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First Son
Registered: 06/22/2013
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Re: Religion on HOME is not allowed!

Jul 8, 2013
Where's the Kudos Button. I can't find it!

...

FAQ, you lied to me.
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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: Religion on HOME is not allowed!

Jul 8, 2013
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Wastelander
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Re: Religion on HOME is not allowed!

[ Edited ]
Jul 8, 2013

msx293 wrote:

religion shouldn't be allowed anywhere outside the believers minds in my opinion, look at the muslims they use their religion to an extreme to kill people. christians are just as bad though they believe if you don't do anything but conform to their ideal morals you're a heathen & should be persecuted, case in point the crusades, two religions hell bent on wiping each other off the face of the planet that killed more than all wars in history.


Um no. The Crusades, like all wars in history, were mainly a political struggle over land and resources. Religion was mainly used by the politicians on both sides to beat the drums and get recruits to sign up. It began after Byzantium badly lost the Battle of Manzikert and requested Europe's help in defending their remaining territory against aggressive Turkish invasions. If Europe had not rallied to their defense and counter attacked, it's quite possible that most of Europe would be Turkish today (for better or worse you decide).

 

If religion was really so important to the Christian politicians of the day, they wouldn't have rounded up and burned at the stake all their best Christian warriors, the Knights Templar, after the Crusades were mostly over. King Philip of France was jealous of the the Templar's (you guessed it) land and wealth they had gathered while fighting.

 

Christianity (and all religion) has been used by rulers for political ends all through history up to the modern day, so to blame the Crusades or any other war solely on Christianity or Islam is absolutely naive. You really think Europe and the Middle East would've gotten along better no matter what religion they had? These people had been fighting already for thousands of years (hello Greece vs. Persia!, Rome vs. Parthia!), and both sides had changed gods several times over that period. Even with no God at all they'd probably still be at it.

 

P.S. The Crusades absolutely did not "kill more than all wars in history". The bloodiest war in history was World War 2 in terms of civilian deaths, and the most loss of life occurred on the eastern front between Germany and Soviet Russia, two vocally ATHEIST nations at the time. So vocal that in both nations, religious people like Jews and Christians were routinely rounded up and put in concentration camps.

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First Son
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Re: Religion on HOME is not allowed!

Jul 8, 2013
Seriously, please tell me where the Kudos button went!
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First Son
Registered: 06/22/2013
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Re: Religion on HOME is not allowed!

Jul 8, 2013
WHY, (Jehovah, God, Ra, WHOEVER IT IS NOWADAYS)? WHY MUST YOU TAUNT ME WITH SUCH GOOD POSTS AND NO KUDOS BUTTON!?!

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY???
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Wastelander
Registered: 01/21/2013
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Re: Religion on HOME is not allowed!

Jul 8, 2013

GammaWALL-E wrote:
WHY, (Jehovah, God, Ra, WHOEVER IT IS NOWADAYS)? WHY MUST YOU TAUNT ME WITH SUCH GOOD POSTS AND NO KUDOS BUTTON!?!

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY???

It's the Plus with the Partial Star button in case you were being serious.

Antonio Xul
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Treasure Hunter
Registered: 10/01/2009
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Re: Religion on HOME is not allowed!

Jul 8, 2013

Burmecian_Rat wrote:

msx293 wrote:

religion shouldn't be allowed anywhere outside the believers minds in my opinion, look at the muslims they use their religion to an extreme to kill people. christians are just as bad though they believe if you don't do anything but conform to their ideal morals you're a heathen & should be persecuted, case in point the crusades, two religions hell bent on wiping each other off the face of the planet that killed more than all wars in history.


Um no. The Crusades, like all wars in history, were mainly a political struggle over land and resources. Religion was mainly used by the politicians on both sides to beat the drums and get recruits to sign up. It began after Byzantium badly lost the Battle of Manzikert and requested Europe's help in defending their remaining territory against aggressive Turkish invasions. If Europe had not rallied to their defense and counter attacked, it's quite possible that most of Europe would be Turkish today (for better or worse you decide).

 

If religion was really so important to the Christian politicians of the day, they wouldn't have rounded up and burned at the stake all their best Christian warriors, the Knights Templar, after the Crusades were mostly over. King Philip was jealous of the the Templar's (you guessed it) land and wealth they had gathered while fighting.

 

Christianity (and all religion) has been used by rulers for political ends all through history up to the modern day, so to blame the Crusades or any other war solely on Christianity or Islam is absolutely naive. You really think Europe and the Middle East would've gotten along better no matter what religion they had? These people had been fighting already for thousands of years (hello Greece vs. Persia!, Rome vs. Parthia!), and both sides had changed Gods several times over that period. Even with no God at all they'd probably still be at it.

 

P.S. The Crusades absolutely did not "kill more than all wars in history". The bloodiest war in history was World War 2 in terms of civilian deaths, and the most loss of life occurred on the eastern front between Germany and Russia, two vocally ATHEIST nations. So vocal that in both nations, religious people like Jews and Christians were routinely rounded up and put in concentration camps.


This is a good bit of history here, but there's one important thing to add:

 

Running the war through the Church was the only way to get the European nations involved to cooperate and raise an army. Several of those nations would have been happy to watch Italy or Spain fall to the Turks, then kick the Turks out with their own armies and capture the land. By organizing through the Vatican, the nations involved basically assured that England or France wouldn't keep their armies at home to open up a European front on whomever was under attack.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Religion on HOME is not allowed!

Jul 8, 2013
Saw this and burst into laughter kudos to you
Until one has loved an animal a part of one's soul remains unawakened-Anatole France
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Religion on HOME is not allowed!

Jul 9, 2013

GammaWALL-E wrote:
Seriously, please tell me where the Kudos button went!

You have to subscribe to Playstation Plus to leave religious kudos.. 

 

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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 05/18/2013
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Re: Religion on HOME is not allowed!

Jul 10, 2013

@kryptic i know it's sad, leaving my atheist beliefs out there & imposing it on other people that don't believe in what i don't believe in lol

 

 

@rat the point is that religion was used as propoganda. the numbers can't be confirmed on how many died since THEY WENT ON OVER A SPAN OF 1000 YEARS. you don't have to tell me about the crusades, i have a volume of family records the size of a dictionary of our exploits during the crusades. we alone killed tens of thousands of both civilians & soldiers who's to say some more prominent knights from say france didn't kill more? they didn't get all the templars either, france was really only the most famous for killing them. we were in britain & they didn't touch a single archer under our command. the french were the ones upset about it because the king wasn't the richest person in the kingdom anymore. briton on the other hand gave us a good portion of our land back & we got commendations from the kings for our exploits. namely a gold cross that was 12" long by 6" wide made of solid gold with emeralds & ruby's set in it. 

 

i could go on & fill the page with more of my family history but i don't really want to type out that much out right now. i'd rather go eat & play battlefield than have to explain further why france is screwed & why public history of the crusades is skewed towards the opinions of the spanish italians & french rather than what actually happened elsewhere. but good job on using history to your advantage even if it is opinionated by the sore european kings instead of the people who fought it.

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