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Ghost of Sparta
Registered: 09/11/2003
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Re: IF THERE EVER IS ANOTHER SOCOM, SONY DON'T LISTEN TO THE FANBOYS ON HERE.....

Dec 18, 2012

TOMBSTONE4U wrote:

FROST_420 wrote:

TOMBSTONE4U wrote:

icEdeMoN_EliTe wrote:

Execrate wrote:

What other online games could you play online at the launch of s2?


Good question, Id like to know the answer.                                                                                                                                                          


Not any that had that many maps (which were mostly all great and more then half still considered some of the best classics in the series to this day), none that had all those feature sets both in game and community. You can find many though that have more and better maps then what CON offers, a campaign, similar community and in game features.

 

Competition has a much easier time beating you when you only offer 1/3rd the content you did with slow clunky gameplay. The Socom 4 announcement threads as well as reviews for CON on sites like Amazon show that the game and it's poor offering pushed people away, competition didn't pull people away. I know exactly where they are coming from cause I am one of the many who felt the exact same way and passed on CON for that exact same reason.


Maybe if you "paused" at 3 you would have been desperate enough to work your way through Con's broken release and fundamental changes like some of us:smileywink:  All in all, I'm glad I did because of all the shooters I tried for the PS3, Con is the best hands down.


There was really no need for CON if you had a PS 2 and the classics still. Why play downgraded versions of classic maps with exploding barrels all over the place and a small over all selection of maps with less interactivity when you could still pop in S2 and play the better versions with 22 map medley, << it had 22 maps, but you cant expect a new game on a new system to come with 22 maps.  or even a new game on the same system to come with 22 maps.  if /6 were to make a con 2 THEN i would expect the maps from con along with new maps. 12 plus lets say 7 for a total of 19 maps. you just cant say socom 2 was built with 22 maps and con was built with 7 because thats not how it really was.  a concept uh oh cant grasp.  jump climb, and the interactivity? Back when CON was releasing I was still playing PS 2 Socoms regularly and didn't feel like I was missing out at all. << i was playing socom 1. After trying out CON, it was nice to go back to a game where I could lean and throw with both arms again, jump on the DG broken patio, the FF boxes, or plant a mine in a doorway again and be able to close that door to conceal it and set the trap, or to drop mines near a satchel when I am outnumbered in demo to try to get their numbers down a bit without worrying that it's going to magically respawn if they don't come for it right away.<<< i like the respawning bomb. i have seen clans take the bomb and place it in glitches way to many times during socom 2.  i know i saw it dropped under the fish market at least once a night. on socom 1 i saw it dropped on the moon several times on night stalker, it would have happened more if it wasnt for the fact 1/2 the time it booted the room when it was touched.


 

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Umbrella Scientist
Registered: 02/19/2003
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Re: IF THERE EVER IS ANOTHER SOCOM, SONY DON'T LISTEN TO THE FANBOYS ON HERE.....

Dec 18, 2012

S_L_I_C_K wrote:

TOMBSTONE4U wrote:

FROST_420 wrote:

TOMBSTONE4U wrote:

icEdeMoN_EliTe wrote:

Execrate wrote:

What other online games could you play online at the launch of s2?


Good question, Id like to know the answer.                                                                                                                                                          


Not any that had that many maps (which were mostly all great and more then half still considered some of the best classics in the series to this day), none that had all those feature sets both in game and community. You can find many though that have more and better maps then what CON offers, a campaign, similar community and in game features.

 

Competition has a much easier time beating you when you only offer 1/3rd the content you did with slow clunky gameplay. The Socom 4 announcement threads as well as reviews for CON on sites like Amazon show that the game and it's poor offering pushed people away, competition didn't pull people away. I know exactly where they are coming from cause I am one of the many who felt the exact same way and passed on CON for that exact same reason.


Maybe if you "paused" at 3 you would have been desperate enough to work your way through Con's broken release and fundamental changes like some of us:smileywink:  All in all, I'm glad I did because of all the shooters I tried for the PS3, Con is the best hands down.


