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Lombax Warrior
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Re: No backwards compatibility NO PS4

[ Edited ]
Mar 31, 2013

DanSD wrote:

superfriar19 wrote:

 

You really want to pay $600 for a PS4 so you can play PS3 games? 


There's an entire thread discussing exactly this.  Yes, many would pay $600 for a backward-compatible PS4.  If it were to be made an optional model, it would not affect the masses that wanted a cheaper PS4 without backward-compatibility, but would appease the PS loyalists.


What's many? How many people? So Sony is supposed to make an additional model just for them? That's not how business works. It's not as simple as that. They would have to manufacture two different consoles. Making a separate console just with BC would drive the cost of it up even more. 

 

I would be very interested to know how many people who want a separate BC model have worked in the manufacturing/production business. It's not as simple as people seem to think. In order for it to be worth is for Sony they would need a large number of people willing to buy it and by large I mean millions. 

 

I have been working the manufacturing/production  business for 13 years and it has really opened my eyes to how things work and all the costs that people don't think about. It's like those threads you see when a new console/handheld comes out. The parts cost X and the unit costs Y so people think the company is ripping them off. When in reality they are losing money on every unit they sell. A BC model would be expensive and I think $600 would be wishful thinking as it would probably cost more. 

 

 

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: No backwards compatibility NO PS4

Mar 31, 2013

Icestar10 wrote:

One of my biggest reasons for wanting backwards compatibility for the PS4 is that I don't want to worry if my PS3 breaks. I am already on my second PS3 and I don't want to worry if my PS3 breaks. Consoles don't last forever. I know Sony patented an external add-on so I know it's possible to enable the PS4 to backwards compatible but I know Sony wants to push Gaikai. The thing is not everyone can use Gaikai because of bad internet and I am sure you need to have a subscription service to use Gaikai. I am sure not everyone wants to pay a subscription fee just to play their old games.

 

I would rather just use my PS3 rather than have to pay a subscription service, but as I mentioned, consoles don't last forever and I already had to buy 2 PS3's. Am I just supposed to go out and buy a ANOTHER PS3 after my PS3 slim dies? It’s not very appealing. I don't need to hear that it's my fault for getting the YLOD. I give plenty of ventilation space for my PS3 and it's not on the entire day. In fact, I heard that the YLOD is related to turning on and off the PS3. And yes, space is an issue for some people. Just because space is not an issue for some of you does not mean that it's not an issue for others.

 

I already have multiple devices hooked on there. There are multiple consoles there, and a Dish network device. I have one slot on my entrainment shelf that is used for games and accessories for multiple consoles. Yes, I am not the only one who uses my TV! The point I am making is that I have no problems paying extra to have backwards compatibility. I am not asking to have it for free! I don’t mind paying $600 dollars for a fully backwards compatible PS4.

 

 

 


I understand where you are coming from. The problem is that just because you are willing to pay $600 for a BC PS4 doesn't mean everyone else is. In order for it to be worth it for Sony there would need to be millions more just like you. Sony learned the hard way this gen that not many people will pay $600 for a console.

 

By the way, anyone who blamed you for YLOD is an idiot. It's Europes fault and their stupid legislation requiring electronics to use lead free solder.

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Fender Bender
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Re: No backwards compatibility NO PS4

Mar 31, 2013

PapaWarlock wrote:

Lep7900 wrote:
So I hear the new PS4 isn't gonna support PS3 games, well that sucks for guys like me with a 200+ game collection. And why would I want to have to huge consoles hooked up to play games, I think Playstation is making a bad decision with no backwards compatibility . I might not bother with their new system, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. If we all voice concern for this issue, then we get what we want. Here's hoping...

At the risk of sounding rude, exactly how big do you think the PS 4 is actually going to be?

