a decent chance of not being implemented, but our point is to at least give a representation of what would be worthy additions/subtractions, and with hope perhaps a few ideas could change some opinions upstairs.

TOPIC OF THE DAY: LONGJON's Video Updates


____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

MOVEMENT & ANIMATION

One of the key concepts to accomplishing success in Socom 4, would be applying virtually what we have seen in the past from you guys: S1, S2, and S3 basic movements, while of course adding your own spice to the title, as it is 2010 and you (Zipper) have made it clear you are going to tinker in order to fit the need for the current generation.

The list below will show what the obvious wants are as far as movements and animations are concerned

-Reload Speed (make it snappy and quick, unlike confrontation)

-Strafing ( we want to feel loose and free, quick is the key here )

-Run Speed ( FAST, it's obvious we like speed, and Zipper has done that well in the past, so keep it fast!)

 

-Sprint ( keep it out, we'd rather run with our guns-a-blazing, the realism factor doesn't need to be present )

-Prone Dive ( we want the ability to dive down, stay down, or be able to pop back up quick, limitless, like in Socom 2)

-Prone Lean ( this should be enabled regardless how much realism your going for )

-Jump/Climb (boy is this implementation missed, we like to climb objects quickly, and objects that seem climbable too )

-Gun Switching ( Again with the free-feeling factor, fast, fast, fast, in a gunfight we want quick access to other weapons)

-Reload v2 (we'd like to do it fast as mentioned, but uninterrupted and also in mid-air, that limitation failed in S:CON)

-Firing Mid-Air ( Socom 3 was a little carried away, S:CON disabled it, and Socom 2 did it juuuuuust RIGHT!)

-Character ( make him ambidextrous as Zipper always has, it gives a much neater appearance and plays better as well)

-Lean ( make it useful, unlike Confrontation where you virtually had to put your whole body out to fire)

-Gun Hot ( make it like earlier iterations, not Confrontation's style )

-Speed Summary ( overall faster movements cause for more exciting gunfights, hence the addiction we know and love)

So, overall, essentially give us the formula of animation and movement's from your past games on the PS2, but selecting certain elements from each game and their the animations like the ones listed above.


LOBBIES

Ah yes, lobbies, the unique set-up lobbies bring to SOCOM gives us a community felt presence that no other game can resemble. This is one aspect of the game we are not worried about AT ALL when it comes to Zipper's many talents. They have proven to be "experts" if you will, in making superb Lobby Systems that flow and work flawlessly ( for the most part ). They have proven now in MAG that on the PS3 things will be just as soothing as before, with great transitions and quick menu pop-ups with virtually no load times.

So we know what Zipper can do, and we're asking that they replicate, to almost the same degree, a Socom 1, 2, or 3 lobby set-up. Any of these three or elements from each will give us what we're looking for and expecting in Socom 4. But for re-assurance, let's take a deeper dig into sub-elements of the Lobby breakdown.

-Fluid Menus (basically do what you guys have been doing in past Socoms, MAG shows us you can do it on the PS3)

-Text Chat (While Zipper always had text chat, Slant Six did not, keep text chat in the lobbies, we like it and it helps!)

-Single Map Rank Rooms ( hopefully Zipper will stay true to having rooms like "Desert Glory" Ranked i.e)

-Spectating (Socom 2 had the best set-up for this, use that formula and grow from there and we've got a winner)

-Message Boards (Socom 3 introduced this and was actually a great feature, would be nice if able to access them on the game)

-Friend Following (an in-game friends list with several options to choose and the addition to follow a friend - i.e MAG, Socom 3)

-Friend Location ( simply seeing where your friends are is a nice touch - let's not pull a Confrontation style view )

-UCCR ( aka User Created Ranked Rooms, glitchers are going to glitch regardless, so let's see this return )

-Community (Past Socom community features have been great, stick too them, creating clans and all of course )

Like we've touched on Zipper, you guys ROCK at making Lobbies, From all your past games we've seen great and innovative lobbies progress and we love it. Most of these ideas are in all Socom's that Zipper has created and more or less are reminders that we like your way and not Socom Confrontation's way.

