My Open Letter to Sony

Katasku · ‎01-30-2013

So when did Sony start stealing personal property? I’m currently in the process of sending in my backwards compatible Playstation 3 for repair and I was just told that there is no guarantee that I will get -MY- hard drive that -I- paid for returned to me when my new system is sent back. Instead I might get a standard 80 GB returned to me. All because I didn’t decide to hold onto the original 80 GB HDD. As it was never instructed to me in any resource that it would be important to do so. I donated it to a friend who has having laptop troubles 4 years ago. Yet one of your support representatives told me that the system -NEEDS- to have a hard drive in it to be repaired. Really Sony? Can’t get a little creative and relaxed when helping your customers or repairing your products? I’ve already done the checks to make sure that it wasn’t a HDD failure, why do you need the HDD installed into the system to fix anything else? The thing doesn’t even power on and your support representative knew this from the start.

I installed a custom 250 GB HDD because 80 GB is not sustainable for your current market model for the Playstation platform going to digital content distribution. Due to this, I might not get -MY- hard drive back. Now if you guys were willing to work on the system without a hard drive in it, or maybe if you were somehow forced to downgrade me to an 80 GB and just credit me money for another I wouldn’t be so insulted. However, it turns out Sony doesn’t offer either choice as an option. Doesn’t matter how many agreements you get me to agree to, that is the definition of –STEALING-. You are taking property that you did not have any part in purchasing, ownership, or maintenance of. You only had permission to put your content on it and I agreed to not try to tweak any of the content outside of designed use.

Speaking of content, you only allow two downloads of purchased content. What if I have a 3rd system because it’s my preferred entertainment hub? What if I end up on my 3rd repaired Playstation? You're telling me that the $100+ I've -FURTHER- invested into your platform is only good until I hit another pay wall? Where I have to invest more money on content that I’ve already purchased in the past? That’s like buying a DVD/Blu-ray movie that self-destructs after I’ve played it on two different DVD/Blu-ray players. Doesn’t make sense in that analogy, doesn’t make sense on the Playstation 3. On top of the ‘Playstation+’ subscription I happily invested in to help support you guys. Why not copy the steam system and just lock the content to a fixed number of active systems using that account? I’m not talking just that sole account but the whole system. That way when I invite friends over to hang out and game, they can also enjoy the free advertisement of your content in a friendly, comfortable manner. I remember you guys used to have a 5 system limit for any active account holders for protected video content. What happened to just sticking to that instead of having separate limitations for different content?

You think you're following industry standard? Who else follows limitations on only "device activations"? Apple does it, Steam does it, Microsoft does it, Rhapsody does it. You're not following a standard. You’re only harming the consumer and limiting the entertainment/market capability of your platform. Want to be the entertainment leader? Go bold and be different. Open up with reasonable security practices rather than enforcing a totalitarian walled prison where it’s your way or the highway.

You guys also don't have an offline backup utility to do emergency recoveries when instances of your "Yellow Light of Death" occur without notice. Sure I could backup using the built-in utility more frequently but it takes me 6+ hours to make a backup of my content. I have to have an active, functioning system to have backup capability. Even then it's no guarantee it'll back up everything that is important because you allow the content creators the option of using encryption/locking mechanisms of save games and DLC that circumvent the built-in backup utility.

You already wipe the destination hard drive when moving backed up content to another drive. Where is the risk of backing up all saved games and purchased content? An average backup for me is 6+ hours that my system is running without normal, capable use and even then I don’t get everything backed up. I’ve been a fan of the Playstation since the original grey box PSOne. Only now do I question my decision to stick with Sony. You remove other OS support, then backwards compatibility entirely, even rumors that the future "PS4" not being able to play "PS3" games. As well as patents for proprietary encrypted games and disc based DRM? You're pushing your customers against a wall here. As for me, I can only take so much before I decide you’re not worth my time and money. Everybody has these limits. No wonder people say "skip the consoles just go PC." This probably won't get anywhere but the trash bin or bait for Internet Trolls but whatever. I tried my best. Let’s see how much Sony listens.

FiveFourteen · ‎09-05-2012

I really dont wanna read this.. lol but i will

Hello Forum, I'm FiveFourteen from the Welcoming Committee. Feel free to contact me by any means necessary if you have any questions. I would be glad to help!

