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MVP Support
Registered: 08/28/2008
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Re: * The Playstation 3 Can Have NTFS Support - This Is How If You Want It! *

Nov 5, 2009

DasFox wrote:

Vicious_Dave wrote:
I don't see the need for this feature, if you want to connect a USB external HDD, just format your hard drive in fat32 first.  You know Windows XP is fat32 by default right?  So is every other Windows OS below it.  Vista and 7 are NTFS standard.  I believe you can still make them fat32 formatted if you wanted to.  The whole problem with fat32 is it's limmited with the ammount of ram it can use.  Anyways, who cares about the file system, because if your smart, just format it in fat32, and buy another external HDD for your PC or Mac, so you don't have to reformat it all the time!

 

You don't seem to understand the reasons why you don't want to use FAT32.

 

Better security - As a 'Journaled' File System

Better clustering/faster

Less fragmentation

 

These are a few GREAT reasons to use NTFS.

 

NTFS has been around since NT started, it was the file system created for NT, that was in 1993.

Message Edited by DasFox on 11-04-2009 06:20 PM

You list great reasons for using NTFS on a computer.  How about some reasons/benefits to using NTFS on an external drive for a PS3?  I just don't see the need.  Of course, I only use the external HDD as a place for my monthly PS3 backup.  I really don't see the need to transfer anything else from the PS3 to the external drive (I currently have 95GB of a 160GB internal HDD free, so internal space is not currently an issue).

 

As for your reasons for using NTFS...

 

Security - on the PS3, the content from the PS3 on the external HDD is encoded by the PS3 that put it there.  Computers see the contents of the drive, yes, but they can't do anything with the files themselves (except Music, Video, etc).  Backup and other files can't be used by any PS3 except for the one that wrote them to the HDD.

 

Better Clustering - Again, not sure how this would make a difference on the PS3.  Full backups are fully optimized and automated by the PS3.  On my backup drive, an example file (archive2_07.dat) is displayed as using 3.99GB (4,294,966,784 bytes).  Size on disk: 3.99GB (4,294,966,784 bytes).  What clustering issues are you talking about, again?

 

Faster - Uh, it's a USB2.0 drive.  The speed of the HDD isn't the limiting factor.

 

Less Fragmentation - Again, only an issue when you are writing individual files.  How often do you do that, again?

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Fender Bender
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Re: * The Playstation 3 Can Have NTFS Support - This Is How If You Want It! *

Nov 5, 2009
Sony doesn't want to support NTFS for security reasons. If/when their PS3 system gets hacked, people won't be able to load PS3 games off an external hard drive because of the file size limit of FAT32. Then again, if/when the PS3 gets hacked they could always develop their own driver for NTFS. Besides that, people could copy full movies to PS3 using NTFS.


   

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: * The Playstation 3 Can Have NTFS Support - This Is How If You Want It! *

Nov 5, 2009

DPyro wrote:
Sony doesn't want to support NTFS for security reasons. If/when their PS3 system gets hacked, people won't be able to load PS3 games off an external hard drive because of the file size limit of FAT32. Then again, if/when the PS3 gets hacked they could always develop their own driver for NTFS. Besides that, people could copy full movies to PS3 using NTFS.
Ah ha!  So to reply in others reply to me.  I have this guy's quote to back me up.  Seeing as Windows now uses NTFS, if the PS3 also used NTFS, it would be a more hackable system as Windows is virus prone, and most people run Windows with the default of NTFS.  Why did Sony chose Fat32 (windows old file format system)?  I don't know, and have no clue.  But as far as security goes, Fat32 is more secure to not get viruses and hacked than NTFS is, seeing as NTFS has been a Windows standard for a couple 4 almost 5 years now.  There are no limitations to fat32 other than ram limitations.  Another thing you might like to know is that most linux distros are also in fat32, I've used all the versions of ubuntu, and they all require me to partition a HDD space on my computer in fat32.  But, seeing as it is fat32, ram is limited at 4GB I believe.  PS3 does not have a problem, PS4 might have a problem though if Sony choses to include more ram than 4GB.  Seeing as 512MB is the standard now, I see the next gen systems only using a max of 2GB of memory.  In other news, it's rumored Sony will use Intel everything on the PS4, including CPU and GPU, it is widely rumored Intel will have a next generation GPU which trumps anything Nvidia or ATI has ever offered.

