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VP of Gaming
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Re: Sony Cannot Afford to Pull another "PS3" or "Vita"

Feb 25, 2013

Consoles are a loss leader. Just like your printer, they don't make a whole lot on them, but money is made on things that go with them. THE GAMES. Which is why backward compatibility isn't a good feature for the hardware maker. If you're playing your ten year old games, then you're not buying NEW games.

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Sony Cannot Afford to Pull another "PS3" or "Vita"

Feb 25, 2013

Tribble6 wrote:

CaptainAlbator wrote:

Tribble6 wrote:

I'm sure Sony will price the PS4 competitively, with Microsoft breathing down their neck, but at the of the day they have chosen to target the hardcore gamer market and it's all the more exciting for it. Sure, they will sell less games (it's clearly a smaller market), but they still have the potential to make a healthy profit doing so. 

 

To give you an analogy, some lucky people aren't the slightest bit interested in a Toyota Prius and only desire (and can afford) a Tesla Roadster.


You do realize that Prince Charles owns a Prius?


Lol Smiley Happy (don't let my signature fool you, I'm now in U.S.). Actually the Prius is quite a cool car, Prince Charles asside Smiley Wink (I believe quite a few movie stars own one), but you hardly think of the Prius when it comes to performance (great MPG is far less sexy, although good for our planet).


Which is the ultimate in irony because:

 

#1: By the time the special chemicals and components are shipped to Japan, and the batteries are made for the Prius, MORE pollution was released into the air than if they would have just made an equivalent gasoline car.

 

#2: The Prius gets quite crappy gas milage.  Maybe mid-40's.  Not really that great, considering you can literally get a full sized, Jaguar diesel sedan that'll do around 40 MPG in Europe, and a Volkswagen Rabbit diesel blue e-motion that's specially designed to be aerodynamic and lightweight, and can hit 78 MPG, no joke.  I don't understand why diesel cars didn't catch on over here....they're so much better than crappy hybrids in every way.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Sony Cannot Afford to Pull another "PS3" or "Vita"

Feb 25, 2013

Yeah, I hear you Tony72495 and I must admit I'd bought into the hype somewhat (my analogy still holds up though Smiley Wink). I'm super green myself (transport wise) and don't even own a car anymore (walk (fast - good exercise) 6+ miles each week for groceries), although for most that's hardly practical.

 

P.S. Back on topic, if the touted social aspects and background downloading of PS4 result in it costing $50 more than 720, some might go for 720 with extra game instead (assuming 720 doesn't also have similar features). Perhaps comes down to how affordable PS4 ultimately turns out to be, say in $400 price range and not $500 range.

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Re: Sony Cannot Afford to Pull another "PS3" or "Vita"

Feb 25, 2013

Tony72495 wrote:

Tribble6 wrote:

CaptainAlbator wrote:

Tribble6 wrote:

I'm sure Sony will price the PS4 competitively, with Microsoft breathing down their neck, but at the of the day they have chosen to target the hardcore gamer market and it's all the more exciting for it. Sure, they will sell less games (it's clearly a smaller market), but they still have the potential to make a healthy profit doing so. 

 

To give you an analogy, some lucky people aren't the slightest bit interested in a Toyota Prius and only desire (and can afford) a Tesla Roadster.


You do realize that Prince Charles owns a Prius?


Lol Smiley Happy (don't let my signature fool you, I'm now in U.S.). Actually the Prius is quite a cool car, Prince Charles asside Smiley Wink (I believe quite a few movie stars own one), but you hardly think of the Prius when it comes to performance (great MPG is far less sexy, although good for our planet).


Which is the ultimate in irony because:

 

#1: By the time the special chemicals and components are shipped to Japan, and the batteries are made for the Prius, MORE pollution was released into the air than if they would have just made an equivalent gasoline car.

 

#2: The Prius gets quite crappy gas milage.  Maybe mid-40's.  Not really that great, considering you can literally get a full sized, Jaguar diesel sedan that'll do around 40 MPG in Europe, and a Volkswagen Rabbit diesel blue e-motion that's specially designed to be aerodynamic and lightweight, and can hit 78 MPG, no joke.  I don't understand why diesel cars didn't catch on over here....they're so much better than crappy hybrids in every way.