Remember, lobbies are essentially a core part of the Socom experience, even if it does sound like a smaller, less important element, it just gives that sense of unity, that we're all out there holding tryouts, recruiting, fighting epic battles, and having some good times, here we see the community in front of us, so make us feel at home! ( maybe a sweet theme song too )


GAMEPLAY

This topic is without a doubt one of the most crucial keys to success, and for Socom is the MAIN attraction. Forget flashy graphics, Socom has never been about that ( not to say Socom 4 won't look very pretty ). When it comes down to it, gameplay is what sucked us all in, the "star" of the show, without it,  Socom would be another fish in the bucket (analogy fail <<).

What exactly is gameplay? Well, we see it as a combination of the "feel" and overall structure of the game, to put it simple. Some features that don't have a particular section we'll be including here.

 

Here we'll discuss our list of crucial factors in gameplay:

-First Person View ( all past Zipper Socom's implemented this as the secondary view, and that's how we like it, simple as that)

-Weapon Selecting ( for the love of mankind this is not GRAW, Socom 1 and 2 perfected weapon selection, don't go changing)

-11 Rounds ( We like this number, ALOT, and we like to earn our tiebreakers via battlefield, not by computer decision; s1,2,3)

-Movement ( see MOVEMENT AND ANIMATION section; movement is another valued "feel" we missed in Confrontation )

-Bomb Respawn ( why Slant Six decided to do this is a mystery, Zipper's non respawning bomb is definitely our preference )

-Bomb Pick Up ( pressing a button to perform an animated pick up just felt like betrayal, a simple walk-over always worked)

-Custom Taunts ( We miss these, badly, it's a small feature we absolutely LOVE, who doesn't like custom taunting? )

-Grenade Taunting ( Again, Zipper had these in all their games, Slant Six went bye bye with it. We want it back! Raheelah! )

-Grenades From Dead ( if a dead player has grenades on them, we should be able to pick them up, i.e Socom 2)

-Bullet Spray ( reduce the bullet spray, put in a system like Socom 1's accuracy set-up in virtually every aspect )

-Scoreboard ( Socom 1's between round scoreboard and Socom 2's in game scoreboard, we'd like to see total kills!)

-Side Switching ( Confrontation tried doing this at the halfway mark, and honestly, it's better off being 1 side per game )

There are many aspects we can associate with gameplay, so if some don't seem to the norm of what you define it's simply because we feel it'd be better here than in a smaller section/topic down the road.

While all of these elements are considered crucial, most of us are going to need to accept the fact that Zipper is going to change a few things, there's nothing we can do. It's 2010 and they want to open up new ideas, we know this. With that being said both new and old should be implemented to complement each other, giving us a fresh taste with the good ole Socom touch.


PERSPECTIVE VIEW

3rd Person

It's rare these days that you see a "true" 3rd person perspective like SOCOM gives us. Well, let me rephrase that, it's rare these days you see a true 3rd person perspective like SOCOM 1, 2, and 3. Yea, that's right, we were a little dissapointed to see the 3rd person view change a tad in Confrontation. The view seems to become "cluttered" at times and is a "closer-up" view in most circumstances.

We always enjoyed the further out "classic" third person view from Zipper's Socom games. Seeing more of your characters body was, I don't know how to put this, more soothing...a "turn-on" perphaps? Regardless, we'd like to see something more along the lines of our "original" TPS view.

Here we have the "classic" 3rd Person View from Socom 2:

Now here's Confrontations average 3rd person view:

Now, this isn't to say the Confrontation view was HORRIBLE, because it wasn't, BUT, for some reason the camera liked to stay closer up to the character rather than farther off.

Bottom line, Socom 1,2,3 "3rd person" view = YES

Confrontation = "3rd person" view = NO

First Person (Secondary)

Let's make this really simple, because we all know what we're going to say here.