 

I realize I'm only repeating what others have said, and what I've said as well, but honestly I think people are over reacting big time to the whole no backwards compatibility thing. To start with BC is not a set standard in gaming. It is not owed to anyone. Thousands of gamers crying across the internet is not going to sway Sony to suddenly re-embrace BC. Emulating PS 1 games on the PS 2 was an easy task. Emulating PS 2 games on the PS 3 was far more complicated and added roughly $100 to the price of the PS 3. People whined about the price of the PS 3 when it first arrived and during the efforts to reduce that cost, PS 2 emulation was dropped. With that major price drop, PS 3 began to sell much faster than with the BC models. Adding PS 3 and PS 2 emulation to the PS 4, as far as discs go, would likely bring the cost of the PS 4 up higher than Sony is willing to sell the system for. Imagine the utter terror of the gaming population if, once again, Sony's new system cost $500 out the gate? There'd be massive rioting across the interwebs.

 

2nd off, Sony has yet to unveil exactly how their aquisition of Gakkai (Gaikai?) will impact gaming. They have mentioned that you will be able to play PS 1, PS 2 and PS 3 games via the Gakkai  (Gaikai?) system. Hello!!! BC. Duh! One would presume that a person's current PSN purchases would be applied to the Gakkai (Gaikai?) system once it is implemented. Well, at least with any digital purchases that is. Those of us who have primarily purchased hard copies might be a bit out of sorts with that, but then again, the easiest solution to the whole lack of BC is to keep your PS 3s. I still own my PS 1, my PS 2 and when the PS 4 arrives, I'm not about to let go of my PS 3. Especially given the first 2 years of any new system is rather limited in the library section.

 

No offense but if you don't want to buy a PS 4 then more power to you. I'm going to continue to buy new systems until the day my wife cremates my corpse. If I have to buy multiple systems to play all the games I want, well then I'll be more than happy to do so.

 

I'm glad I own a home and not an apartment or live with my parents.


Nope, PS2 BC only added $27 dollars on the PS3. It did not cost that much. Sony said that they removed BC to encourage PS3 games sales, which was the wrong way to do it, in my opinion. I have no problems paying extra for a fully backwards compatible PS4. I bought my first PS3, which was the fully backwards compatible PS3 for $500 dollars from Target, and I did not have much of a problem getting it. I thought it was worth it. Backwards compatibility is an important feature for me because it preserves my library because consoles break.

 

 

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Fender Bender
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Re: No backwards compatibility NO PS4

[ Edited ]
Mar 31, 2013

superfriar19 wrote:

Icestar10 wrote:

One of my biggest reasons for wanting backwards compatibility for the PS4 is that I don't want to worry if my PS3 breaks. I am already on my second PS3 and I don't want to worry if my PS3 breaks. Consoles don't last forever. I know Sony patented an external add-on so I know it's possible to enable the PS4 to backwards compatible but I know Sony wants to push Gaikai. The thing is not everyone can use Gaikai because of bad internet and I am sure you need to have a subscription service to use Gaikai. I am sure not everyone wants to pay a subscription fee just to play their old games.

 

I would rather just use my PS3 rather than have to pay a subscription service, but as I mentioned, consoles don't last forever and I already had to buy 2 PS3's. Am I just supposed to go out and buy a ANOTHER PS3 after my PS3 slim dies? It’s not very appealing. I don't need to hear that it's my fault for getting the YLOD. I give plenty of ventilation space for my PS3 and it's not on the entire day. In fact, I heard that the YLOD is related to turning on and off the PS3. And yes, space is an issue for some people. Just because space is not an issue for some of you does not mean that it's not an issue for others.

 

I already have multiple devices hooked on there. There are multiple consoles there, and a Dish network device. I have one slot on my entrainment shelf that is used for games and accessories for multiple consoles. Yes, I am not the only one who uses my TV! The point I am making is that I have no problems paying extra to have backwards compatibility. I am not asking to have it for free! I don’t mind paying $600 dollars for a fully backwards compatible PS4.

