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Splicer
Registered: 08/24/2012
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Re: Regarding the drama in VIP@casino 2/1

Jan 4, 2013

StardustChampion wrote:

In that case, their argument is still justified. It sounds like they're playing within the rules Digital Leisure created, just not the way the developer intended. The casino exists for amusement; if these players entertain themselves by boosting some irrelevant leaderboard, good for them. If DL has a problem with what they're doing, the poker tables should be redesigned to prevent it from happening. Banning users because of your incompetence as a developer is rude and lazy.

 

Well, if its not the way the developer intended, do they not have the right to ban people for expoiting the system? They also have the right to change the rules as they see fit. I'm acutally surprised this donking hasn't been issue before now.

 


StardustChampion wrote:

 

If this developer had any integrity, they would get rid of the leaderboards. Unfortunately, Digital Leisure makes too much money off of losers who take them seriously. I've never seen a multiplayer game that was improved by the addition of online rankings.

 

 


Really? I can think of a very long list of games that improved by having leaderboards.

 

  • Chess
  • All sports (imagine a sports league that didn't track scores or standings)
  • Every facebook game
  • Halo/CoD
  • Starcraft
  • Need for Speed
  • Clash of clans
  • World of Warcraft
  • Anything that lets you play with other players and measure your progress in an empircal way.

 

 

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Ghost of Sparta
Registered: 05/27/2009
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Re: Regarding the drama in VIP@casino 2/1

[ Edited ]
Jan 4, 2013

Tsavvy wrote:

StardustChampion wrote:

In that case, their argument is still justified. It sounds like they're playing within the rules Digital Leisure created, just not the way the developer intended. The casino exists for amusement; if these players entertain themselves by boosting some irrelevant leaderboard, good for them. If DL has a problem with what they're doing, the poker tables should be redesigned to prevent it from happening. Banning users because of your incompetence as a developer is rude and lazy.

 

Well, if its not the way the developer intended, do they not have the right to ban people for expoiting the system? They also have the right to change the rules as they see fit. I'm acutally surprised this donking hasn't been issue before now.

 


StardustChampion wrote:

 

If this developer had any integrity, they would get rid of the leaderboards. Unfortunately, Digital Leisure makes too much money off of losers who take them seriously. I've never seen a multiplayer game that was improved by the addition of online rankings.

 

 


Really? I can think of a very long list of games that improved by having leaderboards.

 

  • Chess
  • All sports (imagine a sports league that didn't track scores or standings)
  • Every facebook game
  • Halo/CoD
  • Starcraft
  • Need for Speed
  • Clash of clans
  • World of Warcraft
  • Anything that lets you play with other players and measure your progress in an empircal way.

 

 


Let me add this bymyself

 

  • All iOS/ANDROID game that have leaderboard (which later ported to anything)
  • Gears of War
  • Youtube's Subscriber Leaderboards (non-gaming) (http://vidstatsx.com/youtube-top-100-most-subscribed-channels)
  • Stream (Valve)
  • Real Life (aka Best Employee of the month, etc)
  • uPlay (Ubisoft)
  • OnLive
  • Unofficial PSN Thophy leaderboard
  • Origin (EA)
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Message 22 of 31 (462 Views)
First Son
Registered: 01/04/2013
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Re: Regarding the drama in VIP@casino 2/1

Jan 4, 2013

I don't normally post in the forums, but I am one of the so-called "donks" the OP is referring to, and since the OP's posts are full of misinformation, I felt the need to respond.

 

On January 1st, the amount of "poofing" (network errors, freezing, etc.) during games had reached an all-time high -- we couldn't get through 10 minutes of a game without several people getting kicked. So several of us decided to play aggressively -- being the silly people that we are, we declared it "donk day". The games were NOT fixed in any way and anyone could join -- we advertised each game as a "donk table" & asked anyone willing to play a faster game to join us.

 

We played as we would in a normal game, with the exception that if you thought you had the winning hand, you went all-in rather than betting a smaller bet. Thus, by "donking", the game would go at a much faster pace & thus we would avoid "poofing" and losing our chips to server errors. (Note: I realize this isn't an accurate definition of "donking" -- we were just being silly).