Over the shoulder, a view we all wondered why was implemented in Confrontation as the secondary view. While on the other hand, the beloved first person view was completely rid of. again, WHY! The secondary first person view is absolutely superb.

OTS blocked a majority of the screen and gave for a very awkward viewpoint. Again, on the otherhand, first person secondary gave for a very CLEAR and highly visible view that could easily be toggled in and out of. Zipper again got it right in all their games, so keep it.

Optional

If the OTS view is going to be implemented, then a FPS view needs to be as well. Now, with both included, the option to choose which view will be your secondary needs to be included.

This means whichever secondary you choose, is going to be the only one your character can access. Pretty simple and effective for both crowds.

Overall, keep it original like the older Socoms and if you must, use the option suggestion we've come up with.


MAPS/ENVIRONMENTS

Alright now, this subject has been a large issue that has indeed diminished the value of overall experience to a much lesser degree than we once knew. Environments can make or break a Socom game, and we're going to touch on factors that do such a thing when it comes down to the big picture.

Factors and Keys to Success/Failure of Maps/Environments:

-One Mode Per Map

Socom 1 and 2 did it right. Each and every map was designed specifially for the mode assigned to it's formation and structure. Designers could focus purely on the outcomes/scenarios of the single purpose the map was going to give the audience. Socom 3 abandoned this tactic ( along with Confrontation), giving us less appealing environments, where designers essentially "forced" a mode to work on a map that was designed to attempt working for multiple modes, rather than structuring around the sole purpose of 1 mode. We like 1 map per mode, plain and simple.

-Water

Again, Socom 1 and 2 got it right ( hate to keep bringing up these 2 games but they give great examples ). We don't want to spend a full round searching for a guy swimming underwater in 6 miles of ocean water, it's just not fun. We will compromise with you, however. Water is perfectly fine, IF ( and that's a big IF ) you can keep it toned down to something similar to say "Blood Lake" styled water. Keep the largest depth of water "waist deep", and if you do decide or insist on deeper water, i'd be nice to keep that area to a small area.

-Vehicles

This has been a touchy subject for many, but, overall, they just don't work in Socom. The experience completely changes and ruins the effect of what Socom used to bring to the table. We understand some maps are going to be larger than others, but it's just a feature the community overall has rejected. We got around just fine in Foxhunt:smileyhappy:

-Destructible Environments

From the IGN write up, we know they're going to be destructible, however, we must question, to what extent? Heaven forbid this becomes Battlefield Bad Company, it'd be a sad day in the Socom universe. What we're hoping for is a few interactive spots in every map. Shoot a barrel here, explode a wooden crate there, similar to past Socom's. On the other hand, we understand it's 2010, so you're going to spice it up a bit, but there's a line to be drawn and hopefully it's not crossed. Also, don't take Slant Six's path and assume every map is a Terrorist mine field.

-Interactive Environtments

Zipper nailed this quite well in past Socoms, so here is a small list of examples of what they did and should continue doing:

-Doors = many doors were open and closable in all maps that contained them ( worked very well )

-Lights = lights could be flipped on in certain maps ( example : Enwopi Basement ) ( also shooting out lights )

-Objects = could be flipped on with a switch to be moved ( Chain Reaction- large metal plate could move along side the top)


-Breaching/Opening Breaches = ( Death Trap - all fence breaches could opened from the inside and C4'd from the outside)

                                            

-Airstrikes = could be called on certain maps (Enwopi, Sujo and Sandstorm were a few examples )

-Detonators= example - Crossroads ( Red Room Bridge and Bell Tower Bridge )


-Design

What makes a great Socom map? Ask your level designers from Socom 1 and 2. Socom 3 had some creative ideas as well, but something just didn't click to the degree the "classic" maps did. Socom Confrontation on the other hand, destroyed Zipper's classics and proceeded to be very poor at creating a rememberable and original experience on their attempts.

