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Fender Bender
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Re: The Nature of Home: The Root of Failure

Jan 5, 2010

the1cj wrote: 

  maybey we need direct communication with the devs maybey they can explain why we dont have public voice chat or hovercrafts ect my constructive critism is to stop all the hype fix whats broke and give us advetised items thats all i really want is what was advertised and accountablity .


We used to have direct contact with some devs in the early beta days. But sadly, they are no longer part of the team. They were MVDM, Beta_Boy, and RevZ.

It's still my belief that their days were numbered ever since Phil Harrison left. That's when Home changed. 

Message Edited by Blazeking on 01-04-2010 07:19 PM
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Re: The Nature of Home: The Root of Failure

Jan 5, 2010

HeatherShow wrote:

Wow... there's SO much to reply to I almost don't know where to start. Sorry I've been away, had a busy day at the doctor today and this is the first chance I've had to sit down and read all of this since I last posted.

After seeing Cydonia's post, I think my response to her is going to be long enough on its own that I'll start there. But I want to thank everyone who's posted here for their constructive thoughts, kind words, and involvement in this discussion. It's great to see a thread carry on this long while maintaining civility and mature, thoughtful contemplation. 

And it's also a huge relief to know I'm not the only one who's been thinking about stuff like this.

 

Okay, so now to reply to Cydonia.

 

First off, Cyd, I want to thank you for taking the time to post a response. I really want you to understand how much I appreciate that. But I'm afraid I do have some things I'd like to say in response, so I'll post segments of your post and reply to them, bit by bit.

 


CydoniaX wrote:

Actually, this is incorrect and a very common misconception. "The HCM" is just community management, meaning myself, Locust_Star and GlassWalls. HCM is NOT all of  the Home team, Jack Buser, or Sony as a whole. We do not release content or decide what to charge or any of that business stuff. We run the community.


 

I'm aware of that, Cyd. I think most of us who have been here for a long time have figured that out eventually on our own. After all, it's third party companies like Lockwood and nDreams that are actually generating the content we see in the mall, for instance. 

But don't you think it would help with the general tenor here on the forum if that were made clearer for the general population from the get-go? Perhaps if your job descriptions were put up at the top of the forum, as a way to kind of guide expectations amongst the Home community, then you wouldn't end up getting faced with as much unfair, unnecessary blame as you complain about. A lot of the frustration from the community, I think, comes from all of the confusion and lack of communication; we feel like we're being ignored when we come to the only outlet we're provided with to give feedback about our experiences beta testing, yet we get nothing in response. And conversely, you and your colleagues are frustrated because the populace is blaming you for things beyond your control. How can the average Home user know that the blame they're placing upon you is unfair if we aren't even exactly sure what your job requirements are? See what I'm getting at?

I think we'd both find our problems assuaged if we could at least start by clearing up a lot of these so called "common misconceptions", and doing so in a very direct, open manner, so that even the newest Home user can become aware of precisely who you, Locust, and GlassWalls are, and precisely what it is you all are responsible for.

 


CydoniaX wrote:

And the description Heather wrote for an Engagement Specialist is pretty much GlassWall's area of specialization.


 

I'm really sorry to say this so bluntly, but if that's the case, all I can say is, where is he?

 

 


CydoniaX wrote:

But the kinds of programs you're talking about take a lot of time to get going.


 

 Oh believe me, I know. I'm certainly not expecting anything to be dramatically fixed overnight. Which is precisely why I stated in my original piece that in the beginning all I'd be hoping for is at least an improvement in communication, whilst at the same time having someone behind the scenes whose sole responsibility is to try and help guide the development of projects in the future to include more interaction and community engagement. Is that really what GlassWalls is doing? Is that really what the head moderator does? Because if that's really in his job description, as you say, then that doesn't exactly make much sense with what you said previously, about how you, Locust, and GlassWalls aren't involved in development at all. It's either one or the other, right? Either the head moderator's involved in development or he's not. I can't help but feel a little contradiction between your two statements. Not trying to be argumentative, I'm honestly just trying to understand. 

