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Re: New Sony Patent Blocks Second Hand Games

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Jan 5, 2013

Xuchilbara wrote:

Jag_Stilvecchio wrote:

I understand that companies patent stuff all the time and a patent doesn't equate to implementation. It's an idea and Sony filed to legal protection on this idea.

 

That said, if Sony or any other game console manufacturer does implement technology that blocks me from being able to play used games or a friends game then I will in all liklihood not purchase that console. 

 

Console manufacturers can steer their product anyway they like and obviously in the direction that is most benificial to their bottomline. As a consumer I can opt not to support the direction of a console manufacturer by not purchasing their product. It's really as simple as that. 


Exactly, it is a simple as that.

 

For me it will be a dusking era to see such/similar technology be fully implemented. I'm from the NES era but I was first introduced to gaming via a  Atari 2600. Going over a friend's house to play video games, bringing over a game or vice versa,  has been part of my gaming experience throughout the years. Pacman, Metal Gear, Contra, Double Dragon, Karate... [The memories] After that it's the fact that you don't truly own the digital content you buy, so seeing this model making its way to tangible copies just brings more darkness to the already dusking era.

 

Throughout the years I've come to like & respect SONY for what they've brought forward to the gaming industry, hardware & software wise. Sure they have screwed us before, but they have make up for their mistakes or at least try to. To me, they are the best choice in the console-base gaming model.

 

At the end SONY is a board of directors & a pack of lawyers; it is theirs and they can do as they see fit.

 


 

Is that any different than ANY other company? I don't know how it got started, but there seems to be this feeling that video games makers are supposed to be driven by this alturistic motivation to bring games to the masses, and they're supposed to be living in poverty and exist soley for the benefit of the "community". It's a crock. It is and always has been a business. The only difference between early days and now is the dollar amount is a whole hell of a lot bigger.

 

There's the old saying; Nothing personal, but this is business. EVERYTHING comes down to business. The NBA, NFL, music, movies, electronics, cars, food, etc. The Knicks got rid of Patrick Ewing late in his career, and I didn't say that "the Knicks have betrayed their fans, I'm not going to be a fan anymore". 

 

The gamer community is almost like the punk rockers of the 1970's, where they looked at success with scorn and branded anyone who made money as "a sellout". Elvis Costello said in an interview for the series The History of Rock N' Roll that people always admired him because he didn't do things for the money. He said quite frankly "I was 30 years old. I was working as a computer programmer in London. I had a wife. I had a kid. I had a house. I had a mortgage. If I was going to be a musican, it was going to have to pay like a regular job. So yeah I did things for the money. Who wouldn't?". I think there needs to be the same epiphany in the gamer community before the industry can really mature.

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Re: New Sony Patent Blocks Second Hand Games

Jan 5, 2013

Xuchilbara wrote:

Jag_Stilvecchio wrote:

I understand that companies patent stuff all the time and a patent doesn't equate to implementation. It's an idea and Sony filed to legal protection on this idea.

 

That said, if Sony or any other game console manufacturer does implement technology that blocks me from being able to play used games or a friends game then I will in all liklihood not purchase that console. 

 

Console manufacturers can steer their product anyway they like and obviously in the direction that is most benificial to their bottomline. As a consumer I can opt not to support the direction of a console manufacturer by not purchasing their product. It's really as simple as that. 


Exactly, it is a simple as that.

 

For me it will be a dusking era to see such/similar technology be fully implemented. I'm from the NES era but I was first introduced to gaming via a  Atari 2600. Going over a friend's house to play video games, bringing over a game or vice versa,  has been part of my gaming experience throughout the years. Pacman, Metal Gear, Contra, Double Dragon, Karate... [The memories] After that it's the fact that you don't truly own the digital content you buy, so seeing this model making its way to tangible copies just brings more darkness to the already dusking era.

 

Throughout the years I've come to like & respect SONY for what they've brought forward to the gaming industry, hardware & software wise. Sure they have screwed us before, but they have make up for their mistakes or at least try to. To me, they are the best choice in the console-base gaming model.

 

At the end SONY is a board of directors & a pack of lawyers; it is theirs and they can do as they see fit.