 

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: * The Playstation 3 Can Have NTFS Support - This Is How If You Want It! *

Nov 5, 2009

Vicious_Dave wrote:

DPyro wrote:
Sony doesn't want to support NTFS for security reasons. If/when their PS3 system gets hacked, people won't be able to load PS3 games off an external hard drive because of the file size limit of FAT32. Then again, if/when the PS3 gets hacked they could always develop their own driver for NTFS. Besides that, people could copy full movies to PS3 using NTFS.
Ah ha!  So to reply in others reply to me.  I have this guy's quote to back me up.  Seeing as Windows now uses NTFS, if the PS3 also used NTFS, it would be a more hackable system as Windows is virus prone, and most people run Windows with the default of NTFS.  Why did Sony chose Fat32 (windows old file format system)?  I don't know, and have no clue.  But as far as security goes, Fat32 is more secure to not get viruses and hacked than NTFS is, seeing as NTFS has been a Windows standard for a couple 4 almost 5 years now.  There are no limitations to fat32 other than ram limitations.  Another thing you might like to know is that most linux distros are also in fat32, I've used all the versions of ubuntu, and they all require me to partition a HDD space on my computer in fat32.  But, seeing as it is fat32, ram is limited at 4GB I believe.  PS3 does not have a problem, PS4 might have a problem though if Sony choses to include more ram than 4GB.  Seeing as 512MB is the standard now, I see the next gen systems only using a max of 2GB of memory.  In other news, it's rumored Sony will use Intel everything on the PS4, including CPU and GPU, it is widely rumored Intel will have a next generation GPU which trumps anything Nvidia or ATI has ever offered.

 


 

  The file system isn't as much to blame for viruses and security issues as much as the OS it hosts. There is no end all fs as they each have specialized uses, ie NTFS for multi-user systems.

The 4GB limit is not for the ram but for any individual file.

 

Also, requiring source of this rumor. On a related note regarding USB 3.0, Intel hate.

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Fender Bender
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Re: * The Playstation 3 Can Have NTFS Support - This Is How If You Want It! *

Nov 5, 2009

I would like NTFS support, I have a few files larger than 4 GB that I can't watch on my PS3 due to FAT limitations.

 

open source = free

There is nothing to charge for if Sony can just copy the code and put credits to the company in their about list.

 

Another thing we need support for is MKV containers and soft-subs. Most of my anime is MKV.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: * The Playstation 3 Can Have NTFS Support - This Is How If You Want It! *

Nov 5, 2009

Techni wrote:

I would like NTFS support, I have a few files larger than 4 GB that I can't watch on my PS3 due to FAT limitations.

 

open source = free

There is nothing to charge for if Sony can just copy the code and put credits to the company in their about list.

 

Another thing we need support for is MKV containers and soft-subs. Most of my anime is MKV.


Using open source in a commercial application is not free (most of the time). Copying code violates copyright laws.

I will not accept your friend request, so dont bother.
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: * The Playstation 3 Can Have NTFS Support - This Is How If You Want It! *

Nov 5, 2009

CookieMonster wrote:

Techni wrote:

I would like NTFS support, I have a few files larger than 4 GB that I can't watch on my PS3 due to FAT limitations.

 

open source = free

There is nothing to charge for if Sony can just copy the code and put credits to the company in their about list.

 

Another thing we need support for is MKV containers and soft-subs. Most of my anime is MKV.


Using open source in a commercial application is not free (most of the time). Copying code violates copyright laws.


cookiemonster is right. 

 

let's say you write a program and release it as open source and under the gpl.  if a business likes your program and sees how they can make money off of it, would you be okay with watching them make money off of your hard work without any compensation to you?  i hope not.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: * The Playstation 3 Can Have NTFS Support - This Is How If You Want It! *

Nov 6, 2009

The bottom line here is, no matter what anyone says, the TRUTH of the matter is that NTFS is a better filesystem, FACT!