Again, perhaps that'd be cleared up if your job descriptions could be posted to the forum so we'd at least have even a basic understanding of how everything works. 

 


CydoniaX wrote:

Also, you have to remember that we can give you all kinds of awesome content and tools, but at the end of the day, it's up to YOU what you do with them. We'd love to see you guys engage with Home just as much as you want to see us engage with you, the community. I know tons of you throw your own events, have Home websites, forums, clubs, etc, and that's fantastic, we just need to figure out a way to work together to bring more attention to all of these things.

 


 

 Yes, it is up to us to use the tools provided by Home. But it's also up to you to respond when we come back to you, after we've used those tools, with constructive comments about things that may be broken, things that might not work optimally, or even just basic ideas about how things might be improved. From what I can gather from what you wrote, you are responsible for interacting with the community, correct? I understand your frustrations about having to deal with the less mature members of our community, whose first instinct is to attack rather than discuss, and I'll get into that more in a minute. But what's the point in our investing so much time and effort in using what YOU put out for us, if our feedback is utterly ignored?

 

Again, I can't help but come back to the Buzz quiz. I feel I've come up with a perfectly valid constructive comment in mentioning that, while Buzz is great fun, that fun is diminished by not being able to communicate in any way whatsoever with my friends while I'm playing it. You say that it's up to US to engage in whatever you give us, but in that instance, the developers have completely cut us off from engaging with anyone but the technology, which completely dehumanizes the entire experience. There's nothing I can do to change that or increase the level of engagement. I'm not saying that lack of ability to communicate is your fault, since you obviously weren't the developer behind it. But this forum is the place we're told to come to when we have suggestions such as those, yet we feel like we're ignored. 

 

But that's the kind of thing I'm talking about, those are the kind of limitations that I find myself brushing up against. Yes, it is great that so many of us are finding ways to engage with what we're given, and we're grateful for that. I've had great fun with my club. And honestly, I'm constantly amazed with the creativity I've seen sprout up from this community, all the amazing things they've done with even the most mundane of objects. 

But we're still stuck with certain limitations. Given that Home is still in beta and you're asking all of us to essentially be beta testers, certainly you must understand how frustrating it is for us to feel like we're being asked to be involved, but when we try to get involved with constructive criticism and suggestions, we're utterly ignored. I feel like those of us who are honestly trying our best to be helpful are being lumped up together with those who are merely attacking you, generalized into this massive heep of people you find utterly disgusting and wouldn't want to touch with a ten foot pole. That's not exactly fair, is it?

 

Which brings me to your last paragraph.

 


CydoniaX wrote:
 

There are some intelligent points in this thread. I'd just like to see less assigning of blame and more proactive solutions. As far as communication, we'd love to be able to tell you more things too, further in advance. However, because we work with 2 other regions, and oftentimes other depts of Sony are involved in game spaces, etc, not to mention 3rd parties, we have to be super-careful about coordinating with everyone before making big announcements. Also, spending tons of time in the forums has proven to be a not very constructive way to spend our time. No matter what we post, we get attacked for it, and it would be a waste of both your time and ours to sit  here all day arguing about whose fault this and that is.

 


 

 Again, I'm terribly sorry to say this so bluntly, but communicating with us - the community - on this forum, the only means of communication the community has with you, isn't that your job? Isn't that what you're paid to do?
Believe me, I wouldn't exactly wouldn't have to deal with some of the oh so delightful people on this forum all the time. I wouldn't want to have to bear the full force of their ire day in and day out.

But I'm not getting paid to do that. You are. 

As someone else pointed out, if replying to us on the forum isn't a very constructive way to spend your time, in what other ways exactly are you managing the community? What other outlets are you using, then, to communicate with us? Basically, if you're not communicating with us on the forum, the one place that customer service keeps directing us to as the only means for us to communicate with you, then how exactly are you doing your job?