Furthermore, we need maps that are going to "flow". Yes it does sound a bit simple, but basically that's what it comes down to. a design that can create several paths to travel, while not over complicating anything.

Summary

Zipper, we know you're capable of giving us great environments and maps, we've seen it from you. While we worry of the issue, we must also remember these guys have been working on the game 3 years, and that can only mean more quality. Make us proud Zipper.


MUSIC/SOUNDTRACK

Zipper has chosen without a doubt the best way possible to handle their music in previous games. SOCOM is known for bringing a tear to your eye when hearing those memorable harmonies, sending chills down your spine and giving you a feeling you'll never experience in any other video game. The epic sensation that flows through your body when catching the pulsing, yet soothing, symphony is truly an undescribable feeling that we really can't explain, it's just that good! All they have to do is continue this same process and we'll have back a hell of a soundtrack.

So, how exactly did Zipper touch our inner souls time after time? Simple, seek out the best of the best, with expertise in the field. The following videos will show you exactly what we mean:

The Making of Socom's Muisic:

SOCOM 2- MAKING THE MUSIC

SOCOM 3- MAKING THE MUSIC

Zipper knew what they wanted, they set out a guideline, and they seeked out the best to give us something we'll never forget.

From what we've heard of Socom 4's theme music ( from the trailer ), it sounds as if they've done a GREAT job once again. I guess it's a sigh of releif after hearing a "Tribe Man" beat a drum for Confrontation's soundtrack.


WEAPONS/FIRING/AIMING/ETC

Finally, we arrive to the aspect of Socom that has changed up since the beginning of the series, sadly, for the worse, weapons. When we were first introduced to Socom 1, we had simple, balanced weapons, that were for the most part accurate. A bullet followed the exact path your crosshair lay upon, it was beautiful, almost like magic. Then along came Socom 2, the hit detection was seen as the "worst" of the series, it wasn't as perfect as Socom 1, nevertheless we enjoyed it very much. Then along came Socom 3 aka a casual gamer's paradise.

One thing we as a Socom community have always enjoyed about this game, was the constant struggle to become better. In Socom 1 and 2, you always felt as if your skill could improve, that your gun game could use work or practice. When Socom 3 hit, it was an obvious change, the learning curve had decreased down to that of the casual gamer, instead of staying true to the old "feel" of aiming and shooting your weapon.

The following are a mixture of issues having to do with multiple aspects of the weapon relm:

-Recoil ( Socom 3 and Confrontation really reduced recoil and therefore made the game easier, we think SOCOM should be skill)

-Crosshair Bounce ( somewhat related to recoil, but, Socom 1 and 2's crosshairs we're superb, the bounce needs to come back)

-Magnetic Headshots ( Zipper never had a problem with this, but don't make every other bullet a headshot (cough* slant 6) )

-Magnetic Bullets/Rails ( Again, Zipper never had a problem with this, but don't pull a Confrontation on us )

-Run/Shoot ( This is Socom, not real life, we'd like for the most part, to shoot somewhat accurate while running/strafing)

-Grenades ( Socom 1 got it perfect, hands down. from the throwing, to the meter, power, and amount of grenades allowed )

-Sniping ( This could go into deep deep detail, but to simplify = Take Socom 2's sniping system and upscale it for 2010 )

-Armor (Big NO NO. The playing field should be equal for everyone. If you include armor, make it for show and that's it )

-Perks ( This is not Call of Duty, while we understand the game needs to evolve in some ways, this should be left out )

-Knives ( Some hate them, Some love them, honestly we don't like them, but if you must include them, don't overpower them )

-Encumbrance ( Don't make this too realistic, that's all we ask, since we know it's going to be in the game )

-PMN Mines ( Regardless of how annoying these things can get, we miss them, Confrontation left them out, Zipper didn't )

-Gun Spray ( keep it to a minimum, we'd really like to see a Socom 1/2 syle system used here )

