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Big Daddy
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Re: Is Sony pushing PS+?

Jul 28, 2014

Ness_and_Sonic wrote:

Winscar_Shinobi wrote:
The problem with your logic ness is that for the online pass to work sony would have to increase game prices to 70$ to adjust for the 10$ pass. So for people who dont play online its 10$ extra for nothing, or they sell a game for 60$ and to access online you have to pay 10$ extra. Which is literally worse than plus. Because you pay 10$ just for 1 games online. No extra free games or large discounts.

Just adding online passes doesn't help anything. All it does is give sony 10$ for a used game sale assuming the used game purchaser wants to use it online. They'd need to charge for new games as well.

Except the fee is a one time fee. You have to keep paying for PS+, I'd prefer to pay the fee once by buying new and get it out of the way. Besides, the main reason for the pass was to get people to buy new, which they make money off, unlike preowned, if I'm not mistaken.


And do you think that once a network of servers and data centers are up and running, that its all bought and paid for?

What about employees? property tax? MASSIVE electricity and water bills to support the equipment and cooling systems?

a $10million dollar data center costs $10million to build and ready to go online. It takes considerable amount of constant positive cash flow to keep it going.

By your logic, you want MORE servers to go offline and be flaky and be shut down after a short time because you only want to make a one time payment to have unlimited access to play ONE game online.


Online Passes don't work. Never have. The developer/publishers that used them saw no actual improvement in cash flow and caused those games to suffer in sales beause of the entire premise of the online pass.

 

 

You THINK that you're ahead of the curve.... but you're behind it because its ALREADY BEEN TRIED before and its been abandoned.

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Big Daddy
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Re: Is Sony pushing PS+?

Jul 28, 2014

JohnKarnes wrote:

I have a question could a dev host it's own games and servers and opt out of the pay for online?  Its's done now for FTP games.


They do..... but because they require such a massive initial investment without any guarantee they will ever break even on it, they leave such to publishers and platform owners.

F2P games are not hosted by the developer. they are hosted by either the publisher, or a contracted data center.

And F2P games thrive on microtransactions where you will literally pay over $100 within a matter of weeks if you're that enveloped into the game. 
I've seen people spend over $1000 on ONE F2P game in just 6months buying pretty much every single piece of content available. Thats the only reason why F2P games are even a viable product. 

While there may be a few cash cow idiots, there are many more plopping down just $10 for some content and oh look.... they've made a profit

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Fender Bender
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Re: Is Sony pushing PS+?

[ Edited ]
Jul 28, 2014

gR3yGh051 wrote:

Thats exactly what YOU are also doing.....

And your logic is flawed. Lots of logical fallaies that don't hold up, and you always complain without offering any solution....

You just want thing to be the way they are on PS3..... not gonna happen.


No, comparing Netflix to Playstation now is fair. As I said, you buy video games through retailers. If you're comparing playstation now, they're very similar. The games are rented, which was how Netflix is. The main difference is the pricing system.

 

I have been suggesting a hybrid of the online pass and PS+ where players can choose one or the others. To offset new game costs for PS+ members, they online pass codes could be redeemed for PSN wallet codes.

 

I'm not going to give up.

 


gR3yGh051 wrote:

And do you think that once a network of servers and data centers are up and running, that its all bought and paid for?

What about employees? property tax? MASSIVE electricity and water bills to support the equipment and cooling systems?

a $10million dollar data center costs $10million to build and ready to go online. It takes considerable amount of constant positive cash flow to keep it going.

By your logic, you want MORE servers to go offline and be flaky and be shut down after a short time because you only want to make a one time payment to have unlimited access to play ONE game online.


Online Passes don't work. Never have. The developer/publishers that used them saw no actual improvement in cash flow and caused those games to suffer in sales beause of the entire premise of the online pass.

 

 

You THINK that you're ahead of the curve.... but you're behind it because its ALREADY BEEN TRIED before and its been abandoned.


Yes.

 

So, offer them a perentage of online pass money.

 

So, isn't that what DLC is for?

 

They'll go down even if you kept paying for it. Just look at all the games on Xbox that Microsoft has pulled the plug on over the years.

 

Not alone, which brings me to my next point...

