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Wastelander
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Re: Should RPGs be Shorter?

Jan 22, 2013

Backtracking / fetch quests / grinding are RPG staples. Always have been & always will be.

 

People whine if a game is too short, now they whine if its too long.

They whine ..... just to whine

 

 

"Stupidity is a disease, and we have an epidemic on our hands"
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Re: Should RPGs be Shorter?

Jan 22, 2013

Brozz65 wrote:

Backtracking / fetch quests / grinding are RPG staples. Always have been & always will be.

 

People whine if a game is too short, now they whine if its too long.

They whine ..... just to whine

 

 


What they mean is a long game is not really a long game if they padded it out with useless unrelated stuff, and that's not whining, that's just expressing their opinion. There's a difference between criticism, expressing one's opinion and whining.

Yes, backtracking, fetch quests, grinding are inevitable in most RPG, they are actually a nice diversion, but when done in moderation. Try to play Lunar DS for fetch quests, tales of Legendia for backtracking and dragon quest for grinding, you'll know what's too much is too much.

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Re: Should RPGs be Shorter?

Jan 22, 2013

I tend to base an RPG's worth off of a few factors. The first, obviously, is the game's story. Another factor for me is content (quests & exploration) There are a few other minor factors, but they aren't relevant. Depending the story plus content, I expect to get a minimum of 50 hours out of my RPGs.

 

My favorite RPGs rarely clock in under 100 hours. This includes the story line of course. In my opinion (when it comes to RPGs especially) if you can finish the game in less than 50 hours, then it's not really much of a game and not worth full purchase price or it was a rip off. I've seen people talk about speed plays. They want to see how fast they can finish the game. Final Fantasy IX had a special sword you could get if you go to that point in less than 12 hours (I believe). I can't do it. It takes the fun out of the game for me. Even when I was going for the Platinum in Persona 4: Golden, my 3rd run still took me 40 hours to get the last 2 Trophies I needed. I put in almost 300 hours in total playing Persona 4: Golden.

 

I know time is more valuable for most people than it is for me. I like to explore various aspects of a game. Like Persona fusion in Persona 3 and 4. Or side quests in games. You can often learn more about your teammates with these side quests. Like in the Mass Effect series you can undertake certain quests for your teammates and get some background on them. Such as learning about Jacob's father in Mass Effect 2, or learn more about the Ardat-Yakshi in Mass Effect 3 by going to the monastary on Lessus. In Persona 3 and 4 you build social links with people. These are small mini stories that add to the game.

 

Even if you strip away most of the extra content in a game, I fully expect a minimum of 40 hours to complete any RPG I play. Part of this is story, part of this is exploration (finding items needed to advance the story or finding your way to the next cave, dungeon or town to advance the story) and a basic amount of leveling. Anything less than that and I feel like it was a waste of time and effort. Especially if the game is a basic RPG like Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky. 

 

I don't want my RPGs to be shorter. I want them to be longer. More in depth stories. Better character development (story wise). Crafting. Exploration.  Quests. That's why I'm excited about Ni No Kuni. I doubt I'll put less than a hundred hours into it before I'm done.

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Re: Should RPGs be Shorter?

Jan 22, 2013

kknd2002 wrote:

Brozz65 wrote:

Backtracking / fetch quests / grinding are RPG staples. Always have been & always will be.

 

People whine if a game is too short, now they whine if its too long.

They whine ..... just to whine

 

 


What they mean is a long game is not really a long game if they padded it out with useless unrelated stuff, and that's not whining, that's just expressing their opinion. There's a difference between criticism, expressing one's opinion and whining.

Yes, backtracking, fetch quests, grinding are inevitable in most RPG, they are actually a nice diversion, but when done in moderation. Try to play Lunar DS for fetch quests, tales of Legendia for backtracking and dragon quest for grinding, you'll know what's too much is too much.


I've never felt like Dragon Quest was grind heavy. WoW was really fetch quest heavy with little main storyline to it, which really bit seeing as how I had just come off a story heavy FF XI MMO. Devil Survivor Overclocked on the other hand was a bit grind heavy for me. I needed to do a lot of fighting to gain money to buy demons to fuse. Great game, but too many extra battles n my opinion. I don't usually mind grinding too much. Except when I'm trying to get an uber rare drop to craft an item.

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Re: Should RPGs be Shorter?

Jan 22, 2013

kknd2002 wrote:

Brozz65 wrote:

Backtracking / fetch quests / grinding are RPG staples. Always have been & always will be.