This is why i'm waiting for Mazda to launch their Skyactive-D diese engine in the CX-5 and 6.... Two very attractive vehicles. And they've already proven the performance with SpeedSorurce getting 450hp out the engine with 60% of the parts being stock/factory/original OEM. 

I'll gladly get rid of my BMW 335i for it.

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Welcoming Committee
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Re: Sony Cannot Afford to Pull another "PS3" or "Vita"

Feb 25, 2013

This car thing just killed me. I have a '91 Jeep Wrangler. My 5mpg American-made car is better than your 45mpg Japanese-made Prius in many ways. Ummm.....well.... I can take my roof off and get the sunlight. Ummmm....my Jeep turns on a dime and, if you do it right, it WON'T even roll over! Plus, I get the "Wrangler wave" where, if you see another old Wrangler, the guy will be obligated to wave at you. I kid not, this is a real thing.


Welcoming Committee- "The business of gaming is business"
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Sony Cannot Afford to Pull another "PS3" or "Vita"

[ Edited ]
Feb 25, 2013

I was reading an article on Gamasutra today, and Jack Tretton acted like a stupid, egotistical noob. In the article, Tretton is quoted saying:


"I think people are willing to pay if they see the value there, and I think there's more choice than ever before for consumers. I think those are additive experiences. They demystify gaming. They bring people in with a bite-sized experience. But ultimately I think people migrate up the food chain," he said, though he did admit that the PlayStation 4 will support free-to-play games.

"Conversely, if you're someone who considers themselves a true gamer, and wants to play the most powerful devices and the most deep enriching gaming experiences, you're not going to find yourself migrating down the food chain, other than to maybe kill some time or to complement that core gaming experience."

What Tretton is basically saying is that all the casual gamers that play Angry Birds, Doodle Jump, etc. on their cell phones will eventually buy a PS4 because they will decide they want to play on a console. Additionally, he says that the PS4 is a great value, and consumers will see that and buy a PS3. 

If I remember correctly--I'll have to find a source to back this up--a Sony executive made a similar remark about the PlayStation 3, and we all know how that turned out for the PS3 in its early years.

This leads me to believe that the PS4 will be expensive and probably more expensive than the next Xbox and Wii U. In fact, the author of the article says that "Tretton didn't even flinch when a CNBC reporter suggested the PlayStation 4 might be $600."

 

 

EDIT: Ah, yes, here we go: http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2002986247_webethree11.html

 

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Sony Cannot Afford to Pull another "PS3" or "Vita"

Feb 25, 2013

I doubt they'll pull another 599 usd mistake again,very hard lessons we're learned this gen.

 

And as for the Vita,sony simply does not give a **bleep** about the glorious handheld and simply won't support it at all.

But on the console front they won't dare to pull that with the ps4.

 

The sony conf actually impressed me and you could see they learned from their mistakes(they went straight into the features and showcased alot of games).

They're also playing it smart by releasing a price point at E3(microsoft is responding with it's very own conference,if they announce a price beforehand it will give sony a big advantage)

And from the looks of it most of sony's first party effort is going to the ps4....not like they have a dying handheld in need of support anyways.

Also if microsoft screws up by applying that no-used game crap sony has this in the bag.

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Platinum
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Re: Sony Cannot Afford to Pull another "PS3" or "Vita"

Feb 26, 2013

S0UTHERN_C0MF0RT wrote:

NOTE: This post will be long. There is a tl;dr at the end if you do not wish to read this wall of text. I hope you will read my wall of text, though Smiley Happy

Most of us remember it: the reveal of the PlayStation 3 and, soon thereafter, the announcement of the console’s price. Most people were stunned at the shocking price, and the price led to a loss of potential customers. The PlayStation Vita, alongside the rise of smartphones and tablets, has also suffered at the hands of a hefty price tag. There seems to be an existing pattern, but this pattern is a dreadful and loathsome aversion looking ahead towards the PlayStation 4. Needless to say, there’s not many, except Xbox or Nintendo fanboys, who hope that the PS4’s price is abhorrently high.