 


Your right the concern I have though is that this if implemented on a large scale would lead to a industry wide gaming crash. It's like watching some slowly strangle themselves to death and there is really nothing you can do about it. I just like you respect sony for what they have done for video gaming in general I just hope that the guys directing the development of the PS4 aren't making these dicesions in the same vacuaum that bought us the 599.99 price point.

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Re: New Sony Patent Blocks Second Hand Games

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Jan 5, 2013

muslimsk8r wrote:

CaptainAlbator wrote:

FROST_420 wrote:

CaptainAlbator wrote:

You do realize that as of right now if you open your console you void your warranty? Technically you're not supposed to be mucking around with your console's inner workings. However it seems that many confuse the PS3 with your garden variety PC where you can just swap parts willy nilly.

 

And it's not just Sony that's doing this. The rumor mill has been churning away that Microsoft have been planning to do it as well. So for those who are vowing to leave Sony and the Playstation family of consoles if this comes to pass (and it's unlikely it will), you might as well take up a new hobby, because Microsoft aren't the "swell guys" you want to believe they are. Maybe you can try fishing?

 

 


     That's exactly what I'm considering. I can wait 2 or 3 years for the bugs to be worked out anyway, so skipping the next gen completely may be exactly what I end up doing. The importance of these consoles is getting blown way out of proportion and not by the consumer. Can you imagine going to buy a used car and having an extra 20% added to the price for the manufacturer just because they see money and want it? What people are missing here is that I'm not buying a used car for 20k and the manufacturer is not getting any simply because they are not involved in this transaction. It is obvious that the first buyer has only paid a portion and I'm paying the rest so the manufacturer is getting my money still. We are not all rich and therefore cannot all afford the same things this is called "classes" and is part of what makes up this great society we live in. How do they think this will translate into more money? If anything it will mean less money being spent on this pastime and I speak for myself and my kids who I still buy things for.


Ugh, here we go again. Everytime "gamers" bring up cars and an analogy they only prove ONE and only ONE thing; They don't know SQUAT about cars! The reason they don't have a surcharge on cars is because a manufacturer still makes money on a car LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG after it leaves the factory and the showroom. It's called PARTS AND SERVICE. Or do you actually believe that a car never needs brakes, shocks, struts, O2 sensors, oil changes, calipers, brake master cylinders, air filters, or any number of the THOUSANDS of parts that can break down on a car over time?

 

Also many manufacturers offer what's called "Factory Re-Certified Cars", where a car is taken in as a trade, inspected, and then certified for resale. Dealers have to pay into this system, so yes a manufacturer does make money (and A LOT of it at that) on a used car. Don't believe me?

 

 

BMW of North American Certified Pre-Owned Program

 

Attention Gamers; stop using the "car analogy". You're not helping your case when you do.

 


I would venture to say that most used cars on the roads don't have a parts and services guarentee; rather the parts used to fix them come from local auto yards. IN this case the manufacter doesn't see a cent when if comes to fixing or repairing cars.


You continue to demonstrate you don't know anything about cars, and FURTHER render the car analogy invalid. Many states dictate that if you buy a car over a certain value (in my state that value is $7,000) it's THE LAW that the seller gives you a warranty. You bring your car to a garage or the dealer, they aren't going to install used parts, and there are parts such as control arms that ONLY come from the manufacturer. Especially when it comes to an emssions system and safety related parts like shocks and struts. Insurance companies that often pay for repairs are going to DEMAND new parts be used. Many cars such as Volvo, Jaguar, Mercedes Benz, and BMW require special software and special tools. I wonder who makes those? You can't even get a REPAIR MANUAL for those cars without paying several hundred dollars to the manufacturer.

 

This isn't 1972 where you can just drop a new radiator into a Mustang and be done with it., or install a set of points in a distributor and be done in a half hour. Save it, you have proven what I've already said; "gamers" don't know SQUAT about cars.

 

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Re: New Sony Patent Blocks Second Hand Games

[ Edited ]
Jan 5, 2013

CaptainAlbator wrote:

muslimsk8r wrote:

CaptainAlbator wrote:

FROST_420 wrote:

CaptainAlbator wrote:

You do realize that as of right now if you open your console you void your warranty? Technically you're not supposed to be mucking around with your console's inner workings. However it seems that many confuse the PS3 with your garden variety PC where you can just swap parts willy nilly.

