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Fender Bender
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Re: Nvidia crying over AMD Console deal, downplays PS4 like it's nothing...

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Sep 28, 2013

da1writer wrote:

gR3yGh051 wrote:

kythunder wrote:

gR3yGh051 wrote:

kythunder wrote:

Just have to hope they got a handle on the cooling situation or it will be worse than the PS3 as many of the AMD's tend to run much hotter than the Nvidias of the same specs.


I have the opposite experience. 

My old crossfire 7950's OC'd ran MUCH cooler compared to my standard clocked Titan's (2 in SLI). Both of them use a single GPU each, and were both water cooled.


My Titans, at idle are consistently 5*C higher. Under load, when running SolidWorks, they run the same temps within about 5% of each other.


Nvidia is the one that needs to get their crap together with their drivers..... I spent $1600 on my Titans, and a single 780 is VERY comparable to a Titan. And the scaling in games does not bode well for the future of these cards. But I'm sure that has more to do with the games themselves

I primarily use my PC for CAD work which both SolidWorks and Inventor both take advantage of CUDA, so CUDA cores is what determines what GPU I get, and Nvidia cards tend to have the highest count of CUDA cores, and the difference between the 780 and Titan is less than 10% in terms of CUDA core count. 

If the 800series cards have only slightly more CUDA cores than either the 780 or Titan, I'm selling my Titans and just going 4-way SLI with the 780's as I figure the performance benefit is about 60% better for about 40% less money.


I can't say for sure as i have never done any real world tests myself but going by just many things i have read on other sites and it seems a lot of people say they run hot,i have ran both brands myself in my PC's but have never compared 2 with the same specs.

 

 


Might be something to do with people also upgrading to the Haswell CPU's as those run quite toasty. 

I run an Ivy-Bridge i7 6-core oc'd to 4.3Ghz and the temps on that are no where near the temps of a watercooled Haswell.



We are now going off the beaten path here but here is a good article that sums up how each console generation since the PS3 and now the PS4 soon.

 

http://whatisplaystation4.com/uncertain-future-ps4/

 

Here's a qoute how thing's usually pan out...

 

"

All I’m saying is patience. Those of us who have been in gaming for decades know the dance.

  • New consoles are revealed.
  • PC elitist come out of their caves bragging about graphics and frame rates.
  • Launch titles aren’t mind-blowing.
  • People complain about no significant leap in graphical fidelity.
  • Then some developer like Naughty Dog or Sony Santa Monica reveals their next-gen game they’ve been working on for years, everyone is blown away and the floodgates of true next generation gaming is opened and the PC elitist return to hibernation.
  • For years everyone says PC gaming is dead while next gen consoles thrive for years.
  • Then when consoles again start to show their age, PC elitist come out and begin the cycle anew.

Sound familiar?"


You're exactly correct,Been happening way back since ------------man it's been a long time..haha

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Gaming Beast
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Re: Nvidia crying over AMD Console deal, downplays PS4 like it's nothing...

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Sep 28, 2013

I'm sorry if you're a naive console fanboy, but NVIDIA is correct about a couple things:

 

1. PC technology is already past the PS4 and XBO at the high-end; it's only a matter of time before it's past it in the mainstream market. But if you're buying a PS4 or XBO for the graphics, you're doing it wrong anyway. If part of AMD wasn't a part of the next-gen consoles, they'd admit to it too and that's why they haven't denied it, they've simply remained quiet.

 

2. The profit margins on console hardware ARE low. Sony and MS recoup the costs from the software and accessories as they get a cut of everything, but it's highly unlikely AMD gets a cut on any of that. They were probably paid one flat cost up front, and then royalties for every PS4/XBO sold, but nothing beyond that. NVIDIA already has a strong foothold in the mobile processor market to go along with its PC GPU market, so to them, the console market simply isn't worth it based on what Sony/MS would be willing to pay. AMD doesn't have that luxury.