There was really no need for CON if you had a PS 2 and the classics still. Why play downgraded versions of classic maps with exploding barrels all over the place and a small over all selection of maps with less interactivity when you could still pop in S2 and play the better versions with 22 map medley, << it had 22 maps, but you cant expect a new game on a new system to come with 22 maps.  or even a new game on the same system to come with 22 maps.  if /6 were to make a con 2 THEN i would expect the maps from con along with new maps. 12 plus lets say 7 for a total of 19 maps. you just cant say socom 2 was built with 22 maps and con was built with 7 because thats not how it really was.  a concept uh oh cant grasp.  jump climb, and the interactivity? Back when CON was releasing I was still playing PS 2 Socoms regularly and didn't feel like I was missing out at all. << i was playing socom 1. After trying out CON, it was nice to go back to a game where I could lean and throw with both arms again, jump on the DG broken patio, the FF boxes, or plant a mine in a doorway again and be able to close that door to conceal it and set the trap, or to drop mines near a satchel when I am outnumbered in demo to try to get their numbers down a bit without worrying that it's going to magically respawn if they don't come for it right away.<<< i like the respawning bomb. i have seen clans take the bomb and place it in glitches way to many times during socom 2.  i know i saw it dropped under the fish market at least once a night. on socom 1 i saw it dropped on the moon several times on night stalker, it would have happened more if it wasnt for the fact 1/2 the time it booted the room when it was touched.


 


I would agree with you on the S2 issues if S2 maps were just piggybacked on the S1 maps the way CA did with S3 with virtually no changes (I actually would have preferred them to do it that way to cause they ruined some maps in S2 lol). But they actually went back to the maps and worked on them to make changes. I would also say that if they didn't spend their time working on 32 player versions of maps they'd have time to provide more small maps even if not 22. I'd rather have a game that has 12 maps out of the box all 8 vs 8 then 7 maps with expansions to them so that more people can play on the map.

 

As for Socom 1 I went back and forth between S1 and S2 alot cause I liked S1 hit detection but S2 had a lot more features and maps like CR, Fishhook, Foxhunt and the mixer that I had to get my fix in on. People bash Socom 2 cause of the hit detection, they forget that's a bug not a feature and that's not what people are asking for in an HD remake. Some of it wasn't even the hit detection itself but bad framerates and lag that amplified the problem of shooting a guy who appears to be in one place on your screen but it really somewhere else.

 


As far as satchels being put in glitches I guess you had really bad luck lol. I played thousands of demo matches and could probably count on one hand the amount of times we determined the guy with the satchel was hiding in a glitch at then end. I'd say that I'd run into a guy at least once a night who was hiding with the satchel on the bell tower ladder but nothing remotely close to that as far as frequency of guys being in a glitch with it. Most guys who wanted to glitch were smart enough to run right for the glitch and not spend time getting the satchel cause most people were wise to the glitches and rushed to glitch hot spots to kill anyone trying to get in early in rounds.I don't want glitches for excuses either on why we can't have features or why we have to remove tactics from the game. You don't make respawning satchels simply cause guys might take them into a glitch, you work harder on testing the maps and making sure they are solid without a bunch of soft spots. As someone who played CR often in its single map room cause it was my favorite map in Socom 2, if the problem was anywhere on the level you're stating I wouldn't have been able to tolerate playing that map cause I had little patience for cheaters. Glitchers in CR more often would be found in glitches without the satchel rather then with from my experience.

Sig: Socom 1 and 2 best games I've played on any console.
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Fender Bender
Registered: 09/03/2009
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Re: IF THERE EVER IS ANOTHER SOCOM, SONY DON'T LISTEN TO THE FANBOYS ON HERE.....

Dec 18, 2012

Was there an answer anywhere in any of that?

 

What other game could you play online at the s2 launch?

___________________________________________________________
I backed H-Hour ! Why because I would rather play a game then run my mouth on a forum.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1687497632/h-hour-worlds-elite-0






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Umbrella Scientist
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Re: IF THERE EVER IS ANOTHER SOCOM, SONY DON'T LISTEN TO THE FANBOYS ON HERE.....

Dec 18, 2012

Execrate wrote:

Was there an answer anywhere in any of that?

 

What other game could you play online at the s2 launch?


More importantly then that, what games could you play after S2 was already out and the hype was already worn. Halo 2 came out a year after S2 was out and didn't even put a dent in the nightly community numbers. Halo was the big name shooter with all the respawn glory anyone could ever ask for if it was truly of a matter of people just waiting for a respawn option to ditch Socom and even as a brand new game launching in Halo 2 against a game in Socom 2 that was old news and already out for a year, Halo 2 could not draw the community away.

 

When I first tried COD 2 online I didn't like it so I didn't play it, had nothing to do with competition. When the first Advanced Warfighter game hit, there wasn't much competition for that either and Socom wasn't new anymore. Thought the game sucked and didn't play it after a couple tries. When new games and competition did come even though they were new and different it didn't stop Socom from being the flagship online franchise. If people were just waiting for any competition to jump ship they had those options, they chose to stick with the Socoms that had already been out and didn't care about the new options cause that was simply the game they liked to play. You can add BF 2 for the PS 2 to that list of games that came out and never drew in much of a community and was still being beat out by the older Socom games.