-Fire Rate ( We feel that with fire rate being reduced on most guns to simulate Socom 1 and 2's style, spray will reduce as well )

-Scopes ( Thermal scopes are fine, just don't overpower their power in terms of viewing distance, Socom 2 and 3 nailed it )

-Handguns ( All of Zipper's Socoms had great handguns and applied a good system to go along with it, keep it that way )

-Guns ( We like all of the classic weapons from past games, lots were missed in Confrontation! )

-Claymores ( Ideal in earlier iterations, but in Confrontation they rarely worked and detonator was a hassle to pull out )

-RPGS/M203s ( If you're going to include them, reduce their power and accuracy greatly from past games, no one likes um )

To sum everything up, weapons need BALANCE. Ensure the user that one side isn't overpowered with the better weapons, or even for that matter, that one weapon that's always going to be used due to it's ease to kill with. We'd like weapons to take skill to use, but at the same time are accurate when we've got our crosshairs on an enemies *******.

Gives us the goods Zipper...


GDC GAMEPLAY FEEDBACK

We understand the footage seen in the GDC videos are in the Pre-Alpha stages and also solely a demo from the Single Player, but, we'd like to strongly suggest and leave feedback from what we've seen gameplay wise. We'll be telling you guys what we liked, didn't like, and what we feel should not carry over into Multiplayer.

-First Person Secondary View

We've all made it clear we prefer the first person view for our secondary zoom over the OTS view. We see in the gameplay that sadly it's an OTS view. We're hoping this is solely a single player option and that we'll be able to use the beloved FPS secondary in the Multiplayer aspect ( or even optional for single player ).

Here is an example of why we find it more enjoyable and superior:

YES!

YES!

NO!

NO!

-3rd Person Perspective View

SOCOM 4

SOCOM 2

Again, here, we see the SOCOM 4 view being pushed up, closer to the body. It's more enjoyable being able to see the full body, not cut-off halfway. It'd be really nice to have this fixed, unless it was pushed up simply for the motion control demo. It's simply a turn-off, like mentioned earlier, to see our original 3rd person view "tortured".

-Cover System

We're not going to lie to you Zipper, just about every Loyal Socom Fan you've ever had just lost a lot of faith in this game. While we understand this is just single player, this cover system, if implemented in MP, could and more than likely will be the doom of Socom. It really seems like the core gameplay is becoming more "casual" and less like SOCOM. This element just seems to put us in a state where it's going to completely alter the feel we used to love from Socom 1, 2 and even 3. We're asking please not to implement this into MP.

-Visuals

For pre-alpha visuals are looking pretty good. We're not really worried about this aspect, as we know the graphics are going to be decent enough for us, because we're more for the actual gameplay!

-Movement Speed/Running

Like we've been preaching and preaching, and praying and praying, SPEED IT UP! Ever since Confrontation was released we've had to deal with slow/sluggish gameplay. With Zipper we are really hoping you guys can return to another element that made your Socom games so fun!

Take a look at your iterations of Socom Zipper, and realize that we really do prefer fast movements over the slow, sluggish tactical approach that you seem to be putting more "care" into:

WE LIKE THIS

SOCOM 2 EXAMPLE VIDEO

WE DON'T WANT THIS

SOCOM 4 EXAMPLE VIDEO

-Reloading

No complaints here, reload looks to be nice and speedy, which is a GOOD thing!

-Sprint

*Sigh*, well, looks like it's back and that's not good. Ultimately, the whole commnunity wants it gone. This is all i'm going to say on the matter, please consider taking this out ( and speeding up character movements in the non-sprint mode!)

-Firing

We're hoping that recoil animation was just a pre-alpa "thing", because the "slow-motion-like" firing in the "Zoom" with sloppy recoil just really scares us. To be honest, it seems like a single player only type fire-mode, so hopefully, again, this won't be in the final version, or multiplayer for that matter.