 

Regarding the misinformation that the OP has stated:

 

1) We did NOT play aggressively to get on the new leaderboard...this occured on the 1st, and the new leaderboard wasn't supposed to start until the 2nd. We had no way of knowing that DL would be resetting the leaderboard a day earlier than announced, as the leaderboard scores had been frozen all day (still showing season 2 scores).

 

2) We did NOT play "fixed" games - I can think of at least 20 different people I played with that day, some regulars and some I'd never met before. We did NOT make sure that we took turns winning - the only difference between our "donk" games and normal games was that we went all-in on good hands instead of making small bets.

 

3) Digital Leisure did contact us by email to ask us to stop playing such short games, as it is difficult to tell from their game logs whether we are playing legitimately or "chip dumping". If it had stopped there, this would have been no problem -- but then Digitial Leisure decided to come to VIP and announce it to the room, saying that if we play games that are too short, they will take away our earnings from said games....yet he would not define what DL considers "inappropriate donking" or what the minimum time limit would be. This is why people were angry -- if they were going to impose rules on us with the risk of losing our earnings if we don't comply, we wanted them to explain exactly what the new "rule" is.

 

4) Neither I nor the people I played with that day have "gotten others banned". If you have proof of such a statement, I would love to see it.

 

Those who have played with me regularly know that I do not normally "donk", nor do the others I played with that day. We were simply having fun and trying to play quick enough games so as to avoid losing our chips to server errors, since they had been abnormally frequent that day. We may have gotten carried away, but we did nothing against the "rules" that existed at that time.

 

IMO, the only sure way to prevent people from playing "too aggressively" would be making it limit hold em....but if this is done, the blinds need to raise higher & more frequently so the games don't take too long...even on a normal day, it's rare to get through a 30-40 minute game without someone getting kicked off the server.

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I Only Post Everything
Registered: 04/16/2011
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Re: Regarding the drama in VIP@casino 2/1

Jan 4, 2013
I have to agree with Cliff. I only just recently became aware of what "donking" is and I abhore it's use in a regular game.

I would never do such a thing myself, except in the rare case of bluffing, which I hardly ever do.

I was not involved in the Jan 1st incident but I still think what happened was unfair to those who were involved. I can totally understand where Cliff is coming from as the dropouts, freezes, redeals, lost outlines, poofs and network errors have become way too common in the VIP room.

I think what happened was an unfortunate turn of events and the proper solution would not be to punish those involved but 1. Fix the casino and 2. Adjust the leaderboard.

If the casino didn't have the problems it has and the leaderboard hadn't resetted early this would not have even occurred.

As for real donkers, I agree. Just hold out and they'll eventually lose everything to you because you should only stay on a good hand.
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Splicer
Registered: 04/17/2011
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Re: Regarding the drama in VIP@casino 2/1

Jan 6, 2013

Personaly, I think it is absurd that person that wants to ban someone for playin a good game of poker, who complains over and over again, tells everyone in the Casino to report a player (again, for playin well) and takin too long to end the game to even comment on this thread.... isn't that right StardustChampion????

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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 06/14/2009
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Re: Regarding the drama in VIP@casino 2/1

Jan 6, 2013

Like cliff racer, I dont often post here, prolly been years since my last. Either way most of the regular posters here know me pretty well, at least poker peeps anyhow. This whole incident caused ALL sorts of drama that has not even been touched on, which is why I'm here, to clear up at least 1 of those issues. My reputation on Home stands well, I dont use mutiple ID's, I dont cheat, and I will not tolerate racism and bigotted slurs, which I insta report. But I AM guilty of calling cliff a liar without double checking some facts, which I intend to do Monday. I'm a man of my word and I told her I would apologize publicly, if was wrong, I decided not to wait and have already apologized to her personally, now publicly, I'm very sorry for calling you a liar cliff. 