 

And it's not just Sony that's doing this. The rumor mill has been churning away that Microsoft have been planning to do it as well. So for those who are vowing to leave Sony and the Playstation family of consoles if this comes to pass (and it's unlikely it will), you might as well take up a new hobby, because Microsoft aren't the "swell guys" you want to believe they are. Maybe you can try fishing?

 

 


     That's exactly what I'm considering. I can wait 2 or 3 years for the bugs to be worked out anyway, so skipping the next gen completely may be exactly what I end up doing. The importance of these consoles is getting blown way out of proportion and not by the consumer. Can you imagine going to buy a used car and having an extra 20% added to the price for the manufacturer just because they see money and want it? What people are missing here is that I'm not buying a used car for 20k and the manufacturer is not getting any simply because they are not involved in this transaction. It is obvious that the first buyer has only paid a portion and I'm paying the rest so the manufacturer is getting my money still. We are not all rich and therefore cannot all afford the same things this is called "classes" and is part of what makes up this great society we live in. How do they think this will translate into more money? If anything it will mean less money being spent on this pastime and I speak for myself and my kids who I still buy things for.


Ugh, here we go again. Everytime "gamers" bring up cars and an analogy they only prove ONE and only ONE thing; They don't know SQUAT about cars! The reason they don't have a surcharge on cars is because a manufacturer still makes money on a car LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG after it leaves the factory and the showroom. It's called PARTS AND SERVICE. Or do you actually believe that a car never needs brakes, shocks, struts, O2 sensors, oil changes, calipers, brake master cylinders, air filters, or any number of the THOUSANDS of parts that can break down on a car over time?

 

Also many manufacturers offer what's called "Factory Re-Certified Cars", where a car is taken in as a trade, inspected, and then certified for resale. Dealers have to pay into this system, so yes a manufacturer does make money (and A LOT of it at that) on a used car. Don't believe me?

 

 

BMW of North American Certified Pre-Owned Program

 

Attention Gamers; stop using the "car analogy". You're not helping your case when you do.

 


I would venture to say that most used cars on the roads don't have a parts and services guarentee; rather the parts used to fix them come from local auto yards. IN this case the manufacter doesn't see a cent when if comes to fixing or repairing cars.


You continue to demonstrate you don't know anything about cars, and FURTHER render the car analogy invalid. Many states dictate that if you buy a car over a certain value (in my state that value is $7,000) it's THE LAW that the seller gives you a warranty. You bring your car to a garage or the dealer, they aren't going to install used parts, and there are parts such as control arms that ONLY come from the manufacturer. Especially when it comes to an emssions system and safety related parts like shocks and struts. Insurance companies that pay often pay for repairs are going to DEMAND new parts be used. Many cars such as Volvo, Jaguar, Merceds, and BMW require special software and special tools. I wonder who makes those? You can't even get a REPAIR MANUAL for those cars without paying several hundred dollars to the manufacturer.

 

This isn't 1972 where you can just drop a new radiator into a Mustang and be done with it., or install a set of points in a distributor and be done in a half hour. Save it, you have proven what I've already said; "gamers" don't know SQUAT about cars.

 


The majority of used cars on the road are nowhere near 7,000 in price as the majority of people in this country could not afford that. Heck we got two cars at our house and combined only came up to 5200 bucks in price. The examples you came up with are cars such as Volvo, Jaguars, and other high priced cars that the majority of people won't be driving. How about the mass produced cars the honda's from the 90's, chevys, etc. The Junkyard are chock full of cars such as that and the savvy home mechanic would save a fortune I know because my dad does it all the time.

 

Also I don't compare these sales to cars; I compare them to dvds and music both of which I can lend out to friends something this patent would make impossible.

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Re: New Sony Patent Blocks Second Hand Games

Jan 5, 2013

I hate to say this, I really, really do but...

 

...

 

...

 

Sony... what were you thinking?

 


I didn't started playing PlayStation 1 when I was only 8 just to be caught under surveillance while playing PlayStation games by some sort of a "device" that Sony added, like, I've never even heard of the "patented technology that will prevent the use of second hand games on consoles" for the past 14 years, because let's be frank, playing video games are my passion, and that was taken from me for absolutely little reason...