 

It's never been tried as a HYBRID system. That's why I suggested the two be offered as alternatives to each other.

 


Black0Panther wrote:

Ness_and_Sonic wrote:

I don't use Origin that much, but I will claim you're wrong on GOG and Steam. GOG doesn't use DRM, so the license monitoring thing isn't there. Steam offers chat, cloud syncing, and hosting of user generated content. Heck, they even have an anti-cheat system in place.


Stam licensing and monitoring isnt there? LOL ROFLMAO! Dude you buy some thing on steam either you or as a gift. Ounce its installed you cant do no more with it. DRM at its worst in my eye. They monitor what you do and make sure you dont do illigal stuff.  They got a system in place to ensure this. Sorry Ness you are talking out of your behind now.  

 

Have you tried steam chat? LOL Its game side not server side IE STEAM DONT HOST OR DO THIS!

 

The only anti cheat  stuff got is on there games only. Not the million of others sold by them IE Valve games. The cheat is a small program launched by the server app which 9 out of 10 is on the hots computer not on the steam network itself. You make it sound like steam is runnin millions of servers there not. all there doing is listing games and taking you to them. The games are ran off of person computers or servers  paid by a fan of the game not steam.


Re-read that. I said GOG doesn't have it. Steam might monitor licenses, but they do other things as well. Also, if you hate DRM, you better not being getting games off the playstation store. Other than on your primary system, the games are locked to your account on other PS4s. That's technically a form of DRM.

 

Yes. It's fine as far as I'm concerned. Nothing fancy, but it gets the job done.

 

So Valve owns Call of Duty? Strange, I was under the impression it was Activision. I noticed it has an anti-cheat system. Also, is there any reason the PS4 can't do implement an anti-cheat system and allow players host the matches on their PCs instead of requiring PS+ for online multiplayer. You know, a reasons that don't make Sony sound paranoid/afraid.

To live a life of power, you must have faith that what you believe is right, even if others tell you you're wrong. The first thing you must do to live a life of power is to find courage. You must be ready to reach beyond the boundaries of Time itself. And to do that, all you need is the will to take that first step. - Sonic CD Japanese front cover
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Wastelander
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Re: Is Sony pushing PS+?

Jul 28, 2014
@Black0Panther
Steam DRM monitors steam. For steam. It protects itself. Not the other stuff on your pc. I've never had steam tell me it can't install because of what trash is on my pc.

You can back up steam games and register multiple devices that can play the games, No primaries. But a limit. Steam DRM is just like any other DRM except that it respects the idea that it is a PC and should be open to change. Steam has an open library and multiple places that offer sales that psplus gives at times. For example, Gog had a 1 or two day sale giving the same discount PSPlus gave without subscription.

Besides, Steam isn't device restricted. I get a powerful computer? Steam and the games will run on it. And the increase in performance will help almost every game. So I don't have to look at shady emulators to force a game into hd or add a shader that makes the game look like jet set radio.

I also don't have to nitpick about the options in game or their specific character design choices I can modify the game to my liking and add components to it, personalizing the experience for me. And if I made it myself, I can share it with people. That's enjoying THE GAME

To be fair, drm free games will always be slightly superior due to it being completely yours to use legally in your possession. But steam organizes over 3000 games and localizes it to the point that you don't have to look for them, and they are always in your face and available to you. After the cheap 3-20 dollar bundles, you feel obligated to prefer steam over searching and buying from limited drm websites. The only drm steam serves is that steam as a program emulates a console. Using psn and insulting steam is pure hypocrisy from a digital consumer's perspective.

I wont bother arguing with ness and sonic. He's going to beat ps plus to the ground.
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Fender Bender
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Re: Is Sony pushing PS+?

[ Edited ]
Jul 28, 2014

@Xedhadeaus My only issue with PS+ is the online multiplayer fee practically being force. If Sony wants to keep other things behind PS+ like the "free" games, their discounts, the ability to resell digital games, Xgame Chat, trophies, etc., that's their choice. It's that one thing that bothers me. It's the reason I chose to get a PS3 over what I call an Extortionbox 360.