 

 

 


I understand where you are coming from. The problem is that just because you are willing to pay $600 for a BC PS4 doesn't mean everyone else is. In order for it to be worth it for Sony there would need to be millions more just like you. Sony learned the hard way this gen that not many people will pay $600 for a console.

 

By the way, anyone who blamed you for YLOD is an idiot. It's Europes fault and their stupid legislation requiring electronics to use lead free solder.


I did not know Europe was the reason for that. Now I know to blame! lol Smiley Tongue

 

I know internal backwards compatibility won't happen but I wish Sony can release an external add-on that can enable the PS4 to be backwards compatible. It would better than nothing. This just means I should consider buying a spare PS3 or something. lol

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Wastelander
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Re: No backwards compatibility NO PS4

Mar 31, 2013

superfriar19 wrote:

DanSD wrote:

superfriar19 wrote:

 

You really want to pay $600 for a PS4 so you can play PS3 games? 


There's an entire thread discussing exactly this.  Yes, many would pay $600 for a backward-compatible PS4.  If it were to be made an optional model, it would not affect the masses that wanted a cheaper PS4 without backward-compatibility, but would appease the PS loyalists.


What's many? How many people? So Sony is supposed to make an additional model just for them? That's not how business works. It's not as simple as that. They would have to manufacture two different consoles. Making a separate console just with BC would drive the cost of it up even more. 

 

I would be very interested to know how many people who want a separate BC model have worked in the manufacturing/production business. It's not as simple as people seem to think. In order for it to be worth is for Sony they would need a large number of people willing to buy it and by large I mean millions. 

 

I have been working the manufacturing/production  business for 13 years and it has really opened my eyes to how things work and all the costs that people don't think about. It's like those threads you see when a new console/handheld comes out. The parts cost X and the unit costs Y so people think the company is ripping them off. When in reality they are losing money on every unit they sell. A BC model would be expensive and I think $600 would be wishful thinking as it would probably cost more. 

 

 


You're assuming, and you know what they say about that.  No one said that it is cheap or simple to add PS3 backward-compatibility.  I stated in my post that they would have to make two models; I'm not sure why you made that statement again.  You know I can't give you numbers for people in favor of paying extra for backward-compatibility, just like you can't give me numbers for people who wouldn't pay extra.

 

If I had to guess, I would say, yes, Sony could sell millions of backward-compatible PS4 models.  Sony's primary reason, from what I can tell, for excluding the feature is they want to drive people away from PS3 content.  Understandable from a business perspective, but I do not believe cost is a major factor in the decision.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: No backwards compatibility NO PS4

Mar 31, 2013

@Icestar10

 

Yep, blame Europe.

 

Lead free solder is garbage. Better for the enviroment and workers health but horrible for electronics. It doesn't flow well which in turn results in poor solder joints which in turn results in more rework which in turn results in higher production costs. It also doesn't handle the constant heating up/cooling down that come from prolonged usage. The joints get weak over time and eventually just break and lose their connection.

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First Son
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Re: No backwards compatibility NO PS4

Mar 31, 2013

I see a lot of people responding (rather rudely) that you just keep the PS3 and just hook it up whenever you feel like playing those games or buy a bigger shelf...

 

As is, I have an 8-bit Nintendo, a Sega Genesis, a Super Nintendo, and a PS all sitting in a box off to the side. On the "shelf" is the PS3, the PS2 (because the PS3 isn't backward compatible), the Wii and the Gamecube (my wife loves her tetris and monkeyball).

 

I still play my PS2 and PS games quite a bit on the PS2 since the PS3 failed in that area. I also use the PS3 regularly. No doubt, new games on a new system will get attention, but I still want to play all those older games too without having to buy the same title again with a format that is compatible with a non-backward compatible system.