Now, maybe again this stems from us not having an adequate understanding of your job description. So please, again, I would beg you to enlighten us so that perhaps these misunderstandings wouldn't have to happen in the future. 

But if what you're saying is, is that you have no say in development whatsoever, and you're entire job, five days a week, is to manage the community, yet you don't find that the forum is a constructive use of your time, then please, tell us, what is a constructive use of your time? If you aren't managing us here on the forum, then in what other ways can you manage us?

Or are you just picking and choosing who you manage?

 

I'm sorry, but that paragraph really bothers me. Again, I feel like those of us who are honestly trying, who are honestly trying to be fair-minded, constructive, and reasonable, mature adults about all of this, we're getting lumped up into one big generalized heep of people you wouldn't want to touch with a ten foot pole. And that's just not fair, especially since you're the one getting paid to deal with us. We're not, we're just doing this out of a love of Home. You're the one getting paid. 

Now if you don't want to deal with us, then of course, I suppose you're free to get another job. But if it's your duty to manage the community, then please, we're all begging you, manage us! Interact with us! Give us the basic human interaction we're all craving! 

 


CydoniaX wrote:

If you guys want to see Home improve, help set the tone here. Positive and constructive suggestions and feedback are a great way to start. We don't mind criticism either, so long as it's constructive.

 


 

 I'm sorry, I thought that's what we were all trying to do in this thread. At least, that's what I was trying to do when I started it. I don't feel that I was in any way accusatory, I wasn't trying to place blame, I wasn't trying to attack anyone at all. If it came off that way, I'm sorry. But the fact still remains, there are problems. And when I happened to see a problem that I felt my life experience might be able to be of some use in solving, I did my best to present a possible solution.

Or is that not the tone you were referring to?

 

I think that's everything for now. Again, Cydonia, thank you for taking the time to post a response, albeit a short one. It's a start, at least.

 

Message Edited by HeatherShow on 01-04-2010 08:24 PM

I'm sorry, but this is probably the most perfectly worded, fair minded, level headed, constructive response that I've seen in quite some time. All I have to say is bravo, you not only responded respectfully, but you know what you're talking about. Model post Heather, model post...

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Wastelander
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Re: The Nature of Home: The Root of Failure

Jan 5, 2010

Wow... there's SO much to reply to I almost don't know where to start. Sorry I've been away, had a busy day at the doctor today and this is the first chance I've had to sit down and read all of this since I last posted.

After seeing Cydonia's post, I think my response to her is going to be long enough on its own that I'll start there. But I want to thank everyone who's posted here for their constructive thoughts, kind words, and involvement in this discussion. It's great to see a thread carry on this long while maintaining civility and mature, thoughtful contemplation. 

And it's also a huge relief to know I'm not the only one who's been thinking about stuff like this.

 

Okay, so now to reply to Cydonia.

 

First off, Cyd, I want to thank you for taking the time to post a response. I really want you to understand how much I appreciate that. But I'm afraid I do have some things I'd like to say in response, so I'll post segments of your post and reply to them, bit by bit.

 


CydoniaX wrote:

Actually, this is incorrect and a very common misconception. "The HCM" is just community management, meaning myself, Locust_Star and GlassWalls. HCM is NOT all of  the Home team, Jack Buser, or Sony as a whole. We do not release content or decide what to charge or any of that business stuff. We run the community.


 

I'm aware of that, Cyd. I think most of us who have been here for a long time have figured that out eventually on our own. After all, it's third party companies like Lockwood and nDreams that are actually generating the content we see in the mall, for instance. 

But don't you think it would help with the general tenor here on the forum if that were made clearer for the general population from the get-go? Perhaps if your job descriptions were put up at the top of the forum, as a way to kind of guide expectations amongst the Home community, then you wouldn't end up getting faced with as much unfair, unnecessary blame as you complain about. A lot of the frustration from the community, I think, comes from all of the confusion and lack of communication; we feel like we're being ignored when we come to the only outlet we're provided with to give feedback about our experiences beta testing, yet we get nothing in response. And conversely, you and your colleagues are frustrated because the populace is blaming you for things beyond your control. How can the average Home user know that the blame they're placing upon you is unfair if we aren't even exactly sure what your job requirements are? See what I'm getting at?