To live a life of power, you must have faith that what you believe is right, even if others tell you you're wrong. The first thing you must do to live a life of power is to find courage. You must be ready to reach beyond the boundaries of Time itself. And to do that, all you need is the will to take that first step. - Sonic CD Japanese front cover
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Is Sony pushing PS+?

Jul 28, 2014

Ness_and_Sonic wrote:


In a capitalist society, paying customers are a privilege. That's why they needed to treated with respect. Besides, like I said, the datacaps are partially to blame for things. If anything, ISPs are the problem, not the customers. How you cannot grasp the fact that it costs Sony to have a LARGE bandwidth pipe to provide us with their service is beyond me. There are NO data caps for that type of connection and it is a VERY large cost that they are not just going to eat because you think it should be for free. When you go to the grocery store and buy something, you don't think the cost includes the price of gas to get the product to their store, the cost of the stock getting on to the shelves?

 

I have a relative who does have one. Nope, I haven't noticed anything. Like I said, it's memetic. you believe its better because you're paying an extra fee for it. I believe it is better because I am paying for it? LOL Yeah I guess I cannot tell the difference between downloading 10GB in 30 minutes as opposed to an hour. So you don't have one but feel since a relative has one you have first hand knowledge? Yeah ok.

 

I'm saying their are other things that cost them money last gen. Example, people got games from the Playstation store without paying that way. Sony has since patched it out, but making them pay for those things is one way to help cover the costs. Stealing games? Uhm...that is illegal and like I said they should prosecute those that did it. Gamesharing? Well that led to other issues and IF you did that you left yourself wide open for theft. That is on you for not using some common sense.

 

I don't use Origin that much, but I will claim you're wrong on GOG and Steam. GOG doesn't use DRM, so the license monitoring thing isn't there. Steam offers chat, cloud syncing, and hosting of user generated content. Heck, they even have an anti-cheat system in place. However, if Sony's bet Origin SUCKS! Wrong display settings the app won't open, dual monitor the app won't open. I have a laptop that will open origin and a gaming rig that will not because of the graphics card. That makes sense. No wonder it is free! Isn't their anti-cheat punk buster? Heard there were ways around that. I am also pretty sure that Steam uses resources from their clients PCs to support their infrastructure. Kind of like how old hackers use to setup websites on hacked PCs so your computer was acting as a webserver without you knowing.

 

I don't wear hats. However, my trust has been betrayed by Sony in the past, which is why I don't trust them now. Then leave. It really is that simple. I however have not had any of these issues. I never game shared and gave my master account info out so there is no chance of me being "hacked". Which isn't hacked by the way. I have never purchased a game that I didn't intend to purchase so I have never had to ask for a refund.  I guess pretty common sense things that people don't seem to understand.


 

PSXBGamer- wrote:
"2000-2016 still in the year 2000 i didnt know we was in the year 3000"


http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-General/Does-it-bother-you-that-Sony-brags-about-how-well-they-re-doing/td-p/45935146/page/12


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRTN97XEASQ
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Fender Bender
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Re: Is Sony pushing PS+?

Jul 28, 2014

SHANE523 wrote:
 How you cannot grasp the fact that it costs Sony to have a LARGE bandwidth pipe to provide us with their service is beyond me. There are NO data caps for that type of connection and it is a VERY large cost that they are not just going to eat because you think it should be for free. When you go to the grocery store and buy something, you don't think the cost includes the price of gas to get the product to their store, the cost of the stock getting on to the shelves?
 I believe it is better because I am paying for it? LOL Yeah I guess I cannot tell the difference between downloading 10GB in 30 minutes as opposed to an hour. So you don't have one but feel since a relative has one you have first hand knowledge? Yeah ok.
Stealing games? Uhm...that is illegal and like I said they should prosecute those that did it. Gamesharing? Well that led to other issues and IF you did that you left yourself wide open for theft. That is on you for not using some common sense.
Origin SUCKS! Wrong display settings the app won't open, dual monitor the app won't open. I have a laptop that will open origin and a gaming rig that will not because of the graphics card. That makes sense. No wonder it is free! Isn't their anti-cheat punk buster? Heard there were ways around that. I am also pretty sure that Steam uses resources from their clients PCs to support their infrastructure. Kind of like how old hackers use to setup websites on hacked PCs so your computer was acting as a webserver without you knowing.
Then leave. It really is that simple. I however have not had any of these issues. I never game shared and gave my master account info out so there is no chance of me being "hacked". Which isn't hacked by the way. I have never purchased a game that I didn't intend to purchase so I have never had to ask for a refund.  I guess pretty common sense things that people don't seem to understand. 