 

Now when you offer a 7 map only game missing half the features that made up that type of gameplay and changed the formula that made it addictive for so many people, now you don't have that same leverage anymore. Now many people who were into Socom can easily put the current crap down for the latest shooter on the market where as they didn't all just jump to the latest shooters on the PS 2 versions.

 

 

But by all means go ahead. Continue to try to tell the people who played them all why they didn't buy the later ones when you weren't there and have nothing to compare to. As a guy who bought it and is a fanboy of it surely you must better know what's going on in the minds of people who didn't buy it or how they came to that decision not to lol.

Sig: Socom 1 and 2 best games I've played on any console.
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Fender Bender
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Re: IF THERE EVER IS ANOTHER SOCOM, SONY DON'T LISTEN TO THE FANBOYS ON HERE.....

[ Edited ]
Dec 18, 2012

 

Not having a what game is better debate again.

It had no competition at all.  Most sales were SP only. Then you had a ton of SP players joking around  playing pistols only and whatever.

 

The same amount of true players were on con.  The only difference is there were no story only sales and less jokers. Respawn players had no options back then when con came out the had TONS. Con had the most competitive players out of all socoms.

 

Maybe s2 peek numbers lasted longer but then again it did not have compettion. Everybody took a con break for cod for a litte bit.

 

A million sales for a hardcore game is very good. If they put it out on psn a million sales is excellent. Either style day one for me.

 

___________________________________________________________
I backed H-Hour ! Why because I would rather play a game then run my mouth on a forum.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1687497632/h-hour-worlds-elite-0






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Umbrella Scientist
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Re: IF THERE EVER IS ANOTHER SOCOM, SONY DON'T LISTEN TO THE FANBOYS ON HERE.....

[ Edited ]
Dec 19, 2012

Execrate wrote:

 

Not having a what game is better debate again.

It had no competition at all.  Most sales were SP only. Then you had a ton of SP players joking around  playing pistols only and whatever.

 

The same amount of true players were on con.  The only difference is there were no story only sales and less jokers. Respawn players had no options back then when con came out the had TONS. Con had the most competitive players out of all socoms.

 

Maybe s2 peek numbers lasted longer but then again it did not have compettion. Everybody took a con break for cod for a litte bit.

 

A million sales for a hardcore game is very good. If they put it out on psn a million sales is excellent. Either style day one for me.

 


For anyone who looks at the game and doesn't just see the name Socom and drool like a sheep, content matters and plays a big factor in wether people will stick with the game. Socom 2 may have sold a lot cause of SP but guess what, CON also saw more sales then it should have got because people who didn't follow closely assumed it was going to have a Socom campaign and got rid of it as soon as they realized it wasn't there. Go read through those Amazon reviews and look how many complaints there were from people about finding that out once getting the game. So I could just as easily argue that CON saw a spike it shouldn't have had from people unwittingly buying it expecting a full Socom game who ditched the game making it's already bad numbers look worse. Not to mention Socom CON was the first place the official Sony headset was available and was bought by many who saw it as a headset with a free game and didn't even get it for the game. Evidence of that very clearly seen all over the comments of the official PS 3 headset announcement.

 

 

Now, to you guys who say "oh 7 maps, 22 maps, wouldn't make a difference, more features doesn't matter..it's Socom so it would sell the same with just 1 map" lol here's a very simple little example I'm going to give you on how content does in fact matter in people's buying decision. If right now I take 100 people who don't have CON and say you have only two game options and they are both CON. The stack of games on the left is CON with it's 7 launch maps, the stack of games on the right is CON with the 7 maps and the 5 cold front maps included on the disc. I will bet that 100 out of 100 people buy the game with thew 5 extra DLC maps and not a single one of them says "7 maps, 12 maps, doesn't matter it's Socom" lol.

 

 

P.S. Stop with your "the true" comments cause over 20 k on daily wasn't casual players just playing as their only option, and according to a previous post of yours you didn't even meet your clan in a Socom game you met them in Rainbow 6 Vegas which was a long time after Socom was around lol. According to you the true were playing Socom 4, in other words the true to you are the ones who accepted a Socom game that released with 0 Socom in it. The fact that you defended a game with no Socom in it and argued against people who wanted all the Socom features and have far more Socom matches played then you in the franchise says you are far from "the true" lol.

Sig: Socom 1 and 2 best games I've played on any console.
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Fender Bender
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Re: IF THERE EVER IS ANOTHER SOCOM, SONY DON'T LISTEN TO THE FANBOYS ON HERE.....

Dec 19, 2012

You avoided the question over and over what was it competition it had none.

20k out of 3 million sales is NOTHING... WRX alreay said your numbers are wrong any.way

20K just goes to show you how many people were SP players only.

20 k with no competition....

 

We want the same thing but I know that won't sell. It would cost to much to make a story and only cater to hardcore for the mp.