I think we'd both find our problems assuaged if we could at least start by clearing up a lot of these so called "common misconceptions", and doing so in a very direct, open manner, so that even the newest Home user can become aware of precisely who you, Locust, and GlassWalls are, and precisely what it is you all are responsible for.

 


CydoniaX wrote:

And the description Heather wrote for an Engagement Specialist is pretty much GlassWall's area of specialization.


 

I'm really sorry to say this so bluntly, but if that's the case, all I can say is, where is he?

 

 


CydoniaX wrote:

But the kinds of programs you're talking about take a lot of time to get going.


 

 Oh believe me, I know. I'm certainly not expecting anything to be dramatically fixed overnight. Which is precisely why I stated in my original piece that in the beginning all I'd be hoping for is at least an improvement in communication, whilst at the same time having someone behind the scenes whose sole responsibility is to try and help guide the development of projects in the future to include more interaction and community engagement. Is that really what GlassWalls is doing? Is that really what the head moderator does? Because if that's really in his job description, as you say, then that doesn't exactly make much sense with what you said previously, about how you, Locust, and GlassWalls aren't involved in development at all. It's either one or the other, right? Either the head moderator's involved in development or he's not. I can't help but feel a little contradiction between your two statements. Not trying to be argumentative, I'm honestly just trying to understand. 

Again, perhaps that'd be cleared up if your job descriptions could be posted to the forum so we'd at least have even a basic understanding of how everything works. 

 


CydoniaX wrote:

Also, you have to remember that we can give you all kinds of awesome content and tools, but at the end of the day, it's up to YOU what you do with them. We'd love to see you guys engage with Home just as much as you want to see us engage with you, the community. I know tons of you throw your own events, have Home websites, forums, clubs, etc, and that's fantastic, we just need to figure out a way to work together to bring more attention to all of these things.

 


 

 Yes, it is up to us to use the tools provided by Home. But it's also up to you to respond when we come back to you, after we've used those tools, with constructive comments about things that may be broken, things that might not work optimally, or even just basic ideas about how things might be improved. From what I can gather from what you wrote, you are responsible for interacting with the community, correct? I understand your frustrations about having to deal with the less mature members of our community, whose first instinct is to attack rather than discuss, and I'll get into that more in a minute. But what's the point in our investing so much time and effort in using what YOU put out for us, if our feedback is utterly ignored?

 

Again, I can't help but come back to the Buzz quiz. I feel I've come up with a perfectly valid constructive comment in mentioning that, while Buzz is great fun, that fun is diminished by not being able to communicate in any way whatsoever with my friends while I'm playing it. You say that it's up to US to engage in whatever you give us, but in that instance, the developers have completely cut us off from engaging with anyone but the technology, which completely dehumanizes the entire experience. There's nothing I can do to change that or increase the level of engagement. I'm not saying that lack of ability to communicate is your fault, since you obviously weren't the developer behind it. But this forum is the place we're told to come to when we have suggestions such as those, yet we feel like we're ignored. 

 

But that's the kind of thing I'm talking about, those are the kind of limitations that I find myself brushing up against. Yes, it is great that so many of us are finding ways to engage with what we're given, and we're grateful for that. I've had great fun with my club. And honestly, I'm constantly amazed with the creativity I've seen sprout up from this community, all the amazing things they've done with even the most mundane of objects. 

But we're still stuck with certain limitations. Given that Home is still in beta and you're asking all of us to essentially be beta testers, certainly you must understand how frustrating it is for us to feel like we're being asked to be involved, but when we try to get involved with constructive criticism and suggestions, we're utterly ignored. I feel like those of us who are honestly trying our best to be helpful are being lumped up together with those who are merely attacking you, generalized into this massive heep of people you find utterly disgusting and wouldn't want to touch with a ten foot pole. That's not exactly fair, is it?

