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Apr 12 2013
By: Gamefreak9254 First Son 4 posts
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PS4 backwards compatibility or rendering equivalent..

24 replies 560 views Edited Apr 12, 2013

Hello PS community, fellow gamers, PS admins, basically anyone willing take a look and interest in this post.

 

I'm sure there are previous threads about this topic, I honestly just didn't want to take the time to go to previous ones, and felt a need to post my own. I do apologize for any repetitiveness by this post, but I feel it's a pretty serious issue.

 

I've been with both PS and Sony since I was old enough to know what either were respectively. I've only ever owned Playstation (aside from super nintendo and a majority of the handhelds, but Sony's never had pokemon...:smileytongue:), and what I always loved, up until the PS3 slims, was the ability to revisit old games. It is my understanding the PS4 will not be backwards compatible as far as the discs go, but will have all previous Playstation titles available by cloud, meaning digital copy only. I have no argument to this, because it gives me a way to further preserve my old discs, while still being able to enjoy the games. I feel this is a great addition to the Playstaton store, and Playstation in general.

 

However...what about the games we already have for past systems? Again, I understand everything will be available online, but why should we have to repurchase everything we've already spent money on? The game won't change by being digital, nor does it make it more valuable aside from not having to have a dsc any more.

 

I'm not necessarily saying PS4 should be made backwards compatible, even though Playstation fans, especially loyal and faithful ones, would love to see this, and I'm sure given the systems computing ablity, and raw power, it would be fairly simple to give it the capability of playing old games, seeing as the programming for the games already exists, and implementing a standby system, or an alternate bios/os in order to play them shouldn't be too difficult.

 

A rendering voucher, or something like that, should be implemented. Say, for example, you transfer all your save data from your PS3 to your PS4 (I'm assuming this will be possible. I own a 500gb entertainment edition, that's a lot of information to save and delete from third party devices to transfer over). And, with PS Store, you still have all past DLC content. But now, you can't play any of those games without repurchasing it because the disc is no longer usable. Wouldn't it be possible to make it to where if you have save data, DLC, and game data in the case of PS3 games, at the time of release of PS4, when you inserted an old disc, the game was automatically downloaded from the cloud at no cost? Or at least something to that effect. I understand the want of eliminating pre-owned games. Increases sales for games, because everyone would have to purchase new, decreases complaint volume about bad discs, or people valsifying purchase in order to receive a new copy, and Sony itself wouldn't have benefited from that person in the first place. 

 

Or even more so, why not just start with the next-gen games as not being able to be resold, and allow old games to still be played? PC has been using cd keys and product ID's for years, it's not our fault as consumers that this was never implemented into console gaming, granted installing games on consoles hasn't been much of a thing until the current generation.

 

Basically what I'm saying is we as a community shouldn't have to repurchase previous games we still have in posession in order to enjoy them, and something should be made available in order for us to download them for free. And if not for free, any games we have content and saves for should be made extremely cheap, regardless of popularity or demand.

 

And finally, as this would make my argument even more relevant, will the digital copies of all games be usable with old game, save, and DLC data and content? If not, I believe backwards compatibility is a must, regardless of how it's made possible. There's so a lot of premium content people receive for pre-ordering, buying at release, etc., not having use of these would be extremely frustrating.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: PS4 backwards compatibility or rendering equivalent..

Apr 12, 2013

Gamefreak9254 wrote:

Hello PS community, fellow gamers, PS admins, basically anyone willing take a look and interest in this post.

 

I'm sure there are previous threads about this topic, I honestly just didn't want to take the time to go to previous ones, and felt a need to post my own. I do apologize for any repetitiveness by this post, but I feel it's a pretty serious issue.

 

I've been with both PS and Sony since I was old enough to know what either were respectively. I've only ever owned Playstation (aside from super nintendo and a majority of the handhelds, but Sony's never had pokemon...:smileytongue:), and what I always loved, up until the PS3 slims, was the ability to revisit old games. It is my understanding the PS4 will not be backwards compatible as far as the discs go, but will have all previous Playstation titles available by cloud, meaning digital copy only. I have no argument to this, because it gives me a way to further preserve my old discs, while still being able to enjoy the games. I feel this is a great addition to the Playstaton store, and Playstation in general.

 

However...what about the games we already have for past systems? Again, I understand everything will be available online, but why should we have to repurchase everything we've already spent money on? The game won't change by being digital, nor does it make it more valuable aside from not having to have a dsc any more.