 

People whine if a game is too short, now they whine if its too long.

They whine ..... just to whine

 

 


What they mean is a long game is not really a long game if they padded it out with useless unrelated stuff, and that's not whining, that's just expressing their opinion. There's a difference between criticism, expressing one's opinion and whining.

Yes, backtracking, fetch quests, grinding are inevitable in most RPG, they are actually a nice diversion, but when done in moderation. Try to play Lunar DS for fetch quests, tales of Legendia for backtracking and dragon quest for grinding, you'll know what's too much is too much.


One thing that really ticked me off about Lunar: Dragon Song was that you were penalized for running. What the hell is that? I'm guessing it was to make you progress through the game slower but I don't know because I quit playing. It didn't feel like Lunar at all.

 

In terms of grinding, I don't mind so long as I enjoy the battle system. Grandia was fun grinding because you had to keep using the same spell/skill to increase it's damage. Dragon Warrior 7 has the most basic of basic combat but the class system made me want to keep fighting. There was a carrot on a stick. I won't grind for items for crafting and usually avoid item creation at all costs.

 

Dragon Warrior 7 is the only JRPG I've spent 100+ hours on. JRPGs last me 40-65 hours where western RPGs like Elder Scrolls and Fallout always go 100+.

 

 

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Re: Should RPGs be Shorter?

Jan 23, 2013

PapaWarlock wrote:

kknd2002 wrote:

Brozz65 wrote:

Backtracking / fetch quests / grinding are RPG staples. Always have been & always will be.

 

People whine if a game is too short, now they whine if its too long.

They whine ..... just to whine

 

 


What they mean is a long game is not really a long game if they padded it out with useless unrelated stuff, and that's not whining, that's just expressing their opinion. There's a difference between criticism, expressing one's opinion and whining.

Yes, backtracking, fetch quests, grinding are inevitable in most RPG, they are actually a nice diversion, but when done in moderation. Try to play Lunar DS for fetch quests, tales of Legendia for backtracking and dragon quest for grinding, you'll know what's too much is too much.


I've never felt like Dragon Quest was grind heavy. WoW was really fetch quest heavy with little main storyline to it, which really bit seeing as how I had just come off a story heavy FF XI MMO. Devil Survivor Overclocked on the other hand was a bit grind heavy for me. I needed to do a lot of fighting to gain money to buy demons to fuse. Great game, but too many extra battles n my opinion. I don't usually mind grinding too much. Except when I'm trying to get an uber rare drop to craft an item.


Ya, I should put earlier Dragon Quest games instead as they get less grind heavy as the series evolve, yes, Devil Survivor is another exemple of padding the game with mendatory grinding, like around day 5 to day 7 (could be off by a day), depending on the path chosen there are spots that requires lots of grinding.

I have absolutely no patience when it comes to drop grinding lol, it could be as bad as a game breaker for me.

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Re: Should RPGs be Shorter?

Jan 23, 2013

W1Z4RDRY wrote:

kknd2002 wrote:

Brozz65 wrote:

Backtracking / fetch quests / grinding are RPG staples. Always have been & always will be.

 

People whine if a game is too short, now they whine if its too long.

They whine ..... just to whine

 

 


What they mean is a long game is not really a long game if they padded it out with useless unrelated stuff, and that's not whining, that's just expressing their opinion. There's a difference between criticism, expressing one's opinion and whining.

Yes, backtracking, fetch quests, grinding are inevitable in most RPG, they are actually a nice diversion, but when done in moderation. Try to play Lunar DS for fetch quests, tales of Legendia for backtracking and dragon quest for grinding, you'll know what's too much is too much.


One thing that really ticked me off about Lunar: Dragon Song was that you were penalized for running. What the hell is that? I'm guessing it was to make you progress through the game slower but I don't know because I quit playing. It didn't feel like Lunar at all.

 

In terms of grinding, I don't mind so long as I enjoy the battle system. Grandia was fun grinding because you had to keep using the same spell/skill to increase it's damage. Dragon Warrior 7 has the most basic of basic combat but the class system made me want to keep fighting. There was a carrot on a stick. I won't grind for items for crafting and usually avoid item creation at all costs.

 

Dragon Warrior 7 is the only JRPG I've spent 100+ hours on. JRPGs last me 40-65 hours where western RPGs like Elder Scrolls and Fallout always go 100+.