"" FiveFourteen, A.S.I.C's True Leader ""

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mcbuttz78 · ‎07-02-2009

Katasku wrote:
So when did Sony start stealing personal property? I’m currently in the process of sending in my backwards compatible Playstation 3 for repair and I was just told that there is no guarantee that I will get -MY- hard drive that -I- paid for returned to me when my new system is sent back. Instead I might get a standard 80 GB returned to me. All because I didn’t decide to hold onto the original 80 GB HDD. As it was never instructed to me in any resource that it would be important to do so. I donated it to a friend who has having laptop troubles 4 years ago. Yet one of your support representatives told me that the system -NEEDS- to have a hard drive in it to be repaired. Really Sony? Can’t get a little creative and relaxed when helping your customers or repairing your products? I’ve already done the checks to make sure that it wasn’t a HDD failure, why do you need the HDD installed into the system to fix anything else? The thing doesn’t even power on and your support representative knew this from the start.

I installed a custom 250 GB HDD because 80 GB is not sustainable for your current market model for the Playstation platform going to digital content distribution. Due to this, I might not get -MY- hard drive back. Now if you guys were willing to work on the system without a hard drive in it, or maybe if you were somehow forced to downgrade me to an 80 GB and just credit me money for another I wouldn’t be so insulted. However, it turns out Sony doesn’t offer either choice as an option. Doesn’t matter how many agreements you get me to agree to, that is the definition of –STEALING-. You are taking property that you did not have any part in purchasing, ownership, or maintenance of. You only had permission to put your content on it and I agreed to not try to tweak any of the content outside of designed use.

Speaking of content, you only allow two downloads of purchased content. What if I have a 3rd system because it’s my preferred entertainment hub? What if I end up on my 3rd repaired Playstation? You're telling me that the $100+ I've -FURTHER- invested into your platform is only good until I hit another pay wall? Where I have to invest more money on content that I’ve already purchased in the past? That’s like buying a DVD/Blu-ray movie that self-destructs after I’ve played it on two different DVD/Blu-ray players. Doesn’t make sense in that analogy, doesn’t make sense on the Playstation 3. On top of the ‘Playstation+’ subscription I happily invested in to help support you guys. Why not copy the steam system and just lock the content to a fixed number of active systems using that account? I’m not talking just that sole account but the whole system. That way when I invite friends over to hang out and game, they can also enjoy the free advertisement of your content in a friendly, comfortable manner. I remember you guys used to have a 5 system limit for any active account holders for protected video content. What happened to just sticking to that instead of having separate limitations for different content?

You think you're following industry standard? Who else follows limitations on only "device activations"? Apple does it, Steam does it, Microsoft does it, Rhapsody does it. You're not following a standard. You’re only harming the consumer and limiting the entertainment/market capability of your platform. Want to be the entertainment leader? Go bold and be different. Open up with reasonable security practices rather than enforcing a totalitarian walled prison where it’s your way or the highway.

You guys also don't have an offline backup utility to do emergency recoveries when instances of your "Yellow Light of Death" occur without notice. Sure I could backup using the built-in utility more frequently but it takes me 6+ hours to make a backup of my content. I have to have an active, functioning system to have backup capability. Even then it's no guarantee it'll back up everything that is important because you allow the content creators the option of using encryption/locking mechanisms of save games and DLC that circumvent the built-in backup utility.

You already wipe the destination hard drive when moving backed up content to another drive. Where is the risk of backing up all saved games and purchased content? An average backup for me is 6+ hours that my system is running without normal, capable use and even then I don’t get everything backed up. I’ve been a fan of the Playstation since the original grey box PSOne. Only now do I question my decision to stick with Sony. You remove other OS support, then backwards compatibility entirely, even rumors that the future "PS4" not being able to play "PS3" games. As well as patents for proprietary encrypted games and disc based DRM? You're pushing your customers against a wall here. As for me, I can only take so much before I decide you’re not worth my time and money. Everybody has these limits. No wonder people say "skip the consoles just go PC." This probably won't get anywhere but the trash bin or bait for Internet Trolls but whatever. I tried my best. Let’s see how much Sony listens.

Once you down load anything on your hdd sony realated or the 1st system update. That theres property, so what they do is claim it a and destroy it( sad but true).. even if you bought a tb hdd. they will destroy it. they will never replace any customized features you have made. They are not required by law to do so. (Not being rude.)

As far customizing it up to 250gb hdd thats not how you bought it ( agn not being rude), you bought it as a 80gb so they have give it to you how you bought it ( how it was sold), not how you upgraded it. Now if you bought it as a 250gb, and they gave a80 gb you might have a good claim , and you could write them personally 1st to settles matters privatly, and they would have to give a 250gb becuase thats how you bought it or work out some kind of deal with you to compensate buts thats all on your call and there heart felt circumstance to the matter, i suppose..

