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Keyblade Wielder
Registered: 01/28/2012
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Re: SeaClyff Retreat & Clubhouse spaces go live in x7

Oct 3, 2013

D-Nitrate wrote:

As far as the price goes for this and most items in Home, I suspect even John would admit it has far less to do with what he and other devs think people are willing to spend on them, and a great deal more on how small the potential market of users is that will buy these items at ANY price.

 

So the dev, like John, looks at the sales data he and other devs have collected, and sees that even if he lowered the price, it is most likely true that he would not be able to make up for it in volume... Unlike other digital content, like video games that have millions of potential customers.

 

To put it another way, let's say this space was priced at just $5.  In order to make the same amount of revenue, it would have to sell four times as many units.  While on the face of it, we might think that's perfectly possible and even likely, the reality is that based on the sales data he and others have collected over time, probably shows that there simply are not enough potential buyers in Home to make up the difference.

 



You're as off base as John is.  I know he likes to come on here and throw statistics around, but his logic is delusional.

People spend money in Home, go out in public, look at your friends list, it's not hard to see.

 

Granted, not all items will appeal to the masses, and some may only appeal to a niche market. However, a personal space is generic

enough that it should appeal to most.

 

By what you're saying, putting a $20 price tag on it justifies the logic that not too many people will buy it anyway, so I might as well get my money from the few that will? This is so not the case.

 

Unfortunately, he priced himself out of sales. I guarantee if it was priced at $11.99, he'd see at least 5x the sales. It's real simple, people are turned off by a $20 price tag.

 





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Fender Bender
Registered: 03/18/2012
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Re: SeaClyff Retreat & Clubhouse spaces go live in x7

Oct 3, 2013

CMCSAVAGE wrote:

D-Nitrate wrote:

As far as the price goes for this and most items in Home, I suspect even John would admit it has far less to do with what he and other devs think people are willing to spend on them, and a great deal more on how small the potential market of users is that will buy these items at ANY price.

 

So the dev, like John, looks at the sales data he and other devs have collected, and sees that even if he lowered the price, it is most likely true that he would not be able to make up for it in volume... Unlike other digital content, like video games that have millions of potential customers.

 

To put it another way, let's say this space was priced at just $5.  In order to make the same amount of revenue, it would have to sell four times as many units.  While on the face of it, we might think that's perfectly possible and even likely, the reality is that based on the sales data he and others have collected over time, probably shows that there simply are not enough potential buyers in Home to make up the difference.

 



You're as off base as John is.  I know he likes to come on here and throw statistics around, but his logic is delusional.

People spend money in Home, go out in public, look at your friends list, it's not hard to see.

 

Granted, not all items will appeal to the masses, and some may only appeal to a niche market. However, a personal space is generic

enough that it should appeal to most.

 

By what you're saying, putting a $20 price tag on it justifies the logic that not too many people will buy it anyway, so I might as well get my money from the few that will? This is so not the case.

 

Unfortunately, he priced himself out of sales. I guarantee if it was priced at $11.99, he'd see at least 5x the sales. It's real simple, people are turned off by a $20 price tag.

 


If this is so, then they are not thinking it through. The community asked for these features in an estate and this is what is costs to recoup the expenses from a year's worth of programming. I'm beginning to feel that the forum IS full of whiners. You aren't going to get an estate like this for $9.99. For goodness' sake, people, look at what the mansion spaces cost for so much less.

The above comment is my opinion, unless I state a fact. You can disagree with my opinion, but facts are facts.
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Hekseville Citizen
Registered: 10/17/2012
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Re: Attention: Game mechanics Seaclyff feedback

Oct 3, 2013

The only complain I have is that the wallpaper you choose doesn't stay, so you need to change it back every time you enter the place.

 

Other then that It's a really really nice space, and the man cave is just great for those of us that loves Al Bundy Smiley Happy

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: SeaClyff Retreat & Clubhouse spaces go live in x7

Oct 3, 2013

CMCSAVAGE wrote:

D-Nitrate wrote:

As far as the price goes for this and most items in Home, I suspect even John would admit it has far less to do with what he and other devs think people are willing to spend on them, and a great deal more on how small the potential market of users is that will buy these items at ANY price.