-Motion Controller

This has been confirmed optional, so no complaints here, as most of your hardcore fans here will use the Dualshock ( no offense )

SUMMARY

Alright Zipper, this is how we feel, we're being brutally honest, and we're not trying to put you down as a company, we're simply giving you feedback and we're sure you understand this.

What made Socom so great was it's unique style of gameplay that captivated us. Now, it seems like your drifting further and further away from that  forumula and applying all the elements that have made other "shooter" games popluar in the recent years, and it's simply tearing the series apart and only brings it to a less unique feel, a normal generic shooter.

We are your loyal fans, who have given you 100% support, and it seems that the further down the road we go, the further Zipper pushes away from us, and Casual gamers, who are looking for a cool game to play, are the ones your aiding "MORE" to.

We know you want to expand the series to new people, but why take away elements that your loyal fans love from the series. Those casual gamers are going to play the game until the next good shooter comes out, while we wait, and wait,and wait for Zipper to give us what we've been wanting for so long, a great Socom game that implements a core feel, while still evolving a bit to please casuals, not evolve MORE to the casuals.


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DON'T LET SOCOM DIE ( A PLEA FOR SOCOM 4 )

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SOCOMISM > REALISM

A large factor that played a role in earlier Socom's was it's ability to balance a sense of realism, to make the game feel authentic, like a true Navy Seal experience, but at the same time have lot's of unrealistic elements that gave the game a "Fun" factor. This fun factor that was inserted into Socom is something we like to call "SOCOMISM", elements of Socom that made Socom, well, Socom.

Let's explore this topic further with examples to show exactly what point we're making:

-Character Speed/Movement

In earlier Socom's we had character who had the ability ( WITHOUT A SPRINT BUTTON <<<) to move at a highly fast past, while his/her weapon was in a shooting manner. We could dive down with ease, pop up or get up at a quick pace, and shoot our weapons will doing most of these actions.

Now, Socom Confrontation and from what we've seen of SOCOM 4, have brought more of a "realistic" feel to these actions, with a MAJOR reduction in run speed. We must now gain speed by pressing a SPRINT button, unable to shoot our weapon while sprinting. We don't know much about the dive prone and stand-up quickness for SOCOM 4 yet, but, in Confrontation it was slow and sluggy. These realistic addtions really alter the gameplay for much a less enjoyable experience for a SOCOMer. More emphasis is now being put on REALISM, than actual SOCOMISM ( The fun factor ).

-Encumbrance

This one's pretty simple. Socom 1 and 2 didn't have encumbrance, just a good ol' simple set-up we loved. But, Socom 3 introduced encumbrance, Socom Confrontation tried it, and neither have really nailed it and is just a hassle to think about. Realism was trying to be added, and honestly took away from the game. Keep it simple and use what worked.

-The Cover System

Again, older SOCOMs did not have this feature, no other SOCOM for that matter (obviously). We understand Zipper is trying to appeal to a larger audience, but this factor is just another addition of REALISM that's going to make the game less like SOCOM and more like a casual gamer's "REAL LIFE" shooter. This almost convinces all loyal fans that Sony and Zipper care MORE for the casual gamer than to it's loyal fans, which is dissheartening, but we won't shut them out just yet, we havn't seen the full game nor have we played it.

This is one "Realistic" factor that hopefully is going to stay in the "single player" portion of the game only.

Summary

it's really simple, the more this game cater's to the casual gamer, the more it's going to cater realism. The outcome is a game that seems to leave behind it's loyal fans and the SOCOMISM that made this series.

SOCOMISM > REALISM


LONGJON'S VIDEO UPDATES (NEW APRIL 23rd)

I've stumbled across a fellow SOCOMER who without a doubt speaks from the heart and soul of a true knowledgeable user of the SOCOM series. Like this thread, his opinions are deep and worthy expressions and examples that I believe we need to take note of (And Zipper ). If there was a SOCOM sermon to attend, he'd be the pastor, so here he shall have his own dedicated section in this thread to give us testimonies of SOCOM that'll have you saying AMEM over and over again! Preach on brotha'.