I also i hate to sound rude but invest in a warranty when ever buy a elecronic device., I would suggest getting new 500gb and getting warrenty , merge your old account to the new 500gb slim with a warrenty. If something happens the ball is in your court not sony's they have to play buy your rules. You wouldnt have to settle for less or lose anything either. "As is "law is a good thing and bad thing.. So always read the packlets before you buy a electronic device in the stores

I dont buy any devices on a whim,. i ask for the manaul first, I playing coy on seeing how it works, But im really reading laws they have written on the product in the packlets and if its some jive , i dont buy it. If you see 4 lines of "as is:.. get a warrenty with the products if you dont want get one or can afford one . Dont buy the product. Very simple

I hope things get better for you ,, Also happy gaming your future

Mcbuttz78
vp-psn legioniaree group

gR3yGh051 · ‎12-24-2007

Katasku wrote:
So when did Sony start stealing personal property? I’m currently in the process of sending in my backwards compatible Playstation 3 for repair and I was just told that there is no guarantee that I will get -MY- hard drive that -I- paid for returned to me when my new system is sent back. Instead I might get a standard 80 GB returned to me. All because I didn’t decide to hold onto the original 80 GB HDD. As it was never instructed to me in any resource that it would be important to do so. I donated it to a friend who has having laptop troubles 4 years ago. Yet one of your support representatives told me that the system -NEEDS- to have a hard drive in it to be repaired. Really Sony? Can’t get a little creative and relaxed when helping your customers or repairing your products? I’ve already done the checks to make sure that it wasn’t a HDD failure, why do you need the HDD installed into the system to fix anything else? The thing doesn’t even power on and your support representative knew this from the start.

I installed a custom 250 GB HDD because 80 GB is not sustainable for your current market model for the Playstation platform going to digital content distribution. Due to this, I might not get -MY- hard drive back. Now if you guys were willing to work on the system without a hard drive in it, or maybe if you were somehow forced to downgrade me to an 80 GB and just credit me money for another I wouldn’t be so insulted. However, it turns out Sony doesn’t offer either choice as an option. Doesn’t matter how many agreements you get me to agree to, that is the definition of –STEALING-. You are taking property that you did not have any part in purchasing, ownership, or maintenance of. You only had permission to put your content on it and I agreed to not try to tweak any of the content outside of designed use.
Actually, its not stealing... Its called reading agreements. Sony has no logistical way to record every PS3 that comes in with a non-OEM hdd to have to return to the user that required a repair/refurbishment.
Its also common knowledge to KEEP the factory hdd, and use it as an external hdd, JUST IN CASE you need to send your PS3 back as there is NEVER a guarantee that you will get your property back. If you bothered to read all the fine print, you would have known that.

Speaking of content, you only allow two downloads of purchased content. What if I have a 3rd system because it’s my preferred entertainment hub? What if I end up on my 3rd repaired Playstation? You're telling me that the $100+ I've -FURTHER- invested into your platform is only good until I hit another pay wall? Where I have to invest more money on content that I’ve already purchased in the past? That’s like buying a DVD/Blu-ray movie that self-destructs after I’ve played it on two different DVD/Blu-ray players. Doesn’t make sense in that analogy, doesn’t make sense on the Playstation 3. On top of the ‘Playstation+’ subscription I happily invested in to help support you guys. Why not copy the steam system and just lock the content to a fixed number of active systems using that account? I’m not talking just that sole account but the whole system. That way when I invite friends over to hang out and game, they can also enjoy the free advertisement of your content in a friendly, comfortable manner. I remember you guys used to have a 5 system limit for any active account holders for protected video content. What happened to just sticking to that instead of having separate limitations for different content?
Sony did this to protect peoples private information, credit/debit info, any money in their Store wallet, from GAME SHARING. Which was a very prevalent thing until unscrupulous people started to abuse the ability to have 5 systems activated on a PSN ID. Don't blame Sony for this one, its other people who ruined it for everyone else. If you have a 3rd PS3, I can't say I'd feel bad for you... you have THREE PS3's. You can do without having ONE PS3 having access to your data.

You think you're following industry standard? Who else follows limitations on only "device activations"? Apple does it, Steam does it, Microsoft does it, Rhapsody does it. You're not following a standard. You’re only harming the consumer and limiting the entertainment/market capability of your platform. Want to be the entertainment leader? Go bold and be different. Open up with reasonable security practices rather than enforcing a totalitarian walled prison where it’s your way or the highway.
Thats the thing.... where in the history of everything that Sony has publicly said, that what they do is industry standard? They do it in the sense to protect everyone elses private information and to prevent "Social Engineers" from stealing said information. 2nd time I've had to explain this to you in your "open letter".