 

I'm not necessarily saying PS4 should be made backwards compatible, even though Playstation fans, especially loyal and faithful ones, would love to see this, and I'm sure given the systems computing ablity, and raw power, it would be fairly simple to give it the capability of playing old games, seeing as the programming for the games already exists, and implementing a standby system, or an alternate bios/os in order to play them shouldn't be too difficult.

 

A rendering voucher, or something like that, should be implemented. Say, for example, you transfer all your save data from your PS3 to your PS4 (I'm assuming this will be possible. I own a 500gb entertainment edition, that's a lot of information to save and delete from third party devices to transfer over). And, with PS Store, you still have all past DLC content. But now, you can't play any of those games without repurchasing it because the disc is no longer usable. Wouldn't it be possible to make it to where if you have save data, DLC, and game data in the case of PS3 games, at the time of release of PS4, when you inserted an old disc, the game was automatically downloaded from the cloud at no cost? Or at least something to that effect. I understand the want of eliminating pre-owned games. Increases sales for games, because everyone would have to purchase new, decreases complaint volume about bad discs, or people valsifying purchase in order to receive a new copy, and Sony itself wouldn't have benefited from that person in the first place. 

 

Or even more so, why not just start with the next-gen games as not being able to be resold, and allow old games to still be played? PC has been using cd keys and product ID's for years, it's not our fault as consumers that this was never implemented into console gaming, granted installing games on consoles hasn't been much of a thing until the current generation.

 

Basically what I'm saying is we as a community shouldn't have to repurchase previous games we still have in posession in order to enjoy them, and something should be made available in order for us to download them for free. And if not for free, any games we have content and saves for should be made extremely cheap, regardless of popularity or demand.

 

And finally, as this would make my argument even more relevant, will the digital copies of all games be usable with old game, save, and DLC data and content? If not, I believe backwards compatibility is a must, regardless of how it's made possible. There's so a lot of premium content people receive for pre-ordering, buying at release, etc., not having use of these would be extremely frustrating.


I doubt they will ever get every game able to be streamed on the PS4.

 

Sony says they will try to do this or that at some point basically just to shut up the people asking for backward compatibility.

 

When PS4 launches I guarantee this will not be possible.

 

Its one of those some day, maybe, if I get the chance, time, money, incentive to do it kinda things.

 

Sony has a great habit of bringing a new product out, making telling lots of big fish stories that help them sell that product then totally backing out once they have sold enough of them.

 

This includes promises of features which never come, taking away features we already have once we bought the product(Seen lots of that with the PS3), making bold statements and claims and then only ever producing less then a handful of working examples of said claims.(Remember PSP UMD discs being converted to digital format at local shops??  Ya me neither)

 

Do not expect the whole streaming via gaikai to ever come true, it may happen many years from now but will end up just like the promise Sony made about adding new PS2 games to the store every week, to date we have what maybe 30 ps2 games (Of over 1800 games total in the PS2 library)on the store and almost none that I would have ever bought for my PS2.

 

But I agree with you, if I own the disc I should get a discount at least on the digital version, the PS4 should be able to read the disc, and there must be some identifyer that could be read to only allow its use once.

Hawkfan267 wrote:
Seriously, there's just certain things that we must accept about the PS4. In time, it may get better, who knows.


dulun18 wrote:
**honestly if you still have your PS3.. and lot of games to go through.. there's no reason to jump onto the PS4 bandwagon just yet...
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Re: PS4 backwards compatibility or rendering equivalent..

Apr 13, 2013

This whole 'PS4 better be able to play PS3 games or I'm not buying it' thing is getting a bit silly.

 

You already have a perfectly good console to play PS3 games on.  It's called a PS3.  As for PS2 games, I don't currently own any.  The last two PS2 games I had (God of War and God of War II) were remade in HD for the PS3, so I no longer need the ability to play PS2 games (hence trading in my B/C PS3 for a slim about two years ago).

 

I am planning on buying a PS4.  And guess what?  I'm planning to play PS4 games on it.  If I ever feel the need to play a PS3 game again, I will have a PS3 to play it on, because I am not getting rid of one to buy the other.  My TV has two HDMI inputs.  The PS3 will be connected to one and the PS4 will be connected to the other.  As for space for two consoles, I think I'll be able to manage.

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Re: PS4 backwards compatibility or rendering equivalent..