Like I said, I don't take Sony's excuses. As for the datacaps, even if Sony doesn't have them, normal consumers do. That's part of the problem. As for going to the grocery store, isn't that bundled into the selling price of the products?

 

I believe one of the PS4's selling points was being able play games while you download. That can make you think you downloaded the game faster when its only partially downloaded.

 

There was special firmware they used to access the developer side of the store. This allowed them to get games with fake credit cards that weren't checked. No gamesharing was involved.

 

Again, I don't use Origin that much. Probably the only franchise that EA has that interests me is the Sims. As for cheat systems at least they offer you a piece of mind. What's stopping people from cheating on the PS4? As for what Steam does, they offer dedicated server software for free. Plus, Steam has an offline mode.

 

I am not giving hope any time soon. I am willing to forgive. Also, the betrayal has nothing to do with gamesharing or account hacking. As for the games, that $50/year could have gone towards games that I was interested in instead of Sony's game of roullete.

To live a life of power, you must have faith that what you believe is right, even if others tell you you're wrong. The first thing you must do to live a life of power is to find courage. You must be ready to reach beyond the boundaries of Time itself. And to do that, all you need is the will to take that first step. - Sonic CD Japanese front cover
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Is Sony pushing PS+?

Jul 28, 2014

Ness_and_Sonic wrote:


Like I said, I don't take Sony's excuses. As for the datacaps, even if Sony doesn't have them, normal consumers do. That's part of the problem. As for going to the grocery store, isn't that bundled into the selling price of the products? What does datacaps have anything to do with the cost of the PS+ subscription then? It has NOTHING to do with Sony, that is between you and your ISP and has NOTHING to do with PS+! And YES that is my point, the datacenter costs are added in to the selling price of PS+. It isn't all about the games or discounted pricing on games.

 

I believe one of the PS4's selling points was being able play games while you download. That can make you think you downloaded the game faster when its only partially downloaded. OMFG!! NO. I don't even think that feature is available yet. I know when a game or download is complete! I am pretty sure I can tell the difference in performance on my network seeing that that is what I do for a living.

 

There was special firmware they used to access the developer side of the store. This allowed them to get games with fake credit cards that weren't checked. No gamesharing was involved. Then this IS an illegal activity. What does that have to do with PS+ subscriptions.

 

Again, I don't use Origin that much. Probably the only franchise that EA has that interests me is the Sims. As for cheat systems at least they offer you a piece of mind. What's stopping people from cheating on the PS4? As for what Steam does, they offer dedicated server software for free. Plus, Steam has an offline mode. So you just proved our point for Steam. Steam doesn't offer the hosting, you are hosting so it better not cost you. I can play games on the PS4 offline. I would like there to be a better system in place that actually showed the punishment of cheaters. I think both Sony and the devs should be proactive on this.

 

I am not giving hope any time soon. I am willing to forgive. Also, the betrayal has nothing to do with gamesharing or account hacking. As for the games, that $50/year could have gone towards games that I was interested in instead of Sony's game of roullete. So if you don't like the games then PS+ is bad business. So what if the other 8 million people that have PS+ like those games? Is it still bad business? Just because the games do not interest you doesn't mean the PS+ a bad thing. Maybe you need to open yourself up to trying something new?


 

PSXBGamer- wrote:
"2000-2016 still in the year 2000 i didnt know we was in the year 3000"


http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-General/Does-it-bother-you-that-Sony-brags-about-how-well-they-re-doing/td-p/45935146/page/12


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRTN97XEASQ
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Fender Bender
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Re: Is Sony pushing PS+?