4/23/2010

LongJon's Podcast Response ( NEW )

3/13/2010

LongJon Responds To Users On A Few Matters

3/12/2010

Video 1 ( LongJon's Thought's On SOCOM 4 )

Video 2 (LongJon's Thought's Continued)

Video 3 ( LongJon's Thought's FINAL )


SUPPORT VIDEO

DON'T LET SOCOM DIE!!


THREADS THAT WE LIKE:

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Why Socom 4 is not a Socom US Navy Seals game

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http://forums.socom.com/socom/board/message?board.id=socom4&thread.id=31038Classic 3rd Person/FPS Secondary ( Actual Animation GIFs)

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http://forums.socom.com/t5/SOCOM-4/Zipper-Please-add-classic-view/m-p/648642/highlight/false#M36468Jeremy, I'd Like To Hear Your Expertise On Something

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SOCOM 4 ( Background Gameplay )  In Move Commercial

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MOVE COMMERCIAL <<<

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Alright, just a few hours after it's release, speculations are already flying around the forums on the debate of the supposed "sped up" character speed in the background gameplay seen in Sony's new "Move" commercial with Kevin Butler ( which by the way is a P-I-M-P).

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At the 1:01-1:02 mark of the video we see the character throw a sideways grenade, which then he proceeds to pick up speed, starting near 1:03-1:04. In the next 2-3 seconds we see the character speed looking to us, "PERFECT", he's running nice and fast just like old SOCOMs, non of that sluggish, slow movement. Then he slows down and comes to a halt and starts "ripping-face" again.

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Anyways, the question is, was this true movement from the gameplay? or an enhanced "fast forward" to speed up the video in the editing process of the commercial?

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Honestly, there seems to be no logical reason why editors would speed up a random 2-3 seconds in a background gameplay portion of a commercial, but, who knows?

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Whatever it may be Zipper, that 2-3 seconds ( from roughly 1:03-1:06 ) is the IDEAL speed we've been asking for ever since you're brief departure, where Slant Six gave us "slug-bug" style movement.

That's a large reason for the series success ( Socom 1, 2, and 3's speed )

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True Navy Seal Vibe 

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Ever since since Confrontation was released, we've really lost the feeling and "vibe" of being apart of a "NAVY SEAL" experience, in our opinion. It seems developers get the idea that SOCOMers want more factions, not just seals and terrorist ( or mercenaries ), and it's obvious, with Confrontation releasing several factions alongside Seals.

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In fact, so many other factions were included, that the Navy Seal "feel" of the game was ultimately lost. Now, we've heard in an interview that more factions will be added to Socom 4, and this is worrisome, knowing that potentially that Navy Seal vibe could once again be lost.

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Here we have a video ( split into 2 parts ) that you guys, (Zipper), included in your very first SOCOM game. Keep in mind, this is the feeling that really gets our hearts pumping:

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SOCOM US NAVY SEALS Documentary Part 1

SOCOM US NAVY SEALS Documentary Part 2

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Remember guys, SOCOM "US NAVY SEALS"

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PUBLIC/PRIVATE BETA FEEDBACK

TO BE ANNOUNCED / DATED

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STAY TUNED FOR DAILY UPDATES!

GT5 FTW !

PSN : Stackcluster
Holy crap !   That's the blueprint for an epic game !    It will never work.
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Fender Bender
Registered: 10/04/2007
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 7, 2011

When I first saw this commercial , I knew I had to buy this game. So, I went to Wal-Mart and bought the game by itself because they did not have the bundle. Then I played the game over the course of one weekend and beat it and instantly feel in love with it. Next, I had to buy the online adapter for my PS2. I search and searched for one and could not find one. So, I gave up my search and continued to play this game and others until Socom II hit the shelves.