 

AMD is correct in that the next-gen consoles will help PC gaming, as the current-gen consoles were severely holding it back in multi-platform development. Though most multi-platform devs used larger textures and more advanced lighting, shading, and physics in PC versions, they didn't truly invest the time to utilize everything the PC could do simply because it was well beyond the capabilities of current-gen. Several devs have admitted this and said they're really looking forward to pushing the envelope now. BUT that argument has nothing to do with what NVIDIA is arguing - nowhere did NVIDIA say the next-gen consoles were bad or a detriment, they simply stated that the PC could already do more, which it can. This next-gen wave will actually prove that the PC had been held back in many instances. And that's not even talking about how they're all x86 now, which will make multi-platform development even easier.

 

So that is why no true PC gamer is upset with the next-gen consoles; they welcome it! The standard of gaming is going to improve across the board. If you want the best graphics, physics, and moddability, that's still going to be the PC, but that's not to say the next-gen consoles are bad - console fanboys have to stop being butt.hurt by the truth and just enjoy what they're getting, which is a huge improvement over the current-gen consoles.

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Fender Bender
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Re: Nvidia crying over AMD Console deal, downplays PS4 like it's nothing...

Sep 28, 2013

xClayMeow wrote:

I'm sorry if you're a naive console fanboy, but NVIDIA is correct about a couple things:

 

1. PC technology is already past the PS4 and XBO at the high-end; it's only a matter of time before it's past it in the mainstream market. But if you're buying a PS4 or XBO for the graphics, you're doing it wrong anyway. If part of AMD wasn't a part of the next-gen consoles, they'd admit to it too and that's why they haven't denied it, they've simply remained quiet.

 

2. The profit margins on console hardware ARE low. Sony and MS recoup the costs from the software and accessories as they get a cut of everything, but it's highly unlikely AMD gets a cut on any of that. They were probably paid one flat cost up front, and then royalties for every PS4/XBO sold, but nothing beyond that. NVIDIA already has a strong foothold in the mobile processor market to go along with its PC GPU market, so to them, the console market simply isn't worth it based on what Sony/MS would be willing to pay. AMD doesn't have that luxury.

 

AMD is correct in that the next-gen consoles will help PC gaming, as the current-gen consoles were severely holding it back in multi-platform development. Though most multi-platform devs used larger textures and more advanced lighting, shading, and physics in PC versions, they didn't truly invest the time to utilize everything the PC could do simply because it was well beyond the capabilities of current-gen. Several devs have admitted this and said they're really looking forward to pushing the envelope now. BUT that argument has nothing to do with what NVIDIA is arguing - nowhere did NVIDIA say the next-gen consoles were bad or a detriment, they simply stated that the PC could already do more, which it can. This next-gen wave will actually prove that the PC had been held back in many instances. And that's not even talking about how they're all x86 now, which will make multi-platform development even easier.

 

So that is why no true PC gamer is upset with the next-gen consoles; they welcome it! The standard of gaming is going to improve across the board. If you want the best graphics, physics, and moddability, that's still going to be the PC, but that's not to say the next-gen consoles are bad - console fanboys have to stop being butt.hurt by the truth and just enjoy what they're getting, which is a huge improvement over the current-gen consoles.


You hit the nail on the head,i built a pc a year ago that would stomp the dog crap out of a PS4 but that being said i am still getting a 4 as i like console gaming the most but i play on everything and not partial to just one company or product.

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Re: Nvidia crying over AMD Console deal, downplays PS4 like it's nothing...

[ Edited ]
Sep 28, 2013

xClayMeow wrote:

I'm sorry if you're a naive console fanboy, but NVIDIA is correct about a couple things:

 

1. PC technology is already past the PS4 and XBO at the high-end; it's only a matter of time before it's past it in the mainstream market. But if you're buying a PS4 or XBO for the graphics, you're doing it wrong anyway. If part of AMD wasn't a part of the next-gen consoles, they'd admit to it too and that's why they haven't denied it, they've simply remained quiet.