___________________________________________________________
I backed H-Hour ! Why because I would rather play a game then run my mouth on a forum.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1687497632/h-hour-worlds-elite-0






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Umbrella Scientist
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Re: IF THERE EVER IS ANOTHER SOCOM, SONY DON'T LISTEN TO THE FANBOYS ON HERE.....

Dec 19, 2012

Execrate wrote:

You avoided the question over and over what was it competition it had none.

20k out of 3 million sales is NOTHING... WRX alreay said your numbers are wrong any.way

20K just goes to show you how many people were SP players only.

20 k with no competition....

 

We want the same thing but I know that won't sell. It would cost to much to make a story and only cater to hardcore for the mp.


Well look it at it from this angle. Socom 2 at it's highest point that I saw had a community close to 30 k for most of it's life cycle (down to low 20's in the games later stages) but let's say the average was 25 k per night. if you include the full life cycle (it wasn't 30 to 33k for the whole life cycle like some have tried to say). Now Socom 2 at it's highest point had about 700 k unique user names on the leaderboards. That means that of the 3 million who bought it only 700 k ever took it online (and thats going high end cause in PS 2 Socoms it was so easy and fast to make a new name that many people used multiple accounts to play), and that was able to generate a community of 25 k nightly peak number consistently. Now if you take CON which sold a little over a million copies and the fact that as an online only game it had a 12 k average peak number that means the S2 community only needed 700k to maintain an MP community twice the size of CONs community. CON needed more overall players for online play to maintain a much smaller community so that in itself would indicate people didn't like CON as much as the old games and didn't stick with it.

 

 

I think an S2 like game would sell a lot better then a CON or an S4. Probably not a Socom 2 remake cause new people would be turned off at the idea of playing a PS 2 game but if they made a PS 3 Socom with all the Socom features that the PS 2 classics had there would  be literally no competition at all for such a game. This generation lacks a really great third person shooter. Most games this gen all borrow the clunky zoomed in OTS crap and just that alone turns off a lot of third person fans. I mean you guys make the competition argument but then you turn around and say a completely unique Socom can't work today and that we need to copy and paste the other games features and make then into competition to sell? Makes no sense.

Sig: Socom 1 and 2 best games I've played on any console.
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Gaming Beast
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Re: IF THERE EVER IS ANOTHER SOCOM, SONY DON'T LISTEN TO THE FANBOYS ON HERE.....

[ Edited ]
Dec 19, 2012

TOMBSTONE4U wrote:

FROST_420 wrote:

TOMBSTONE4U wrote:

icEdeMoN_EliTe wrote:

Execrate wrote:

What other online games could you play online at the launch of s2?


Good question, Id like to know the answer.                                                                                                                                                          


Not any that had that many maps (which were mostly all great and more then half still considered some of the best classics in the series to this day), none that had all those feature sets both in game and community. You can find many though that have more and better maps then what CON offers, a campaign, similar community and in game features.

 

Competition has a much easier time beating you when you only offer 1/3rd the content you did with slow clunky gameplay. The Socom 4 announcement threads as well as reviews for CON on sites like Amazon show that the game and it's poor offering pushed people away, competition didn't pull people away. I know exactly where they are coming from cause I am one of the many who felt the exact same way and passed on CON for that exact same reason.


Maybe if you "paused" at 3 you would have been desperate enough to work your way through Con's broken release and fundamental changes like some of us:smileywink:  All in all, I'm glad I did because of all the shooters I tried for the PS3, Con is the best hands down.


There was really no need for CON if you had a PS 2 and the classics still. Why play downgraded versions of classic maps with exploding barrels all over the place and a small over all selection of maps with less interactivity when you could still pop in S2 and play the better versions with 22 map medley,  jump climb, and the interactivity? Back when CON was releasing I was still playing PS 2 Socoms regularly and didn't feel like I was missing out at all. After trying out CON, it was nice to go back to a game where I could lean and throw with both arms again, jump on the DG broken patio, the FF boxes, or plant a mine in a doorway again and be able to close that door to conceal it and set the trap, or to drop mines near a satchel when I am outnumbered in demo to try to get their numbers down a bit without worrying that it's going to magically respawn if they don't come for it right away.


That's my point you still can jump to climb just not anywhere, you still can get  on boxes/containers. As for mines, I would rather set c-mores at the satchel and detonate when I see someone going for it. Sure Con is only half a SOCOM game but that's all it was meant to be, just a little snack for the community until Zipper returned, people seem to forget this.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: IF THERE EVER IS ANOTHER SOCOM, SONY DON'T LISTEN TO THE FANBOYS ON HERE.....

Dec 20, 2012
This post reminded me of the older forum debates we used to have on here. lol

http://www.socomfan.com/
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