“$600?! Is Sony Insane?!” This was the reaction by a large portion of the general population aware of the PS3. Before the PS3’s release, Sony had been building up a lot of momentum for the PlayStation 3, following the PlayStation 2’s incredible success; however, Sony lost more steam than they would have liked upon the announcement of the next-generation console’s price. Years of biting the bullet and trying to keep the PS3 in the game by lowering its price, providing top-notch games, and increasing the console’s features was the obvious fate of Sony. Thankfully, the PlayStation 3 has reached a varying price point of $250 to $300 at the end of 2012. Unfortunately, the PlayStation Vita has yet to see this kind of life-breathing price cut.

Straightforwardly, the PlayStation Vita is getting manhandled by the likes of the Nintendo 3DS, smartphones, and tablets – there is no way around admitting this. Initially, there was hope for the portable device around the time of the 3DS’ struggling months, but this ray of sunshine diminished quickly once Nintendo sent the ball rolling for the 3DS and once Sony announced the gut-wrenching price of the Vita: $250 or $300, depending on which model consumers bought. For some reason, Sony acted in the belief that the average consumer knew that the PlayStation Vita was more powerful and better than the Nintendo 3DS, and that consumers would flock to the $250 handheld. One must understand, though, that the Nintendo 3DS started out at $250, but Nintendo slashed the price before the Vita’s price was announced; Sony had a good deal of time to set the price of the PlayStation Vita to $150 or $200. Currently, the Vita has seen only one price drop since its release of holiday 2011, and this price cut has only affected PlayStation Vitas in Japan. It is hard to admit, but the PlayStation Vita has a few similarities with the PSPgo’s sales performance, and one can only keep their fingers crossed that the PlayStation 4 does not suffer the same fate of the PS3’s early days.

Sony Computer Entertainment cannot face another event like the infant days of the PlayStation 3 and survive as well as they did. With Sony losing so much money in the past months, the company needs a fresh breath of air, and Sony has already stated that they have placed the pressure on the shoulders of PlayStation. If consumers do not feed off the PS4, Sony could see very tragic losses and potentially terminations of Sony Computer Entertainment or other departments in the company. On one hand, Sony has stolen the show with their press conference and announcement of the PS4 and with initially pricing the PS4 with the Wii U and next Xbox, Sony could see major success and the return to the king of console gaming, as with the days of the PlayStation 2. On the flip side of the coin, though, if Sony sets the price of the PS4 significantly higher than that of its competitors, another set of dark days is in store for Sony and its console. In the end, this matter of failure and triumph rests upon how Sony prices the PlayStation 4.

For this reason, Sony should bring out the big guns with the PS4 – they must pull out all the stops and bring their ‘A game’. Without a doubt, the average consumer cares only about the price when it comes to video games. In fact, the hardcore gamer is a minority compared to the average consumer because most people do not research which console is better. No, most people see a price tag, and they buy what their friends and family buy; “word of mouth” is the best kind of advertisement, and it is exactly why Call of Duty is so popular, as well as the Nintendo Wii.

Reviewing the battle between the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, the Xbox 360 has generally been the leader because of its consumer backing and price – with a year head start, Microsoft had the opportunity—and they seized this opportunity—to collect consumer loyalty and run with the torch. As the PlayStation 3 released with two models, ranging between $500 and $600, the Xbox 360 continued to soak in gamers because the extra year Microsoft dealt allowed them to attract users who then told their friends; these friends bought a 360 because they wanted to play with their friends, too. Tacking on a more-attractive price, the Xbox 360 wiped the floor with the PS3 in the two consoles’ early days.

Switching back to the Wii, Nintendo’s console is a joke, comparing its specs and those of the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. However, the Wii overcame adversity and took home the crown of the seventh generation of consoles. Obviously, the Nintendo Wii did not achieve success because of its powerful processing and mind-blowing graphics. No, Nintendo’s console rolled into the winner’s circle because of the consumers it attracted, and how these consumers brought their friends. Matching this word-of-mouth advertising with an enticing $250 price tag brought the Wii first place. With this in mind, it is pertinent that Sony use the same strategy with the PlayStation 4.