 

2. The profit margins on console hardware ARE low. Sony and MS recoup the costs from the software and accessories as they get a cut of everything, but it's highly unlikely AMD gets a cut on any of that. They were probably paid one flat cost up front, and then royalties for every PS4/XBO sold, but nothing beyond that. NVIDIA already has a strong foothold in the mobile processor market to go along with its PC GPU market, so to them, the console market simply isn't worth it based on what Sony/MS would be willing to pay. AMD doesn't have that luxury.

 

AMD is correct in that the next-gen consoles will help PC gaming, as the current-gen consoles were severely holding it back in multi-platform development. Though most multi-platform devs used larger textures and more advanced lighting, shading, and physics in PC versions, they didn't truly invest the time to utilize everything the PC could do simply because it was well beyond the capabilities of current-gen. Several devs have admitted this and said they're really looking forward to pushing the envelope now. BUT that argument has nothing to do with what NVIDIA is arguing - nowhere did NVIDIA say the next-gen consoles were bad or a detriment, they simply stated that the PC could already do more, which it can. This next-gen wave will actually prove that the PC had been held back in many instances. And that's not even talking about how they're all x86 now, which will make multi-platform development even easier.

 

So that is why no true PC gamer is upset with the next-gen consoles; they welcome it! The standard of gaming is going to improve across the board. If you want the best graphics, physics, and moddability, that's still going to be the PC, but that's not to say the next-gen consoles are bad - console fanboys have to stop being butt.hurt by the truth and just enjoy what they're getting, which is a huge improvement over the current-gen consoles.


Actually, I said before a while ago that I also game on PC before (just bought Dead Island Riptide in fact which was on sale on Steam for ~$14), I simply don't like the attitude brought by Nvidia - stating the obvious that we all know (you want the best graphics, go PC) and making sure future PS4 owners (and Xbox One owners) know they are making a bad purchase. 

 

It's personal preference in how people perceive what is good graphics or not and opinions vary. One of the reasons why I'm buying the PS4 is because of the graphics, Killzone Shadow Fall impressed me, so did Watch Dogs on PS4, So did BF4 on PS4. I can't wait to see more first party developers like Naughty Dog do with the console and exclusive titles as well, there is NOTHING wrong with feeling this way. Games coming out for the PS4 look loads better than what current consoles do (which me and you agree on) and to million of preordered individuals agree that it's impressed them so far as well.

 

Being a PC Gamer (144 games on Steam, 5 from GOG for me) and a Console gamer (over 40 on PS3 for me) gives you insight on both sides of the coin - I'm glad I can enjoy both sides and appreciate the artistic and graphical pluses both sides show off at times (Ranging from the Witcher 2 on PC to The Last of Us on PS3.) I personally love the Steam Sales (and GOG and still looking at greenman too) and being able to mod and upgrade my pc whenever I want but I also like the convenience and pop in and play without worrying about anything of consoles.

 

Both platforms have great exclusives, both bring great graphics to the table to millions of people (to varying degree), but since I'm both a PC and console gamer, I guess I'm more optimistic and accepting than people who just game ONLY on PC. I'll reiterate that the obvious isn't the problem with Nvidia and PC Elitist, it's the attitude. Not saying both sides aren't doing their fair share of fist thumping chest ordeals to tick off the other, I just believe thinking the PS4 is dead out the gate is not the right approach to look at things because Nvidia and a few think so. 

 

What's the difference of me thinking "I can't wait to play Killzone Shadow Fall - game looks fantastic on PS4!" to "I can't wait to play Witcher 3 - game looks fantastic for PC!"

The answer - Nothing, both games look great on each platform. Nothing spoken by Nvidia, PC Elitist, or Console owners will change either of my impressions of the games coming for both platforms because I'm impressed with both the PC and PS4.

 

So what's wrong with thinking I'm getting the PS4 for the graphics and PC Games for the graphics (push) xClayMeow? Like kythunder above stated, I'm not partial to any platform or product and why should I be? I personally like tech in general. If graphics were highly important I wouldn't own a 3DS and a Vita... isn't it about the Games anyway?

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Gaming Beast
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Re: Nvidia crying over AMD Console deal, downplays PS4 like it's nothing...

