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Splicer
Registered: 09/03/2013
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Re: Attention: Game mechanics Seaclyff feedback

Oct 3, 2013
I am sorry the Dream island space beats this hands down with it meager price of $8. This observation deck /bomb shelter being marketed as a living space is a miss for me. The feel of this space is harsh with its metal sliding doors. And its logo branding doesn't soften its features at all. Martha Stewart would have a hard time decorating this space for comfy living.
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Ghost of Sparta
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Re: Attention: Game mechanics Seaclyff feedback

Oct 3, 2013

VioletWinds wrote:

I don't care if people like or don't like this space, buy it or don't buy it. It's their opinion and their money. I just wish they would quit talking about the price like they knew how much a space SHOULD cost. No, sorry, you don't. All you know is how much spaces are offered for and whether or not you'll spend your money to buy one or more of them.


and Man Cave 

 

 

 

I admit, Game Mechs trying to take some realisms...don't know how to spell it Smiley Sad

 

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: SeaClyff Retreat & Clubhouse spaces go live in x7

Oct 3, 2013

D-Nitrate wrote:


Except we not only could get this space for $10, we could even get this space for just $2 (or even less than that) IF there were 10 times more active users in Home... Which is where Sony dropped the ball, by not fixing issues, not communicating with their customers on issues with the service, and not doing nearly enough to promote the service so that the user base would grow instead of shrink.

 

And to call someone a whiner because they think it's ridiculous how the prices in Home do not at all reflect the cost of making those items when compared to other digital content on the same console, is in itself unreasonable and even whiney.

 

The difference is that Sony failed to build the user base and even maintain it.

 

Look, let us just assume there are 10,000 users in Home that actually spend money in Home.  Of those 10,000 users, as HIW stated, 100% of them are not going to all want the same thing.   In fact, many users I know who spend a great deal on wardrobe items have spent almost nothing on personal spaces... And vice versa.

 

So even if this space was priced at $5, it still will likely only appeal to about 20% of the 10,000 users.  Obviously more if it were cheaper.

 

So given this example, a dev, like John, will base his price with the understanding that even at just $5 he will likely not sell any more than 2,000 of these spaces (probably a lot less than that, but that is a debate best had in the "Developers not Making Enough Money thread).

 

So now that he knows that his potential market is within a group of just 2,000 users now he has to determine how much ROI he needs, and price the space accordingly.  Now let us assume the estimates in this example are close, then he has to estimate how many sales he would lose within that potential market as he increases the price.

 

In other words, at $5 he would likely sell no more than 2,000 units, thus a total sales of $10,000.

 

Now if he priced it at $10, clearly his potential market is going to shrink, but not by 50%, and likely only by 25% - so instead he would likely sell 1,500 units, which then would result in $15,000 in sales.

 

How here is where I probably think he went too far... As I personally think by pricing it at $20 he likely shrunk his potential market down to less than 500 people, and thus he may end up only making less had he instead charged only $10... But of course that is purely speculative at this point.

 

Here is what I am getting at though - the issue isn't whether or not charging $20 for a virtual space is reasonable or not, but rather it points out the glaring issue that Home desperately needs more users!

 

If instead of just 10,000 active users that regularly spend money in Home, there were 100,000 let alone the "millions" some were trying to convince us were out there, developers like John could sell spaces like this for just $2, and LMOs for less than a $1, and wardrobe and furnishing items for just a dime a piece and they would likely be making just as much if not more than they are right now.

 

This is where Sony failed.  They failed their customers, the developers, and even themselves, due to their terrible management of Home.  Even people I talk to that only briefly used Home years ago, have openly said the service had great potential, but Sony simply failed to do the necessary things to even get close to that potential.

 

Is it too late to save Home?  I didn't think so last year when things seemed to be at their worst, but now I'm not so easily convinced it can be saved, and seeing prices like this for even for those that feel  it is the best personal space of all time is just more evidence that Home isn't going to survive, as there simply are not enough 'whales' to support it, and every week that goes by more and more whales are leaving Home due to the unresolved issues plaguing the service.


You always make the same arguments. Now, I'm not disagreeing about Sony's failure, so we don't need to go there.