 

And "Every time the disc is used in future, the tag will check if the two ID’s match up and, if not, then the disc won’t work.". Seriously? SERIOUSLY? I'm sorry, but I'm not a millionaire who would buy nothing but new games over used games, and how would the disk NOT WORK? It's not like I'm that clumsy to scratch the disk completely, let alone tamper it, or even disassemble my PlayStation 3 console to modify it. As for deterring second-hand games... if Sony is referring to used games then, as I mentioned before, am not a millionaire who would buy only new games rather than used. I don't even posess THAT sort of money to buy at least five, or even ten, games. It's just not right. AT ALL.

 

Now, forgive me that I have said this, I just felt as if video gaming is no longer a hobby of mine, but rather something else. Just my opinion.

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Re: New Sony Patent Blocks Second Hand Games

Jan 5, 2013

muslimsk8r wrote:

mcbuttz78 wrote:

muslimsk8r wrote:

mcbuttz78 wrote:

DragonIrons wrote:

lol werent' they 800 bucks a pop at launch? And yes they were flying off shelves, of course people were getting more then one to sell them for over 1000 a pop on Ebay to some bigger idiot who didn't wait to see if it had problems.


 well i paid  800 for mines, mind  you.   it was hard to get in nyc man night  one man..  . I dont   think you calling people idiots becuase  they did,  serve a purpose in the debate.  alot   of things you  pay  for  everyday  are priced  over  the limit of worth ,that  doesnt make you a idiot or does by own standard.? of course these are your rules nd your opinion  but igues you dont  own up to that ..  lol

 

. If its hard to get you  will pay  what  they  dam  heck they are charging if there is  its  a shortage.. i dont regret it , it was money well spent.. nothing will beat the feeling of getting a ps3 on launch day when other where  fighting  for it and  came home  empty handed. There where folks   who flew from california   and canada to nyc to get a ps3 launch  and  went back home with nothing..   cried. fougth  and spit  some even went to  jail that night all for  a ps3.  To know you got  ultmiate prize night one is  hell of a feeling.

 

 You  would nver understand  that.   


Those would be the hardcore gamers and resellers that I spoke of. And as I said  before lanuch day sales are never indictive of long term success for a console as the rate of sales must be steady. WE saw with the PS3 for the first few weeks flying off the shelves becuase of these two groups. However; when these two groups had got thier consoles then PS3's started to sit on store selves hindered by the high price of admission; lack of games to justify said price;  and the fact that a alternative console sat at over 200 bucks cheaper. And as we all know because of this fact the PS3 in just 3 short years canabilized the profits made by sonys most successful console the PS2.


  my console was factory new.  For the rest of  what  you  stated thats  your opinion and it granted for you. I cannot commentt on that much. But   my console was new not a resell.. Factory  new.  got it. good  Smiley Happy  thank you .


What are you talking about? Maybe you should of been paying attention in English class to brush up on your reading comprehension skills rather than waiting to buy a PS3. I never said all consoles from the PS3 launch were resells and stated that the hardcore gamer bought these consoles to not resale them as well. Which is why I described both markets. PS3's didn't move after the intial expected open day sales rush and is why the PS3 struggled during the first half of this gen; until the prices came down and better games were made.



 HUH?   you made a sly  smart mouth statement to    me on the sly  and i kindly  corrected you  and your asking me to  improve  my reading  comprehension.?

 

 I didnt say anything about a resell > nothing what so ever..  let me find out you been in liqiour  cabniets sir.. shame on  youSmiley Mad

 

 

Mcbuttz78

vp-psn legioniaree group.

Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past, Wisdom is of the future

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Re: New Sony Patent Blocks Second Hand Games

[ Edited ]
Jan 5, 2013

MetaKraken wrote:

I hate to say this, I really, really do but...

 

...

 

...

 

Sony... what were you thinking?

 


I didn't started playing PlayStation 1 when I was only 8 just to be caught under surveillance while playing PlayStation games by some sort of a "device" that Sony added, like, I've never even heard of the "patented technology that will prevent the use of second hand games on consoles" for the past 14 years, because let's be frank, playing video games are my passion, and that was taken from me for absolutely little reason...