To sum in up, everything that could go wrong in Lunar DS went wrong lol, I intent to go back one day to finish it up (I think I gave up like after 2h), but not in the foreseeable future. I actually don't mind grinding either, I meant a 60h game is not a 60h game if you spend 40h grinding, I grinded a lot in games like etrian odyssey and shin megami tensei and yes a good battle system makes a whole lot of difference in terms of grinding. As for DW7, I have to go back and finish that sucker :smileytongue:, I stopped playing around the part where you got to a town with petrified villagers (probably still quite early in the game :smileytongue: )

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Re: Should RPGs be Shorter?

Jan 23, 2013

kknd2002 wrote:


To sum in up, everything that could go wrong in Lunar DS went wrong lol, I intent to go back one day to finish it up (I think I gave up like after 2h), but not in the foreseeable future. I actually don't mind grinding either, I meant a 60h game is not a 60h game if you spend 40h grinding, I grinded a lot in games like etrian odyssey and shin megami tensei and yes a good battle system makes a whole lot of difference in terms of grinding. As for DW7, I have to go back and finish that sucker :smileytongue:, I stopped playing around the part where you got to a town with petrified villagers (probably still quite early in the game :smileytongue: )


Good combat makes a difference in grinding, as well as having things to look forward to. Grinding out 4 levels just for some extra hp/mp to squeeze by a boss sucks. I finished up SMT: Devil Survivor Overclocked's Day 8 last night (one ending at any rate) and the only reason I beat the last boss was because he killed himself by attacking my last standing character who had Repel Phys on. I probably spent the better part of an hour on that one fight, constantly Recarm and Draining MP to stay in the fight. Great story. DIfficult fight :smileyvery-happy:

 

I think I'd finished about half the game before losing it somehow. I keep waiting for SE to release it on the PSN only to learn it's now a 3DS game. I seriously hope that it does get released here. I will snatch that sucka up in a flash :smileyvery-happy: It does seem odd though that it was previously a PS exclusive but now it's on Nintendo. /shrug/ Oh well. I have the 3DS (and the Vita) so I'm good to go. I can get all the good ones that make it here, regardless of what it's on.

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Re: Should RPGs be Shorter?

Jan 25, 2013

PapaWarlock wrote:

kknd2002 wrote:


To sum in up, everything that could go wrong in Lunar DS went wrong lol, I intent to go back one day to finish it up (I think I gave up like after 2h), but not in the foreseeable future. I actually don't mind grinding either, I meant a 60h game is not a 60h game if you spend 40h grinding, I grinded a lot in games like etrian odyssey and shin megami tensei and yes a good battle system makes a whole lot of difference in terms of grinding. As for DW7, I have to go back and finish that sucker :smileytongue:, I stopped playing around the part where you got to a town with petrified villagers (probably still quite early in the game :smileytongue: )


Good combat makes a difference in grinding, as well as having things to look forward to. Grinding out 4 levels just for some extra hp/mp to squeeze by a boss sucks. I finished up SMT: Devil Survivor Overclocked's Day 8 last night (one ending at any rate) and the only reason I beat the last boss was because he killed himself by attacking my last standing character who had Repel Phys on. I probably spent the better part of an hour on that one fight, constantly Recarm and Draining MP to stay in the fight. Great story. DIfficult fight :smileyvery-happy:

 

I think I'd finished about half the game before losing it somehow. I keep waiting for SE to release it on the PSN only to learn it's now a 3DS game. I seriously hope that it does get released here. I will snatch that sucka up in a flash :smileyvery-happy: It does seem odd though that it was previously a PS exclusive but now it's on Nintendo. /shrug/ Oh well. I have the 3DS (and the Vita) so I'm good to go. I can get all the good ones that make it here, regardless of what it's on.


That last boss you fought, was it the big M? :smileytongue:

Seems like Square Enix is reserving the Dragon Quest franchise entirely for Nintendo nowadays, sucks for the people who only owns Sony systems.

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Re: Should RPGs be Shorter?

Jan 25, 2013

kknd2002 wrote:


That last boss you fought, was it the big M? :smileytongue:

Seems like Square Enix is reserving the Dragon Quest franchise entirely for Nintendo nowadays, sucks for the people who only owns Sony systems.


/shaking head/ No. On day 8 I fought Susano-O and Oukunishi (sp?)

 

Sadly DQX I won't be buying. I just can't see DQ working on the MMO scale. It is kind of funny how they've played Sony this generation. By funny I don't mean "Hahah".

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