 

Which brings me to your last paragraph.

 


CydoniaX wrote:
 

There are some intelligent points in this thread. I'd just like to see less assigning of blame and more proactive solutions. As far as communication, we'd love to be able to tell you more things too, further in advance. However, because we work with 2 other regions, and oftentimes other depts of Sony are involved in game spaces, etc, not to mention 3rd parties, we have to be super-careful about coordinating with everyone before making big announcements. Also, spending tons of time in the forums has proven to be a not very constructive way to spend our time. No matter what we post, we get attacked for it, and it would be a waste of both your time and ours to sit  here all day arguing about whose fault this and that is.

 


 

 Again, I'm terribly sorry to say this so bluntly, but communicating with us - the community - on this forum, the only means of communication the community has with you, isn't that your job? Isn't that what you're paid to do?
Believe me, I wouldn't exactly want to have to deal with some of the oh so delightful people on this forum all the time. I wouldn't want to have to bear the full force of their ire day in and day out.

But I'm not getting paid to do that. You are. 

As someone else pointed out, if replying to us on the forum isn't a very constructive way to spend your time, in what other ways exactly are you managing the community? What other outlets are you using, then, to communicate with us? Basically, if you're not communicating with us on the forum, the one place that customer service keeps directing us to as the only means for us to communicate with you, then how exactly are you doing your job?

Now, maybe again this stems from us not having an adequate understanding of your job description. So please, again, I would beg you to enlighten us so that perhaps these misunderstandings wouldn't have to happen in the future. 

But if what you're saying is, is that you have no say in development whatsoever, and you're entire job, five days a week, is to manage the community, yet you don't find that the forum is a constructive use of your time, then please, tell us, what is a constructive use of your time? If you aren't managing us here on the forum, then in what other ways can you manage us?

Or are you just picking and choosing who you manage?

 

I'm sorry, but that paragraph really bothers me. Again, I feel like those of us who are honestly trying, who are honestly trying to be fair-minded, constructive, and reasonable, mature adults about all of this, we're getting lumped up into one big generalized heep of people you wouldn't want to touch with a ten foot pole. And that's just not fair, especially since you're the one getting paid to deal with us. We're not, we're just doing this out of a love of Home. You're the one getting paid. 

Now if you don't want to deal with us, then of course, I suppose you're free to get another job. But if it's your duty to manage the community, then please, we're all begging you, manage us! Interact with us! Give us the basic human interaction we're all craving! 

 

But the worst part of all, what you said about how there needs to be less placing of blame and more constructive criticism. I'm really sorry, Cyd, but sometimes not all the blame placed is inappropriate or false. Sometimes you guys do goof up. Of course you do, all of us do, we're all human. But every so often, we'd like to see that when a mistake is made, those responsible own up to it. When that doesn't happen, that's when the blame game starts and eventually spirals out of control.

Again, I come back to the Diner Dash Scavenger Hunt, the Red Bull Flugtag Contest typo, the Bomberman Scavenger Hunt; all three of those were ruined because someone made a mistake. No one on your side has spoken up about any of those mistakes, we haven't heard a single word about it! And it's been ages!

 

So naturally, people talk. We try to figure out what happened based on what little we know. Don't you see how all of that talk could have been avoided if only one of you would have spoken up sooner, to at the very least apologize that things didn't go smoothly and let us know that you're looking into what happened? That's all we wanted. But we've heard nothing! That's so unbearably frustrating after so many of us invested so much of our time engaging in those events, just like you said you wished more of us would do in your own post. We engaged, but again, we were ignored. A mistake was made, someone deserves blame somewhere, but it was just swept under the rug.

So yeah, I'm sorry, but sometimes blame is deserved. Sometimes it isn't. But perhaps if you'd only speak up before the blame game begins, we wouldn't need to place blame. We could just sort out what happened after a mistake is made and move on from it, without having to go through all the agonizing guesswork while the community's left in the dark to fend for itself after something's gone wrong. 