 

So the dev, like John, looks at the sales data he and other devs have collected, and sees that even if he lowered the price, it is most likely true that he would not be able to make up for it in volume... Unlike other digital content, like video games that have millions of potential customers.

 

To put it another way, let's say this space was priced at just $5.  In order to make the same amount of revenue, it would have to sell four times as many units.  While on the face of it, we might think that's perfectly possible and even likely, the reality is that based on the sales data he and others have collected over time, probably shows that there simply are not enough potential buyers in Home to make up the difference.

 



You're as off base as John is.  I know he likes to come on here and throw statistics around, but his logic is delusional.

People spend money in Home, go out in public, look at your friends list, it's not hard to see.

 

Granted, not all items will appeal to the masses, and some may only appeal to a niche market. However, a personal space is generic

enough that it should appeal to most.

 

By what you're saying, putting a $20 price tag on it justifies the logic that not too many people will buy it anyway, so I might as well get my money from the few that will? This is so not the case.

 

Unfortunately, he priced himself out of sales. I guarantee if it was priced at $11.99, he'd see at least 5x the sales. It's real simple, people are turned off by a $20 price tag.

 


It doesn't work that way. Lowering prices increases sales marginally, not exponentially.

 

The logic that you sell twice as much of something at half the price never holds, because it assumes that the price is the barrier to people buying. That's very rarely true, unless you're talking about two nearly identical items. If Coke was $5 a can and Pepsi was $1 a can, more people would buy Pepsi, certainly, but there would still be those people who buy Coke because they can't stand Pepsi. Even if Coke only has 20% of the market, selling one can for every four that Pepsi sells, they still wind up making more money ($5for one can instead of $4 for four cans).

 

Anytime someone is creating a product, they have to start by considering the market. John's always been pretty clear about explaining that some things just don't appeal to some people. Put in a Man Cave sign, lose sales. Put in certain music, lose sales. Set the space on a beach instead of a forest, lose sales. Under no circumstances will 100% of an available market buy something. You can't even get 100% of people to take something for free.

 

So once you've figured out the size of your market, you start working on the price. With the size and features of this space, it was always going to be $9.99 at a minimum. Start there and then calculate potential sales, and you get the final price that hopefully lets the producer break even on production costs.

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Fender Bender
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Re: SeaClyff Retreat & Clubhouse spaces go live in x7

[ Edited ]
Oct 3, 2013

HearItWow wrote:
So once you've figured out the size of your market, you start working on the price. With the size and features of this space, it was always going to be $9.99 at a minimum. Start there and then calculate potential sales, and you get the final price that hopefully lets the producer break even on production costs.

If the production costs for a space with so many features require a $20 price tag, then so be it.  As with any other product, the market will decide if enough people are willing to pay that premium price to make it a viable product.  If not, developers witll have to scale back their ambitions and sell simpler items at more affordable prices.

 

I'm not sure how many apartments the Home market could reasonably bear at this price level.  Maybe not even this one  I expect that a lot Home users would rather blow a $20 PSN card on a couple more basic spaces plus a furniture bundle than one space with a bunch of novelty features that are not that important in the end.

castle3
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: SeaClyff Retreat & Clubhouse spaces go live in x7

Oct 3, 2013

There's a lot of comical things I could say about the mentality of the people who buy $20 apartments this far into Home's life cycle, but the important thing is GameMechanics have already established approximately how many of those sorts of people exist as active Home customers and how many of them are likely to buy their product. Regardless of what we think of those people, or GameMechanics for the pricing of this space, they are going to break even or make a profit. People have already blindly gone and bought the space (which is fantastic btw), only proving my point Smiley Happy not something I'd buy as I'm a cheapskate but clearly something others would buy!

Jersquall: Any new news on Home on PS4 yet?

Tempest_Fire: Due to a shifting landscape, PlayStation Home will cease publishing new content on November 12, 2014.

@conrad_max

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: SeaClyff Retreat & Clubhouse spaces go live in x7

[ Edited ]
Oct 3, 2013

VioletWinds wrote:

If this is so, then they are not thinking it through. The community asked for these features in an estate and this is what is costs to recoup the expenses from a year's worth of programming. I'm beginning to feel that the forum IS full of whiners. You aren't going to get an estate like this for $9.99. For goodness' sake, people, look at what the mansion spaces cost for so much less.

