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Re: is Backward Compatibility important to you?

Sep 15, 2012

FunkyFish25 wrote:
Is it important to me? Not really. Was it a selling point for me with the PS2, sure. But it's not now, I have a PS2 that works great for PS2 and PS1 games. I have a PS3 that works great for PS3 and PS1
Games. It's really a non-issue for me at this point.

As for why it was removed the answers are simple. COST CUTTING, to get the system down to a more desirable price point Sony had to reduced the manufacturing costs. That meant removing the SD and Flash drives, removing two USB ports, and removing the very feature that was a primary culprit to 60 gig YLOD, the PS2 hardware.

Now for issues concerning emulation, it works best when the system architecture is similar, which the PS2 and PS3 and very far removed from each other, making emulation very difficult.

Lastly people were b****ing when the cost of the system was $600+. The system launch was slow as a result. So Sony looked into cutting costs, and the only way they could do it was by removing the systems least used features. Now you have a system that costs only 1/3 of its launch price, and you people are still complaining!

2007
"Screw Sony! They charge too much money for the system, I'm not buying it 'til we get a price cut!"

2012
"Screw Sony!They don't give me what I want, even though I don't think I should have to pay for the extra hardware!"

Do you see the dichotomy here?


Sony has gone on record to say that removing PS2 BC wasn't done for cost reasons, I understand that it is natural to believe otherwise, but that isn't the case.

 

http://kotaku.com/312628/jack-tretton-says-dropping-bc-wasnt-for-cost-measures

 

Also the cause of the YLOD is usually fractured connections under the GPU chip, it has nothing to do with the PS2 hardware on the PS3 motherboard.

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Re: is Backward Compatibility important to you?

Sep 15, 2012

It's not a deal-breaker, but I'd like BC on the PS4.  As long as there is PSN BC I think it's enough.  If it played all games back to PS1, I would almost certainly buy it at launch and take advantage of that convenience.  It's not that important to me, but it is convenient.

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First Son
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Re: is Backward Compatibility important to you?

Sep 15, 2012
Actually the PS2 hardware was notorious for running hot even in the original PS2 casing. An PS2 slims had a habit of running so hot they actually melted discs in the drive when they first hit the market. And running a lot of PS2 games was one of the primary reasons for the connections to the motherboard coming loose. I used to to run PS2 games on my old 60 gig quite often, and afterwards the system would be hot to the touch. It ran quiet and cool when running blu-ray or ps3 format. But as soon as a PS2 format went in, it ran hot. However, it was not the only cause. Combine that with the larger, hotter, more power hungry chip set the first gen models used and it was a recipe for failure. And mine eventually did just that. And if it was just an issue with the glue coming apart then how do you explain the fact that first gen 20, 40, and 80 gigs have a much lower failure rate than the 60 gigs? They used all the same parts, they were manufactured using the same glue, the only difference was the lack of a PS2 chipset.

And despite what Sony may say about the removal of the BC hardware not being cost related, you can't deny that as soon as it was removed in later model PS3's, that's when the price drops began to occur.
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Re: is Backward Compatibility important to you?

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Sep 16, 2012

FunkyFish25 wrote:
Actually the PS2 hardware was notorious for running hot even in the original PS2 casing. An PS2 slims had a habit of running so hot they actually melted discs in the drive when they first hit the market. And running a lot of PS2 games was one of the primary reasons for the connections to the motherboard coming loose. I used to to run PS2 games on my old 60 gig quite often, and afterwards the system would be hot to the touch. It ran quiet and cool when running blu-ray or ps3 format. But as soon as a PS2 format went in, it ran hot. However, it was not the only cause. Combine that with the larger, hotter, more power hungry chip set the first gen models used and it was a recipe for failure. And mine eventually did just that. And if it was just an issue with the glue coming apart then how do you explain the fact that first gen 20, 40, and 80 gigs have a much lower failure rate than the 60 gigs? They used all the same parts, they were manufactured using the same glue, the only difference was the lack of a PS2 chipset.