Apr 13, 2013

I would love to see some crazy way to be able to get a free digital version of games you own already, however since I cannot fathom a way to do it I do not see it happening.

 

However I agree with the fact that it has no backwards compatability makes me sad, that is probably the only thing I am not happy with in the Next-Gen of gaming so far. I have a library of 100s of games and it is expensive to send in my old PS3 if it dies to keep it alive when the new system should be able to take its place. All arguments aside there is not much that can be done.

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Re: PS4 backwards compatibility or rendering equivalent..

[ Edited ]
Apr 13, 2013

Indeed, I do have a PS3 to play my PS3 games on, but I would prefer the PS4 play my PS3 games. I do have room for my PS3 and a PS4 and still, I would prefer the PS4 to be backwards compatible. Having all of these wires, devices, controllers, is just messy. I am a someone who prefers fewer devices. I want less devices that can do more, rather than have more devices than do less. Nothing we can do about it I guess...I still look forward to buying a PS4.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: PS4 backwards compatibility or rendering equivalent..

Apr 13, 2013

I don't think that any of that "Backwards Compatibility with the Cloud" stuff is really going to happen. For those of us with long memories, we remember Sony promised that we would be able to transfer PSP UMD disc games to the new PSP-Go.

 

Sony’s director of hardware marketing, John Koller, told Gizmodo:

“We're in the midst of putting together a good-will program. We'll be unveiling that soon [because] we actually think there's a significant group that will be upgrading from the 1000...In the past, we've seen a 20-25% trade-up factor, and I assume that's going to be the case here. We've modeled that. So we're looking at a good-will program—a short term good-will program that would continue for years afterward."
 
Koller went on to say that the service would be similar to the current Portable Copy service, which lets PS3 users rip and then transfer Blu-ray movies to their PSPs, just minus the disc ripping. It’s believed that the service will use some form of PSN digital distribution model (along with, I’m assuming, some kind of authentication process). It’s still unknown if the service will be free like Portable Copy, or even what titles it will support. But given that Sony seems to have been taking this option very seriously, I'm sure we'll know plenty more as we get closer to the PSP go's October 1 release date.

Anyone out there not planning on buying a PSP go unless it offers UMD transferring support?

 

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/696281/sony-working-on-umd-transfer-service-for-psp-go/

 

But guess what? That never happened.

 

Later Sony said: "We were evaluating a UMD conversion program, but due to legal and technical reasons we will not be offering the program at this time," a Sony representative told GameSpot.

 

http://www.gamespot.com/news/no-umd-conversion-for-psp-go-6230410 

 

So do not be surprised if the PS4 backwards compatible with the cloud thing, NEVER HAPPENS.

 

tumblr_mjjg6k1w5C1r1ult6o1_400.gif

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Re: PS4 backwards compatibility or rendering equivalent..

Apr 17, 2013

bronxsushi wrote:

I don't think that any of that "Backwards Compatibility with the Cloud" stuff is really going to happen. For those of us with long memories, we remember Sony promised that we would be able to transfer PSP UMD disc games to the new PSP-Go.

 

Sony’s director of hardware marketing, John Koller, told Gizmodo:

“We're in the midst of putting together a good-will program. We'll be unveiling that soon [because] we actually think there's a significant group that will be upgrading from the 1000...In the past, we've seen a 20-25% trade-up factor, and I assume that's going to be the case here. We've modeled that. So we're looking at a good-will program—a short term good-will program that would continue for years afterward."
 
Koller went on to say that the service would be similar to the current Portable Copy service, which lets PS3 users rip and then transfer Blu-ray movies to their PSPs, just minus the disc ripping. It’s believed that the service will use some form of PSN digital distribution model (along with, I’m assuming, some kind of authentication process). It’s still unknown if the service will be free like Portable Copy, or even what titles it will support. But given that Sony seems to have been taking this option very seriously, I'm sure we'll know plenty more as we get closer to the PSP go's October 1 release date.

Anyone out there not planning on buying a PSP go unless it offers UMD transferring support?

 

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/696281/sony-working-on-umd-transfer-service-for-psp-go/

 

But guess what? That never happened.

 

Later Sony said: "We were evaluating a UMD conversion program, but due to legal and technical reasons we will not be offering the program at this time," a Sony representative told GameSpot.

 

http://www.gamespot.com/news/no-umd-conversion-for-psp-go-6230410 

 

So do not be surprised if the PS4 backwards compatible with the cloud thing, NEVER HAPPENS.