 

No one goes out and buys FAT32 external hard drives, there are no reasons to use them, you'll only see some companies making them fat32 like Western Digital's Passport for people to use on Macs, but you don't need it either since OS X supports NTFS read and write.

 

The PS3 is not just a gaming console it is also a media device for many multimedia applications. I personally use mine to watch h264 and xvid videos.

 

Let's stop going backwards here people, it's abusrd to lock people into a multimedia device like the PS3 and limit them to fat32. Don't you realize how old of a file system fat32 is?

 

Let's look at it this way, it would be foolish to run XP, Vista, or Windows 7 with the entire drive as FAT32, yet people seem to find it acceptable for the PS3 and it's not.

 

If security is the problem, then Sony just needs to find a way around that, but let's not lock people out and have them use an obsolete filesystem just for these reasons. 

 

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: * The Playstation 3 Can Have NTFS Support - This Is How If You Want It! *

Nov 6, 2009

Tsukiyoshi wrote:

Vicious_Dave wrote:

DPyro wrote:
Sony doesn't want to support NTFS for security reasons. If/when their PS3 system gets hacked, people won't be able to load PS3 games off an external hard drive because of the file size limit of FAT32. Then again, if/when the PS3 gets hacked they could always develop their own driver for NTFS. Besides that, people could copy full movies to PS3 using NTFS.
Ah ha!  So to reply in others reply to me.  I have this guy's quote to back me up.  Seeing as Windows now uses NTFS, if the PS3 also used NTFS, it would be a more hackable system as Windows is virus prone, and most people run Windows with the default of NTFS.  Why did Sony chose Fat32 (windows old file format system)?  I don't know, and have no clue.  But as far as security goes, Fat32 is more secure to not get viruses and hacked than NTFS is, seeing as NTFS has been a Windows standard for a couple 4 almost 5 years now.  There are no limitations to fat32 other than ram limitations.  Another thing you might like to know is that most linux distros are also in fat32, I've used all the versions of ubuntu, and they all require me to partition a HDD space on my computer in fat32.  But, seeing as it is fat32, ram is limited at 4GB I believe.  PS3 does not have a problem, PS4 might have a problem though if Sony choses to include more ram than 4GB.  Seeing as 512MB is the standard now, I see the next gen systems only using a max of 2GB of memory.  In other news, it's rumored Sony will use Intel everything on the PS4, including CPU and GPU, it is widely rumored Intel will have a next generation GPU which trumps anything Nvidia or ATI has ever offered.

 


 

  The file system isn't as much to blame for viruses and security issues as much as the OS it hosts. There is no end all fs as they each have specialized uses, ie NTFS for multi-user systems.

The 4GB limit is not for the ram but for any individual file.

 

Also, requiring source of this rumor. On a related note regarding USB 3.0, Intel hate.


 

There are no benefits to having FAT32, it's only around for some odd backwards compatibility that the occassional outdated system can use is all. 

 
 
 
 
 

 
inginear wrote:

CookieMonster wrote:

Techni wrote:

I would like NTFS support, I have a few files larger than 4 GB that I can't watch on my PS3 due to FAT limitations.

 

open source = free

There is nothing to charge for if Sony can just copy the code and put credits to the company in their about list.

 

Another thing we need support for is MKV containers and soft-subs. Most of my anime is MKV.


Using open source in a commercial application is not free (most of the time). Copying code violates copyright laws.


cookiemonster is right. 

 

let's say you write a program and release it as open source and under the gpl.  if a business likes your program and sees how they can make money off of it, would you be okay with watching them make money off of your hard work without any compensation to you?  i hope not.


 

 

People have been making money in OpenSource for years...

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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: * The Playstation 3 Can Have NTFS Support - This Is How If You Want It! *

Nov 6, 2009
I have 100 movies on my external hard drive. I for one would love NTFS support. All 100 of those movies are spit into 2, 3, or 4 pieces to accomidate the FAT32 max file size.
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