 

And "Every time the disc is used in future, the tag will check if the two ID’s match up and, if not, then the disc won’t work.". Seriously? SERIOUSLY? I'm sorry, but I'm not a millionaire who would buy nothing but new games over used games, and how would the disk NOT WORK? It's not like I'm that clumsy to scratch the disk completely, let alone tamper it, or even disassemble my PlayStation 3 console to modify it. As for deterring second-hand games... if Sony is referring to used games then, as I mentioned before, am not a millionaire who would buy only new games rather than used. I don't even posess THAT sort of money to buy at least five, or even ten, games. It's just not right. AT ALL.

 

Now, forgive me that I have said this, I just felt as if video gaming is no longer a hobby of mine, but rather something else. Just my opinion.

(Yeah, it's a BUSINESS. It always has been a business. They're not trying to be swell guys, and they don't want to be your friends, they want your money)


Anyone else think that this might have a military or governmental use? As in the encryption of files so they can't be accessed by unauthorized systems? And what is with this whole thing about having to be wealthy? If you're pulling down decent money, and you don't spend it foolishly, you can support your gaming habit quite effectively. Like I've said before, if you're overpaying for games, it's because you're not shopping around, and you're not actually saving money with used games. You're more in love with the IDEA that you're saving money, and the quick turn around.

 

There's plenty of things that are patented and never make it to the consumer. And for those who say "I'll give up video games", no you won't. You may say that, but seriously you're not kidding anyone when you say that, you won't. Maybe a few here and there, but I doubt any serious number to make a difference. Just like everyone said they'd "take a stand against online passes", and the practice continues, and games like Battlefiled 3 and Assassin's Creed 3 sell in the MILLIONS (Battlefield 3 is at roughly 18 MILLION and Assassin's Creed 3 is around 4 MILLION, so much for gamers and their "stand" ).

 

Fans said they were going to take a stand against Major League Baseball when the players went on strike in 1994, and the fans came back. They said they'd take a stand against the NHL, and they came back. I don't want to sound like a jerk, but let's all just face the hard truth, you're not going anywhere.

 

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Re: New Sony Patent Blocks Second Hand Games

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Jan 5, 2013

Alot of you have this wrong, it's much worst then you think... 

 

Your not looking at the big picture here... 

 

Sony doesn't just want to stop Renting, & Used Games, they want to end CD's entirely... 

 

Think about it, what happens if you put a brand New Game on your PS3, & then the PS3 Breaks... 

Now you get a New PS3, but wait, you already put your game on the old PS3... 

 

Thus your New Game is already used, & will not work with the New PS3... 

 

Weather Game Stop will agree to this, or not... It won't matter, Sony is going to put them outta Buisness... 

 

Who knows, Sony might just take over, !@_@! 

 

That 21st Of December wasn't far off, it really is the end... ~_~ 

 

 

 

 

----------------

 

What next? After they Didgetalize their Games, whats from stopping them from Jacking up the Prices... 

Since they'll have all the power at their very hands... 

 

It's not like you can just switch Companies, since other Companies would probably follow shortly behind... 

 

I mean it could possibly be the end of Gamming as we know it... !@_@! 

 

Your all probably thinking i'm nutz, what am I on... Just you wait, i'll be somewhere saying I told ya so, lOl... 

 

---------------------- 

 

When Max Payne 3 Came out, & I had to call up Rock Star about my issues... 

 

They told me that Sony was running the show, & that the Online & Rock Star Passes were just the beginning... 

 

Well now I know what they mean, lOl... The Beginning Of The End, !@_@!

Hey, Yo, Waaaaazzzzuuupp!!! .................................................................................................................

Playstation 4
.......................
Too much Networking, & Socializing, but yet not enough Gaming... ~_~
Not My Style!!!


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I Only Post Everything
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Re: New Sony Patent Blocks Second Hand Games

Jan 5, 2013
Can we not have the **bleep** car analogy here? They are two different type of bussines, move to something new please.
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PIayStation MVP
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Re: New Sony Patent Blocks Second Hand Games

Jan 5, 2013
Totally suppressing the used game market in this country isn't probably a good idea, since the much of the trade in value for those games are typically used to buy new games. So by killing the used game market could easily negatively impact the sale of new titles at stores like GameStop.

This is a real "catch 22" scenario...
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