The facts, as I know them: cliff sent me a copy of a letter from DL claiming that she was not cheating, I asked DL if the letter was legit, and was told they dont send those kinds of things out. I was also told that their accounts had been looked into, but no concrete evidence was found of cheating. I was also told they, meaning DL had no control of servers and peeps creating them, so the "no donking" rule was imposed to prevent private chip dumping. This is when I ASSUMED cliff was lying, and said so to a "mutual friend" This was wrong of me and again I apologize. Cliff and I are square.

DL I IMPLORE YOU, to please put an end to all the accusations flying around and post something here to verify all this. When you send AVI's to the room, half the peeps dont even beleive they are legit, an official post would go a long way to stop some of this fighting. I no longer keeps friends on a list, join any clubs, or participate in group activitites because of all the drama, for lack of a better word. I don't feel the need to have my "friends" knowing all my activities on home or PSN, and I no longer trust anyone I've met on home, so my personal experience has soured. I will continue to play poker, cause I love it, and dont have much else to do with my time, but I'll never be the same old sake again. Some personal attention to all this would restore a lot of my faith in digital life.

On a final note, hello to all you peeps I have not seen in a long time, I miss the old days and the old you's. Now you know 1 of the reasons you disappeared from my list and I hope no one takes it personal, its just how I live my life now. I wish you all the best, and if you want to see me, you know where I am, at the tables like always.

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I Only Post Everything
Registered: 02/15/2012
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Re: Regarding the drama in VIP@casino 2/1

Jan 6, 2013
Yes it was,

But at least u see my point tho, which I thank you for =0)

But he drama is mostly from immature kids there.

Don't I think that space should have an age restriction or Sony should of done that in some spaces? It may help the community more

But then there's always a way to hack and fake ur age which sucks but of they did an age restriction, it would go by their profile.

What do think about that idea? =0)
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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 06/14/2009
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Re: Regarding the drama in VIP@casino 2/1

Jan 7, 2013

I dont like the idea of age restrictions or displays of personal info, but that being said, it would be nice of parents monitored their kids activitties a little closer. There lies the resposibility, which the last generation seems to have forgotten. Just sayinSmiley Happy

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Regarding the drama in VIP@casino 2/1

Jan 7, 2013

I just got off the phone with DL, and they assured me the issue was miscommunication between myself, and the AVI in Home. Cliff's letter from DL was legit, so for the 3rd time I apologize to you cliff, for calling you a liar. I also hope you can see where I was coming from and that I being wrong , am still a man of my word. DL also told me they are done sending AVI's to Home to act as babytsitters for our drama and post an official notice here to state all I've said. They told me how and why scores on the leaderboard were frozen, and why the new rule was put into effect, exactly as I said in my last post.They are going to be focusing on fixing the game problems and making the games fun, and leaving the drama to us, as it should be, and I applaud them for taking the time to answer all my concerns and questions, as well as refunding players when they lose thier chips due to problems not of the players fault. This is my last post on the subject and I hope DL's post will be the last word on this subject.

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First Son
Registered: 01/04/2013
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Re: Regarding the drama in VIP@casino 2/1

Jan 7, 2013

Thank you for the apology, Sakerio. The "drama" regarding the leaderboard really got out of hand during season 2, but it was largely instigated by a couple of individuals who IMO couldn't handle being passed on the leaderboard by women, as the only two people they accused of cheating were the two women active on the leaderboard. As someone who conducts research on gender issues for a living, I know that this is unfortunately a common occurence even today, but it still doesn't make it right. But I know that was not your motivation; it was clearly a big misunderstanding.

 

I also appreciate DL going beyond the scope of their jobs as developers to clear up the "drama" issues we've had over the last few months. There aren't many game developers, on Home or elsewhere, that are concerned enough about their customers to do this kind of thing. So thank you very much DL!

 

I'm not going for the leaderboard this season, but I hope those who do don't have to deal with this craziness. I would also like to suggest for future seasons that if the leaderboard was calculated on a win/loss ratio of some type, rather than total accumulative winnings, then "donking" would not be an issue. "Chip dumping" and other shady ways of boosting earnings would no longer be a viable way of getting ahead on the leaderboard, and the "poofing" issues would not be quite as frustrating (assuming they don't count as a loss).

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