 

There may not be millions of Home users (I believe that figure was given long ago as the number of people [accounts] that clicked on the Home icon at least once.) but we don't know if there are thousands, tens of thousands or hundeds of thousands of users. And we don't know how many of these users spend money on Home or how much money the average user spends.  Your figures are made up and you know it. You may believe your figures are acurate or nearly so, but like everyone else, it's just an opinion. I'm afraid in this case I'm more likely to agree with HearItWow's opinion than yours.

 

And I repeat what I said in another thread, no one but the developer knows how much the "cost of making an item" is, so they are the  people who get to decide on the price. So, I stand by my position of calling those who complain about the price of an estate - WITHOUT knowing the expenses involved - whiners. Instead of whining, I suggest they buy or don't buy, point out the features they like or don't like and leave the pricing to those who have the right to do so.

 

 

The above comment is my opinion, unless I state a fact. You can disagree with my opinion, but facts are facts.
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Attention: Game mechanics Seaclyff feedback

Oct 3, 2013

VioletWinds wrote:

I don't care if people like or don't like this space, buy it or don't buy it. It's their opinion and their money. I just wish they would quit talking about the price like they knew how much a space SHOULD cost. No, sorry, you don't. All you know is how much spaces are offered for and whether or not you'll spend your money to buy one or more of them.


When a space costs more than most PSN games despite the fact the games clearly cost many time more to make than this or any space in Home, it is going to raise a lot of eyebrows, and it is not at all unreasonable for anyone to complain about it.

 

However, it isn't the devs fault, it is the fault of Sony who has failed to fix Home's issues, offer decent customer service, and promote Home so that the user base would grow instead of shrink.  Devs have to price items based on getting some kind of ROI or else they will have to stop making content for Home... As some clearly have.

 

But please stop criticizing customers who are not happy about the prices - its an issue that is also causing the user base to shrink, and if the prices do not come down and the user base doesn't grow, it is just going to make Home come to an end even sooner.

Sony's PlayStation Home updated mission statement...


"Like it never happened"


- Stand for something better than mediocrity and don't disguise it as adequate, when clearly it is far from that to anyone willing to be objective and unbiased. -

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Attention: Game mechanics Seaclyff feedback

Oct 3, 2013

D-Nitrate wrote:

VioletWinds wrote:

I don't care if people like or don't like this space, buy it or don't buy it. It's their opinion and their money. I just wish they would quit talking about the price like they knew how much a space SHOULD cost. No, sorry, you don't. All you know is how much spaces are offered for and whether or not you'll spend your money to buy one or more of them.


When a space costs more than most PSN games despite the fact the games clearly cost many time more to make than this or any space in Home, it is going to raise a lot of eyebrows, and it is not at all unreasonable for anyone to complain about it.

 

However, it isn't the devs fault, it is the fault of Sony who has failed to fix Home's issues, offer decent customer service, and promote Home so that the user base would grow instead of shrink.  Devs have to price items based on getting some kind of ROI or else they will have to stop making content for Home... As some clearly have.

 

But please stop criticizing customers who are not happy about the prices - its an issue that is also causing the user base to shrink, and if the prices do not come down and the user base doesn't grow, it is just going to make Home come to an end even sooner.


No.

The above comment is my opinion, unless I state a fact. You can disagree with my opinion, but facts are facts.
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Fender Bender
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Re: SeaClyff Retreat & Clubhouse spaces go live in x7

Oct 3, 2013
I wouldn't whine nor complain about the price. Regardless of the costs involved in designing the space, I just refuse to spend $20 on a Home apartment. They can charge whatever they like and it does not bother me a bit. Virtual real estate may be worth that much to some but not to me. Not a complaint, just a fact.
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: SeaClyff Retreat & Clubhouse spaces go live in x7

Oct 3, 2013

I'm with Liza on this. Great space, great features. I hope people enjoy it. I just won't be among the buyers, because the price is more than I'd invest in a single Home item.

 

D-Nitrate does raise a very valid point, however. As the market increases, the number of potential sales increases, which allows developers to lower costs and still break even or make a profit. If I can get 10,000 sales, I can price at 1/10th of what I'd need to price if there are only 1,000 sales. Growing the userbase could help to control costs, but it would need to grow dramatically. That's not likely to happen unless the following conditions are met:

 

1. Home is confirmed for PS4

2. Home overcomes its slow loading times, freezes and other technical issues.

3. Home develops better ways for users to isolate themselves from those who are disruptive.

 

Until those things happen, there's no gain for Sony in promoting Home. It has the same problems that turned off users previously. Inviting them back for another bad experience won't change things.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: SeaClyff Retreat & Clubhouse spaces go live in x7

[ Edited ]
Oct 3, 2013

VioletWinds wrote:

Your figures are made up and you know it. 