And despite what Sony may say about the removal of the BC hardware not being cost related, you can't deny that as soon as it was removed in later model PS3's, that's when the price drops began to occur.

You are making quite a few assumptions there. I can't speak about PS2 slims melting discs, because I never heard about that.

 

As for PS2 causing the 60GB to run hotter, I also found that when I run PS2 games my fan tends to run hotter, but I equate that to the PS3 hardware upconverting the graphics to HD on a HDTV. When I previously played those games on a SDTV, it didn't run nearly as hot.

 

As far as the cause of YLOD is concerned, I have been in contact with a 3rd party repair company and according to them the most likely cause on these older models is solder fractures under the GPU. Even the YLOD fixes and videos you see all over the internet never mention the PS2 chip on the motherboard, it is always the CPU and GPU that is what the fix is concentrated on.

 

I do agree that the 20GB & 60GB have nearly identical motherboards, there is likely less of a problem noted for 20GB systems simply because Sony cut production of them early, so not as many of them exist. Actually people have been complaining about YLOD issues on all fat PS3 models, and there aren't any official failure rates on any of these console models. Other than issues with lead free solder, it is believed that the thermal paste put in these models dry out (after a few years) and cause these PS3s to overheat and fail.

 

As for the price drop when BC was removed, those cost reductions were made primarilly from less costly component chips, Blu-Ray drive, and manufacturing process. The first PS3 without BC has a lot less components (over 1,200 less) on the motherboard making it cheaper to manufacture. Originally BC accounted for only about 5% of the cost in the 60GB, even less in the 80GB since it was just only the PS2's GPU. I can understand why one would assume that PS2 BC removal was the cause of the price drop, but there is a lot more to it than that...

 

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/9522-isuppli-ps3-production-costs-drop-35-percent-for-newer-hardware/

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Re: is Backward compibility important to you?

Sep 16, 2012

i think you should be able to play all the playstatios  game one the  systems..... You should be able to put in any playstaion game in and play it

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Re: is Backward compibility important to you?

Sep 16, 2012

hoppen2win wrote:

i think you should be able to play all the playstatios  game one the  systems..... You should be able to put in any playstaion game in and play it


If you only knew how hard that would be

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Re: is Backward compibility important to you?

Sep 16, 2012

hoppen2win wrote:

i think you should be able to play all the playstatios  game one the  systems..... You should be able to put in any playstaion game in and play it


That would be nice, however for that to easily happen there needs to be a commonality between the CPU/GPU between the systems. Only Nintendo is able to do that since they have used the same company's CPU/GPU from the GameCube to the WiiU...

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Re: is Backward compibility important to you?

Sep 16, 2012

It would be nice if the PS4 was backwards compatible, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me to buy it if it was not.

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Re: is Backward compibility important to you?

Sep 17, 2012

Logical_Dolphin wrote:

hoppen2win wrote:

i think you should be able to play all the playstatios  game one the  systems..... You should be able to put in any playstaion game in and play it


That would be nice, however for that to easily happen there needs to be a commonality between the CPU/GPU between the systems. Only Nintendo is able to do that since they have used the same company's CPU/GPU from the GameCube to the WiiU...


I was not aware of that.  And yet they still removed GC BC.

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Re: is Backward compibility important to you?

Sep 17, 2012

JERM7 wrote:

Logical_Dolphin wrote:

hoppen2win wrote:

i think you should be able to play all the playstatios  game one the  systems..... You should be able to put in any playstaion game in and play it


That would be nice, however for that to easily happen there needs to be a commonality between the CPU/GPU between the systems. Only Nintendo is able to do that since they have used the same company's CPU/GPU from the GameCube to the WiiU...


I was not aware of that.  And yet they still removed GC BC.


Nintendo was very quiet about it, and the news media barely covered the story. I believe the reason the newest version can't play GameCube games was that Nintendo eliminated the GC controller and memory card ports from the unit, and those are required to play GameCube games... 

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