Sep 28, 2013

da1writer wrote:

 

Both platforms have great exclusives, both bring great graphics to the table to millions of people (to varying degree), but since I'm both a PC and console gamer, I guess I'm more optimistic and accepting than people who just game ONLY on PC. I'll reiterate that the obvious isn't the problem with Nvidia and PC Elitist, it's the attitude. Not saying both sides aren't doing their fair share of fist thumping chest ordeals to tick off the other, I just believe thinking the PS4 is dead out the gate is not the right approach to look at things because Nvidia and a few think so. 

 

What's the difference of me thinking "I can't wait to play Killzone Shadow Fall - game looks fantastic on PS4!" to "I can't wait to play Witcher 3 - game looks fantastic for PC!"

The answer - Nothing, both games look great on each platform. Nothing spoken by Nvidia, PC Elitist, or Console owners will change either of my impressions of the games coming for both platforms because I'm impressed with both the PC and PS4.

 

So what's wrong with thinking I'm getting the PS4 for the graphics and PC Games for the graphics (push) xClayMeow? Like the kythunder above stated, I'm not partial to any platform or product and why should I be? I personally like tech in general. If graphics were highly important I wouldn't own a 3DS and a Vita...


I haven't seen NVIDIA or anyone else say the PS4 (or XBO) is "dead out of the gate" - saying that PC technology is further ahead is not the same thing. You also have to remember that NVIDIA is being asked these questions - are they simply supposed to say "no comment"? If they did that, people would think they actually thought the opposite.

 

No where did I say you can't enjoy the graphics of both, I simply stated that the PC's is better. As I said, the PS4/XBO are way better than the PS3/360, so there's no reason why console gamers can't just be happy with that. Comments by NVIDIA or PC gamers shouldn't bother you or anyone else here. Again, what NVIDIA has been saying is true - that doesn't mean the PS4 is bad!! It's great that you game on both and respect both platforms, but there are several people in this forum (as can be seen in this thread and the other NVIDIA thread, not to mention all the XBO threads) that have a very narrow-minded sense and get so defensive if anyone has even the slightest negative thing to say about the PS4. THOSE people (not you), need to grow up.

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Gaming Beast
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Re: Nvidia crying over AMD Console deal, downplays PS4 like it's nothing...

Sep 28, 2013

There seems to be 2 threads about the same topic going on right now, not sure why.  What I've noticed that no matter what is fact or is a lie, the console fanboys seem to get very defensive if you appear to be in the PC camp.  I find myself, and have witnessed others, trying to word replies specifically right as to not set off the console bunch.  Seriously?  Does it really need to come to that?

 

I own a Nvidia video card and will never use another ATI card again, but I think its great that ATI has the console business.  They desperately needed the business.  Anything to strengthen their bottom line and provide healthy competition is good for us, the consumers.

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Re: Nvidia crying over AMD Console deal, downplays PS4 like it's nothing...

Sep 28, 2013

docshady wrote:

There seems to be 2 threads about the same topic going on right now, not sure why.  What I've noticed that no matter what is fact or is a lie, the console fanboys seem to get very defensive if you appear to be in the PC camp.  I find myself, and have witnessed others, trying to word replies specifically right as to not set off the console bunch.  Seriously?  Does it really need to come to that?

 

I own a Nvidia video card and will never use another ATI card again, but I think its great that ATI has the console business.  They desperately needed the business.  Anything to strengthen their bottom line and provide healthy competition is good for us, the consumers.


I too think that maybe... the two threads should be merged maybe? What do you guys think, notify a mod, stat!

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First Son
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Re: Nvidia crying over AMD Console deal, downplays PS4 like it's nothing...

Sep 28, 2013
I don't know if Nvidia even had a chance this generation. Both Sony and MS would've been looking for an APU with the graphics and computing together on one chip. And they decided they wanted to standardize on x86, which rules out Intel (poor GPU) and Nvidia (uses ARM). It's possible Nividia can work something out next generation, but im not holding my breath.

And Nintendo is not even a possibility because they work with AMD and IBM on very custom silicone. Heck, even on the Wii U forums they barely understand the chip.
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