 


Obviously, which is also what I have always said.  Never have I claimed the exact number of users spending money in Home.... In fact, even the developers do not know the exact numbers, and Sony has never released that data, not even to the developers that I spoke with at least.  Which brings me to the other point, and that is unlike some people, I have actually spent time talking with some of the developers, two of which now have stopped making content for Home, and they have been quite open to share what they do know based on their own sales and traffic numbers to their spaces and commerce points... But even then if you will only accept an exact figure you will never get one, even from Sony.

 

When it comes to estimating the size of a potential market (like active users in Home that spend money in Home) it is always going to be an estimate, and never an exact figure.

 


VioletWinds wrote:

And I repeat what I said in another thread, no one but the developer knows how much the "cost of making an item" is, so they are the  people who get to decide on the price.  

No one said they are not allowed to decide on the price (although even here you are wrong, or Atom Republic has being lying to us, as they have stated a few times that Sony often dictates the pricing, even when they did not develop it)... But regardless of that, that doesn't mean the customers do not have the right to express their opinion about whether or not the prices are reasonable.  In fact, I would consider it unreasonable if they did not.

 


VioletWinds wrote:

So, I stand by my position of calling those who complain about the price of an estate - WITHOUT knowing the expenses involved - whiners.

Which is absurd.  The customer, even the potential customer of ANY product has the right to express their opinion on whether or not the price of a product or service is too high, and they do not even need to know the expenses involved... Especially when they are comparing similar products with obvious differences in development costs... But even with out it, consumers have every right to say whether they feel something is not priced correctly, and calling people whiners for that is frankly one of the reasons this community is so fractured and also causing more people to leave.

 

 


HearItWow wrote:


D-Nitrate does raise a very valid point, however. As the market increases, the number of potential sales increases, which allows developers to lower costs and still break even or make a profit. If I can get 10,000 sales, I can price at 1/10th of what I'd need to price if there are only 1,000 sales. Growing the userbase could help to control costs, but it would need to grow dramatically.
 


Thanks, and yes, that was one of my points, and why it really doesn't even matter that much how 'accurate' the estimates are for how many active users there are in Home, only that what ever the number it is, it clearly needs to be significantly larger in order for developers and Sony to lower these prices and still get the same ROI.

As it is, it is fairly obvious many customers, and especially potential customers look at these prices and likely laugh.  When they can buy a PSN game for less than a single item in Home, clearly there is a disconnect on what is considered reasonable pricing.  Now just as clearly as it is that many wont buy things in Home because of the prices, many do, but even that is understandable as everyone has a different comfort level and different budgets when it comes to spending their money... But that doesn't mean the prices are reasonable just because some people are buying them.

 

And it certainly doesn't mean just because someone expresses their opinion that the price of an item is too high, that they are whining and unreasonable.  In fact, if anyone sounds like a whiner and who is behaving unreasonably it's the person accusing them of whining in the first place.

Sony's PlayStation Home updated mission statement...


"Like it never happened"


- Stand for something better than mediocrity and don't disguise it as adequate, when clearly it is far from that to anyone willing to be objective and unbiased. -

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Fender Bender
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Re: SeaClyff Retreat & Clubhouse spaces go live in x7

Oct 3, 2013

There's nothing wrong with complaining (commenting?) on prices. Sales determine what prices will be but posts on the forum I would think are taken into consideration.

 

SONY doesn't help matters on what will happen to HOME in the future either on PS3 or PS4. Please stop the silence, SONY. Smiley Frustrated

 

As far as Seaclyff is concerned, I'm looking forward to it. Affordability about anything is an issue for the next few days.  

In memory of Jody Westover and all those who fight or have fought cancer

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: SeaClyff Retreat & Clubhouse spaces go live in x7

Oct 3, 2013

D-Nitrate wrote:
Blah, blah, blah

Don't assume because I'm not interested in arguing with you any more that I agree with anything you said.

The above comment is my opinion, unless I state a fact. You can disagree with my opinion, but facts are facts.
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