You guys also don't have an offline backup utility to do emergency recoveries when instances of your "Yellow Light of Death" occur without notice. Sure I could backup using the built-in utility more frequently but it takes me 6+ hours to make a backup of my content. I have to have an active, functioning system to have backup capability. Even then it's no guarantee it'll back up everything that is important because you allow the content creators the option of using encryption/locking mechanisms of save games and DLC that circumvent the built-in backup utility.
YLOD is a general hardware error, typically meaning that one or both processors have ceased to properly function, so how engineering an offline backup utility work? Did you not know that not only does the PS3 use a very different file format and master boot record, but also the drive is both encrypted and married to the motherboard it was built for? While I can agree that Sony can do a little bit better with the overall backup utility by having the user select the specific data they want to backup instead of make an exact and compressed and split clone of all the data on the hdd.

You already wipe the destination hard drive when moving backed up content to another drive. Where is the risk of backing up all saved games and purchased content? An average backup for me is 6+ hours that my system is running without normal, capable use and even then I don’t get everything backed up. I’ve been a fan of the Playstation since the original grey box PSOne. Only now do I question my decision to stick with Sony. You remove other OS support, then backwards compatibility entirely, even rumors that the future "PS4" not being able to play "PS3" games. As well as patents for proprietary encrypted games and disc based DRM? You're pushing your customers against a wall here. As for me, I can only take so much before I decide you’re not worth my time and money. Everybody has these limits. No wonder people say "skip the consoles just go PC." This probably won't get anywhere but the trash bin or bait for Internet Trolls but whatever. I tried my best. Let’s see how much Sony listens.
You're right.... this isn't going anywhere.... "Goodbye" "Rant" and "Open Letter" threads are all ignored by most people, because most of us have more sense tha putting blind trust into man-made electronics.... everyone knows they will fail, its a gambling game on WHEN it will happen. The only solution to lessen the impact of anger and frustration is to have redundant backups.
BTW, Sony doesn't read the forums.

-Minds are like Parachutes. They work best when open.

-LEARN HOW TO SEARCH BEFORE POSTING.

-LOOK AT TIMESTAMPS BEFORE POSTING. If a thread is 1 year old or more, don't bother posting.

-Yup, you're reading my Sig.... So your commenting on it is an exercise in futility

FiveFourteen · ‎09-05-2012

I didnt get past the first paragraph I'v seen to many post like this its almost like going back in time

Hello Forum, I'm FiveFourteen from the Welcoming Committee. Feel free to contact me by any means necessary if you have any questions. I would be glad to help!

"" FiveFourteen, A.S.I.C's True Leader ""

コミュニティへようこそ！

TornadicInferno · ‎01-02-2009

im surprised they took it in the first place. you voided your warranty and all "rights" as soon as you opened that ps3 and put your own stuff in. if you read the warranty information or just search on here you would have known that.

oh and you can only download it twice per system because people ruined that by game sharing games. meaning, i log onto someones account, download a game i want, for nothing, log back out, BAM, free game.

kythunder · ‎01-27-2012

i read the first couple sentences then decided to not waste any more time on the POINTLESS RANT..

ThePunisher · ‎05-15-2007

TornadicInferno wrote:
im surprised they took it in the first place. you voided your warranty and all "rights" as soon as you opened that ps3 and put your own stuff in. if you read the warranty information or just search on here you would have known that.

oh and you can only download it twice per system because people ruined that by game sharing games. meaning, i log onto someones account, download a game i want, for nothing, log back out, BAM, free game.

I'm not defending the OP post... but you are wrong, upgrading the HDD doesn't void any warranty. How would a process that the manufacture shows how to do in it's own product manual void a warranty? The PS3 has product seals on the case... not the HDD compartment.

Bottom line and has already been stated; you should always keep your original drive around for this very reason.

PSN:ThePunisher || Launch 60GB(now 320GB) || Gamer since October 1977 (Atari VCS launch)

kythunder · ‎01-27-2012

ThePunisher wrote:
TornadicInferno wrote:
im surprised they took it in the first place. you voided your warranty and all "rights" as soon as you opened that ps3 and put your own stuff in. if you read the warranty information or just search on here you would have known that.

oh and you can only download it twice per system because people ruined that by game sharing games. meaning, i log onto someones account, download a game i want, for nothing, log back out, BAM, free game.
I'm not defending the OP post... but you are wrong, upgrading the HDD doesn't void any warranty. How would a process that the manufacture shows how to do in it's own product manual void a warranty? The PS3 has product seals on the case... not the HDD compartment.

Bottom line and has already been stated; you should always keep your original drive around for this very reason.

CORRECT..but many people have sent them back without the hdd in them and then Sony just sends them another one without the hdd and you just put yours back in and format...