 

tumblr_mjjg6k1w5C1r1ult6o1_400.gif


Yes sir, someone with a memory!!

 

The first time was shame on them, if they get us this time its shame on us.

 

+1

 

 

Hawkfan267 wrote:
Seriously, there's just certain things that we must accept about the PS4. In time, it may get better, who knows.


dulun18 wrote:
**honestly if you still have your PS3.. and lot of games to go through.. there's no reason to jump onto the PS4 bandwagon just yet...
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Re: PS4 backwards compatibility or rendering equivalent..

Apr 17, 2013
Keep your PS3. Problem solved!
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Re: PS4 backwards compatibility or rendering equivalent..

Apr 17, 2013

Doppelgangergang wrote:
Keep your PS3. Problem solved!

But...but... surely our PS3s will all die once the PS4 comes out!

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: PS4 backwards compatibility or rendering equivalent..

Apr 17, 2013

BBurgSteve wrote:

This whole 'PS4 better be able to play PS3 games or I'm not buying it' thing is getting a bit silly.

 

You already have a perfectly good console to play PS3 games on.  It's called a PS3.  As for PS2 games, I don't currently own any.  The last two PS2 games I had (God of War and God of War II) were remade in HD for the PS3, so I no longer need the ability to play PS2 games (hence trading in my B/C PS3 for a slim about two years ago).

 

I am planning on buying a PS4.  And guess what?  I'm planning to play PS4 games on it.  If I ever feel the need to play a PS3 game again, I will have a PS3 to play it on, because I am not getting rid of one to buy the other.  My TV has two HDMI inputs.  The PS3 will be connected to one and the PS4 will be connected to the other.  As for space for two consoles, I think I'll be able to manage.


This explains a lot.

 

So because you have no need for BC, everyone should shut up?

 

Some of us had more then 2 PS2 games, and loved the fact we could play them all on our PS3's.

 

Heck some of us loved PS2 more then PS3, the decision to buy a PS3 was a no-brainer as it made our beloved ps2 games better.

 

Thats I think the main point many of us are making.  I have always considered my Sony consoles as fantastic deals.

 

The PS1 got me into a CD player back when all I had was cassette.  The music visualization was trippy and a valued feature.

 

The PS2 got me into a DVD player back when all I had was VHS. (At less then the cost of a stand alone DVD player back in those days) The Fact that it also played my 20+ PS1 games was pure gravy.

 

The PS3 got me into the High definition age, Bluray baby!!  (At less then the cost of a stand alone Bluray player and the PS3 was 10 times better of a bluray player then any on the market in those days)Much better then DVD and got my foot in the door to start upgrading my tv, sound system, man cave, etc.   Guess what it also played all my 50+ PS1 and PS2 games!!  My lbrary was getting quite respectable at this point.

 

These purchases made sense for so many reasons, the bargain can not be denied.

 

With PS4 they repeating the disc technology(Bluray) but its rumored we may get up to 200GB discs on PS4, we'll see about that one.

But for most cases only the PS4 games will take advantage of that extra space, until 4K Bluray comes down the pipe.

These are all unknown variables at this point, not guaranteed improvements and advancements over the last gen, as was Sony momentum up until PS4.

But we do know that our current libray of games, many of us now having well over 100 disc based games on 3 consoles will no longer be supported.  Its time to start over again for us it seems, It feels like I was president of a company and have been demoted to the mail room and told to "Just advance through the entire company again"  And I say "It took me 10 years to get where I was!!"

 

We have legitimate concerns here, the norm has been broken, people like advanacement but dont really like change.

Now if you do not and have never wanted to play games you loved for years you will never understand this argument, all you are doing is showing your ignorance on the topic and attempting to demean others opinions because they do not match your own.

 

Plus we read your first 30 responses, if anything is getting silly its someone fighting to make sure someone else does not get what they want for no good reason at all.  Just give it up, what do you hope to accomplish by coming in here and stating how a feature is only worth while if you are the one who wants it, LOL?

 

Let us say our peace and gently fade away.  The more you come in here trying to devalue our concerns the more you encite responses and keep the thread alive.

 

You are creating your own reality and prentending to not like it, to me that is silly.

 

 

 

Hawkfan267 wrote:
Seriously, there's just certain things that we must accept about the PS4. In time, it may get better, who knows.


dulun18 wrote:
**honestly if you still have your PS3.. and lot of games to go through.. there's no reason to jump onto the PS4 bandwagon just yet...
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