 

For some people, space IS an issue, or number of connections on the TV/Surround reciever, or outlets on the power strip, or its annoying to keep rewiring everything because the cables aren't cross-platform compatible either, or it could be the principle of the matter: "you want me to spend $XXX.XX on your latest system that can't play the games from your previous system?"

 

Sony Playstation had it right with the PS2 being able to play PS games, but somehow they thought that it was a bad idea (smoking what?) and ditched this ability with the PS3. I can understand the frustration that those loyal to Playstation since its original launch feel with having to stack consoles like Nintendo because of format/media changes. Playstation has ALWAYS used a disk. A programming fix makes your blu-ray playing PS3 able to play DVD and CD games since the console itself is already capable of reading audio CDs and playing DVD movies.

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Fender Bender
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Re: No backwards compatibility NO PS4

Mar 31, 2013

superfriar19 wrote:

@Icestar10

 

Yep, blame Europe.

 

Lead free solder is garbage. Better for the enviroment and workers health but horrible for electronics. It doesn't flow well which in turn results in poor solder joints which in turn results in more rework which in turn results in higher production costs. It also doesn't handle the constant heating up/cooling down that come from prolonged usage. The joints get weak over time and eventually just break and lose their connection.


I wish they can develop something that is just as good if not better than the garbage lead-free solder. Smiley Sad

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Big Daddy
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Re: No backwards compatibility NO PS4

[ Edited ]
Mar 31, 2013

DanSD wrote:

superfriar19 wrote:

DanSD wrote:

superfriar19 wrote:

 

You really want to pay $600 for a PS4 so you can play PS3 games? 


There's an entire thread discussing exactly this.  Yes, many would pay $600 for a backward-compatible PS4.  If it were to be made an optional model, it would not affect the masses that wanted a cheaper PS4 without backward-compatibility, but would appease the PS loyalists.


What's many? How many people? So Sony is supposed to make an additional model just for them? That's not how business works. It's not as simple as that. They would have to manufacture two different consoles. Making a separate console just with BC would drive the cost of it up even more. 

 

I would be very interested to know how many people who want a separate BC model have worked in the manufacturing/production business. It's not as simple as people seem to think. In order for it to be worth is for Sony they would need a large number of people willing to buy it and by large I mean millions. 

 

I have been working the manufacturing/production  business for 13 years and it has really opened my eyes to how things work and all the costs that people don't think about. It's like those threads you see when a new console/handheld comes out. The parts cost X and the unit costs Y so people think the company is ripping them off. When in reality they are losing money on every unit they sell. A BC model would be expensive and I think $600 would be wishful thinking as it would probably cost more. 

 

 


You're assuming, and you know what they say about that.  No one said that it is cheap or simple to add PS3 backward-compatibility.  I stated in my post that they would have to make two models; I'm not sure why you made that statement again.  You know I can't give you numbers for people in favor of paying extra for backward-compatibility, just like you can't give me numbers for people who wouldn't pay extra.

 

If I had to guess, I would say, yes, Sony could sell millions of backward-compatible PS4 models.  Sony's primary reason, from what I can tell, for excluding the feature is they want to drive people away from PS3 content.  Understandable from a business perspective, but I do not believe cost is a major factor in the decision.


I'd really love for you to get some hard evidence that there are MILLIONS of people who'd want this.

 

Don't pull stuff outta your butt, only Illusionists and Magicians can do that.

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First Son
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Re: No backwards compatibility NO PS4

Mar 31, 2013

"MillionS" may be far-fetched, but even if only 100,000 people demand BC or they won't buy the new system, at the conservative $600/unit, thats $60,000,000 that the PS4 will not make.

 

The anti-BCs won't turn down a PS4 just because it has a feature that allows them to play older games. Doing so is just hard-headed and really kinda dumb.

 

So from a business standpoint, would it cost more than what would be made? The $60,000,000 above is based on only 100,000 potential customers demanding BC. There aren't that few of them. Adding BC to the PS4 will pay for itself rather quickly.

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