When Socom II came out, I bought the adapter and the mic and my life changed forever. I started out with a clan called (ST6) - Clan Leader Dark_Elk and we played this game for hours on end. It was awesome! I made so many online friends during this time that I still am in contact with (not many games can make as many friends as this game did). Not only did we play S2, we went back and played S1 for nostalgic sake. Soon, I would leave this clan and go with (CSD) - Clan Leader *Dad*, and eventually merged with - Clan Leader 2Kill.

When S3 hit the shelves, most people were disappointed with the integration of vehicles, however, I liked them. It brought a new aspect to the game. However, I still wanted the face-to-face combat and I would soon get my wish with Combined Assault (w / 3 map packs). CA turned out to be my favorite game of the series. We, played that game non-stop for a few years on a nightly basis. I would estimate at least 2 - 3 hours a night of game play. No other series could match that in my opinion.

Then Confrontation was announced for the PS3. Still 6 months from release, I went out and bought a new HDTV and a PS3 just for SOCOM. I could not afford to buy these items, but I had to because there was a new Socom coming out (this is something that young kids can and will not ever understand). So, the game hit the shelves and I was disappointed with the series truly for the first time. I tried to play the game, but it just was not SOCOM, it felt like a cookie-cutter design of other games that I hated. So, I quit playing the game for 6 months and waited for changes to be made. Eventually, I would come back and TUF would merge with - Clan leader - xX_El_Diablo_Xx, and I gave the game a shot. It was okay and tolerable after patches were made. But the game never felt like a SOCOM game until the map pack, Cold Front was released. Then this game became a game that was decent and we played those maps every night until the release of S4.

I was one of the first people in the S4 private beta and from day 1 I hated this game. This was not SOCOM! It had ranked respawns and classic was not classic. I hated it, plain and simple. Yet, after the game was released we (clan) played the game, but there were so much wrong with Classic Mode that it simply turned me off on playing that mode entirely. The maps were obviously made for respawn and they were not good for classic mode. Therefore, for the first time in this series I only played respawn and that is all I play now.

Finally, even though the last two games have been horrible, I still love the series overall. For me, I created friendships that will last a lifetime. Some from 9 years ago, other from 6 months ago. Either way, Socom was apart of my life and I do not regret one single moment of it. This franchise helped me overcome the loss of a marriage, the loss of a child, and the loss of family members. Can any other game say that?

**I'm a SOCOMER, not a gamer**

**SOCOM is OFFICIALLY DEAD - INSERT SAD FACE**

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Sackboy
Registered: 03/18/2009
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 7, 2011

Great post!

A buddy got me hip to S1..once I bought the adapter (which was a pain to locate!!) I was hooked!!

I also bought a PS3, just for Socom Con...and was let down at first...it got better, still has it's issue.

I don't know who's worse, Zipper/Sony or the blind/misguided fanbags they have spawned. See what I did there? hahaha I kill me! lol

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Gaming Beast
Registered: 10/19/2010
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 7, 2011

Coldfront all the way, that is what made me fall in love with Con. all Coldfront all the time.

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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 09/21/2009
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135 posts
 

Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 7, 2011

ok gona have to agree with king gilly he said it all just listen this time please

        (WHY SHOULD I GO TO JAIL TO PROTECT YOUR FREEDOM YOU SHOULD GO TO JAIL;TO PROTECT MINE)

                  LARYY FLINT VS THE UNITED STATES

YEA I REMEMBER YOUR POST ABOUT FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND THE WARNING I GOT BECUASE YOU DIDNT LIKE MY OPINOIN

         still think you dont have a clue about free speech

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Gaming Beast
Registered: 10/12/2009
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Re: Why SOCOM?

Sep 7, 2011

FROST_420 wrote:

Coldfront all the way, that is what made me fall in love with Con. all Coldfront all the time.

Sig.
Hurry up and bring back Slant Six, we want Confrontation 2.

wow...this is where i will use a Tomb line....You must not have played s1 and 2 becuase the clasic maps in Coldfront were a disgrace to the classic maps they copied in s1 and 2

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