 


CydoniaX wrote:

If you guys want to see Home improve, help set the tone here. Positive and constructive suggestions and feedback are a great way to start. We don't mind criticism either, so long as it's constructive.

 


 

 I'm sorry, I thought that's what we were all trying to do in this thread. At least, that's what I was trying to do when I started it. I don't feel that I was in any way accusatory, I wasn't trying to place blame, I wasn't trying to attack anyone at all. If it came off that way, I'm sorry. But the fact still remains, there are problems. And when I happened to see a problem that I felt my life experience might be able to be of some use in solving, I did my best to present a possible solution.

Or is that not the tone you were referring to?

 

I think that's everything for now. Again, Cydonia, thank you for taking the time to post a response, albeit a short one. It's a start, at least.

 

Message Edited by HeatherShow on 01-04-2010 08:24 PM
Message Edited by HeatherShow on 01-04-2010 08:30 PM
Message Edited by HeatherShow on 01-04-2010 08:32 PM
By HeatherShow.com
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Wastelander
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Re: The Nature of Home: The Root of Failure

Jan 5, 2010

NJShadow wrote:

I'm sorry, but this is probably the most perfectly worded, fair minded, level headed, constructive response that I've seen in quite some time. All I have to say is bravo, you not only responded respectfully, but you know what you're talking about. Model post Heather, model post...


 

Hehe, thanks, but I've edited it many, many, many times since you quoted it, lol. I kept thinking of more stuff I wanted to say!!

But seriously, thank you. I'm really glad it came across so respectfully. I was trying really, really hard! Hehe.

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Re: The Nature of Home: The Root of Failure

Jan 5, 2010

Very nice response Heather. It was very tasteful, concise, and pretty much captured what the community would have liked to say. I can usually get my points across but im more of a "bull in a china shop"

 

Awesome Job !! 2nd to none.

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Re: The Nature of Home: The Root of Failure

Jan 5, 2010

Shadyknot wrote:

Very nice response Heather. It was very tasteful, concise, and pretty much captured what the community would have liked to say. I can usually get my points across but im more of a "bull in a china shop"

 

Awesome Job !! 2nd to none.


 

Lol, thanks, but you were joking about the "concise" part, right? Hehe, I had a minor stroke last year and geeze, ever since, I've had the HARDEST freaking time controlling my overly verbose nature.

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Re: The Nature of Home: The Root of Failure

Jan 5, 2010

HeatherShow wrote:

my overly verbose nature.


It's awesome i love it. If i see you that posted i have to read it because it's going to be quality.

Message Edited by Shadyknot on 01-04-2010 08:45 PM
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Re: The Nature of Home: The Root of Failure

Jan 5, 2010

Rahzen wrote:
My spider sense is telling me several things regarding SCE and Home. First, I'm starting to feel that Home's evolution is no longer in the agenda. Second, all t.v. and radio items will never be part of the service. Lastly, I have a hunch (due to the decline in the quality of the service) that as the PSN tries to grow and evolve, Home will slowly be laid to rest.

Absolutely wrong. Hope this is good news to all of you!

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Re: The Nature of Home: The Root of Failure

Jan 5, 2010

CydoniaX wrote:

Rahzen wrote:
My spider sense is telling me several things regarding SCE and Home. First, I'm starting to feel that Home's evolution is no longer in the agenda. Second, all t.v. and radio items will never be part of the service. Lastly, I have a hunch (due to the decline in the quality of the service) that as the PSN tries to grow and evolve, Home will slowly be laid to rest.

Absolutely wrong. Hope this is good news to all of you!


LoL Must be interesting to have to read some of this from your perspective. 

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Re: The Nature of Home: The Root of Failure

Jan 5, 2010

Shadyknot wrote:

HeatherShow wrote:

my overly verbose nature.


It's awesome i love it. If i see you that posted i have to read it because it's going to be quality.

Message Edited by Shadyknot on 01-04-2010 08:45 PM

 

Thanks, hon, I really appreciate that.

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