No doubt, Sony has millions of people buzzing about the PS4, and using this publicity with a competitive price for its console will draw in much-needed (and deserved) revenue. Again, the average consumer does not care about which console has more RAM, an AMD Radeon GPU, or can process 1.8 teraflops of data per second; nor does the average consumer care that a console has 4K support for video and images or game footage sharing. Most consumers care about what is popular and a price tag. If Sony is serious about beating its competitors, they need to price their console cheaper or at the same price as the Wii U or next Xbox. In addition, Sony must attract gamers from both hardcore and casual fields to their console. Assuming that every customer is aware of the PS4’s capabilities and thus pricing the PS4 over its competitors will not work, as shown by the Vita and PS3. Sony has hit the ground running with their reveal of the PlayStation 4, and they need to keep progressing and keep their console economically competitive.

In conclusion, history details the account of the PlayStation 3 and PlayStation Vita’s lackluster sales, at least in their infant days (in the PlayStation 3’s case). It is a well-known fact that both the Nintendo Wii and Xbox 360 wiped the floor with the PS3 in the early days of Sony’s console. Furthermore, the same occurred with the PlayStation Vita, seeing how the Nintendo 3DS has been outselling the Vita consistently. If Sony’s objective is to beat its competitors in the next generation of consoles, they need to price the PlayStation 4 on par or lower than its rivals. The PlayStation 4 is en route to giving the first place trophy back to Sony, but slowing the PS4’s momentum with a greater price than the next Xbox or Wii U could change this. Sony, I hope you are listening, and I hope you heed my words – this is your game; bring the rain.


tl;dr
Sony, you need to price your console competitively with the Wii U or next Xbox. The average consumer does not care about which console is more powerful or which console has more features. The average customer cares about what their friends and family are playing and the price tag; this is proven by the PlayStation 3 (in its early days) and the PlayStation Vita’s sales.


Yup and one other thing I want to add.  Having a press conference that lacks certain details such as price point, requirements to game online (pay to play, still able to do free, tiered levels of pay to be online with different benefits)...how does this "cloud/ps3 games" thing work, and a few other details.     

Waiting for E3 for a more complete picture.  Right now I'm on the "i'll wait and see" plan.

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Big Daddy
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Re: Sony Cannot Afford to Pull another "PS3" or "Vita"

Feb 26, 2013

bob-maul wrote:

This car thing just killed me. I have a '91 Jeep Wrangler. My 5mpg American-made car is better than your 45mpg Japanese-made Prius in many ways. Ummm.....well.... I can take my roof off and get the sunlight. Ummmm....my Jeep turns on a dime and, if you do it right, it WON'T even roll over! Plus, I get the "Wrangler wave" where, if you see another old Wrangler, the guy will be obligated to wave at you. I kid not, this is a real thing.


Meh, I'm not one into the off-road thing.... but if I get the CX-5... I might just start looking into some light off-roading with it

I hate the Prius with a passion.... it makes more pollution just in production than it does making thousands of other vehicles that are somewhat less fuel efficient.

I love diesels... I get Prius like Mileage, with the potential to be faster....

But if I wanted to be fast, I'd be driving my toy....

rx71

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Sony Cannot Afford to Pull another "PS3" or "Vita"

Feb 27, 2013

ColorlessMage wrote:

I doubt they'll pull another 599 usd mistake again,very hard lessons we're learned this gen.

 

And as for the Vita,sony simply does not give a **bleep** about the glorious handheld and simply won't support it at all.

But on the console front they won't dare to pull that with the ps4.

 

The sony conf actually impressed me and you could see they learned from their mistakes(they went straight into the features and showcased alot of games).

They're also playing it smart by releasing a price point at E3(microsoft is responding with it's very own conference,if they announce a price beforehand it will give sony a big advantage)

And from the looks of it most of sony's first party effort is going to the ps4....not like they have a dying handheld in need of support anyways.

Also if microsoft screws up by applying that no-used game crap sony has this in the bag.


I don't think Sony has given up on the Vita just yet. If you remember from the conference, they were mentioning that the Vita will tie into the PS4. Hopefully will be smart and make a significant price to the Vita in North America and EU.

PlayStation MVP Program 2001 to 2016
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