Except we not only could get this space for $10, we could even get this space for just $2 (or even less than that) IF there were 10 times more active users in Home... Which is where Sony dropped the ball, by not fixing issues, not communicating with their customers on issues with the service, and not doing nearly enough to promote the service so that the user base would grow instead of shrink.

 

And to call someone a whiner because they think it's ridiculous how the prices in Home do not at all reflect the cost of making those items when compared to other digital content on the same console, is in itself unreasonable and even whiney.

 

The difference is that Sony failed to build the user base and even maintain it.

 

Look, let us just assume there are 10,000 users in Home that actually spend money in Home.  Of those 10,000 users, as HIW stated, 100% of them are not going to all want the same thing.   In fact, many users I know who spend a great deal on wardrobe items have spent almost nothing on personal spaces... And vice versa.

 

So even if this space was priced at $5, it still will likely only appeal to about 20% of the 10,000 users.  Obviously more if it were cheaper.

 

So given this example, a dev, like John, will base his price with the understanding that even at just $5 he will likely not sell any more than 2,000 of these spaces (probably a lot less than that, but that is a debate best had in the "Developers not Making Enough Money thread).

 

So now that he knows that his potential market is within a group of just 2,000 users now he has to determine how much ROI he needs, and price the space accordingly.  Now let us assume the estimates in this example are close, then he has to estimate how many sales he would lose within that potential market as he increases the price.

 

In other words, at $5 he would likely sell no more than 2,000 units, thus a total sales of $10,000.

 

Now if he priced it at $10, clearly his potential market is going to shrink, but not by 50%, and likely only by 25% - so instead he would likely sell 1,500 units, which then would result in $15,000 in sales.

 

How here is where I probably think he went too far... As I personally think by pricing it at $20 he likely shrunk his potential market down to less than 500 people, and thus he may end up only making less had he instead charged only $10... But of course that is purely speculative at this point.

 

Here is what I am getting at though - the issue isn't whether or not charging $20 for a virtual space is reasonable or not, but rather it points out the glaring issue that Home desperately needs more users!

 

If instead of just 10,000 active users that regularly spend money in Home, there were 100,000 let alone the "millions" some were trying to convince us were out there, developers like John could sell spaces like this for just $2, and LMOs for less than a $1, and wardrobe and furnishing items for just a dime a piece and they would likely be making just as much if not more than they are right now.

 

This is where Sony failed.  They failed their customers, the developers, and even themselves, due to their terrible management of Home.  Even people I talk to that only briefly used Home years ago, have openly said the service had great potential, but Sony simply failed to do the necessary things to even get close to that potential.

 

Is it too late to save Home?  I didn't think so last year when things seemed to be at their worst, but now I'm not so easily convinced it can be saved, and seeing prices like this for even for those that feel  it is the best personal space of all time is just more evidence that Home isn't going to survive, as there simply are not enough 'whales' to support it, and every week that goes by more and more whales are leaving Home due to the unresolved issues plaguing the service.

Sony's PlayStation Home updated mission statement...


"Like it never happened"


- Stand for something better than mediocrity and don't disguise it as adequate, when clearly it is far from that to anyone willing to be objective and unbiased. -

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Wastelander
Registered: 09/14/2012
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Re: Attention: Game mechanics Seaclyff feedback

Oct 3, 2013

I'll give you some props the space is nice but no offense there are alot of options as far as spaces go that are well below $20. I mean the Dream Island was AWESOME and it was only $8. I might still buy it eventually maybe. But honestly for $20 I'm not sure. 

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Fender Bender
Registered: 03/18/2012
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Re: Attention: Game mechanics Seaclyff feedback

Oct 3, 2013

I don't care if people like or don't like this space, buy it or don't buy it. It's their opinion and their money. I just wish they would quit talking about the price like they knew how much a space SHOULD cost. No, sorry, you don't. All you know is how much spaces are offered for and whether or not you'll spend your money to buy one or more of them.

The above comment is my opinion, unless I state a fact. You can disagree with my opinion, but facts are facts.
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Wastelander
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Re: Attention: Game mechanics Seaclyff feedback

Oct 3, 2013

Yes you're right we all have our own opinions thank you for saying so Smiley Wink

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