Jul 28, 2014

SHANE523 wrote:
What does datacaps have anything to do with the cost of the PS+ subscription then? It has NOTHING to do with Sony, that is between you and your ISP and has NOTHING to do with PS+! And YES that is my point, the datacenter costs are added in to the selling price of PS+. It isn't all about the games or discounted pricing on games.
OMFG!! NO. I don't even think that feature is available yet. I know when a game or download is complete! I am pretty sure I can tell the difference in performance on my network seeing that that is what I do for a living.
Then this IS an illegal activity. What does that have to do with PS+ subscriptions.
So you just proved our point for Steam. Steam doesn't offer the hosting, you are hosting so it better not cost you. I can play games on the PS4 offline. I would like there to be a better system in place that actually showed the punishment of cheaters. I think both Sony and the devs should be proactive on this.
So if you don't like the games then PS+ is bad business. So what if the other 8 million people that have PS+ like those games? Is it still bad business? Just because the games do not interest you doesn't mean the PS+ a bad thing. Maybe you need to open yourself up to trying something new?

Paying Sony won't fix those kind of issues for users. Its the consumers ISPs that are part of the problem. Unfortunately, not everyone can get access to quality service like Google Fiber or even have much of a choice. Also I'd rather have it bundled into the price game... as in a per product basis like grocery stores do.

 

I have been hearing things about how the PS4 is different from a PC. Who is to say Sony doesn't have their own bag of deceptive tricks on their propriety system? If that feature is available, I wouldn't be surprised if they are using it. It's supposed to download the games in parts that are set up in order, if I'm not mistaken. 

 

Just another example of something else that cost them money. I imagine they could have lost more from that than anything else. The entire store was left open through the developer side, which means a lot of potential for abuse

 

I said they offered the ability to download dedicated servers. That doesn't exactly mean they don't have their own as well. As for cheaters, you would think Sony would have a system in place for that. I'd propose going after trophies for one thing, but that's just me.

 

If people like it, good for them, just don't push it on people who aren't interested by requiring it for online multiplayer on retail games is what I am asking. That's it. Also, I tried PS+ and I was not impressed with it.

To live a life of power, you must have faith that what you believe is right, even if others tell you you're wrong. The first thing you must do to live a life of power is to find courage. You must be ready to reach beyond the boundaries of Time itself. And to do that, all you need is the will to take that first step. - Sonic CD Japanese front cover
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Ghost of Sparta
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Re: Is Sony pushing PS+?

Jul 28, 2014

Ness_and_Sonic wrote:

SHANE523 wrote:
What does datacaps have anything to do with the cost of the PS+ subscription then? It has NOTHING to do with Sony, that is between you and your ISP and has NOTHING to do with PS+! And YES that is my point, the datacenter costs are added in to the selling price of PS+. It isn't all about the games or discounted pricing on games.
OMFG!! NO. I don't even think that feature is available yet. I know when a game or download is complete! I am pretty sure I can tell the difference in performance on my network seeing that that is what I do for a living.
Then this IS an illegal activity. What does that have to do with PS+ subscriptions.
So you just proved our point for Steam. Steam doesn't offer the hosting, you are hosting so it better not cost you. I can play games on the PS4 offline. I would like there to be a better system in place that actually showed the punishment of cheaters. I think both Sony and the devs should be proactive on this.
So if you don't like the games then PS+ is bad business. So what if the other 8 million people that have PS+ like those games? Is it still bad business? Just because the games do not interest you doesn't mean the PS+ a bad thing. Maybe you need to open yourself up to trying something new?

Paying Sony won't fix those kind of issues for users. Its the consumers ISPs that are part of the problem. Unfortunately, not everyone can get access to quality service like Google Fiber or even have much of a choice. Also I'd rather have it bundled into the price game... as in a per product basis like grocery stores do.

 

I have been hearing things about how the PS4 is different from a PC. Who is to say Sony doesn't have their own bag of deceptive tricks on their propriety system? If that feature is available, I wouldn't be surprised if they are using it. It's supposed to download the games in parts that are set up in order, if I'm not mistaken. 

 

Just another example of something else that cost them money. I imagine they could have lost more from that than anything else. The entire store was left open through the developer side, which means a lot of potential for abuse

 

I said they offered the ability to download dedicated servers. That doesn't exactly mean they don't have their own as well. As for cheaters, you would think Sony would have a system in place for that. I'd propose going after trophies for one thing, but that's just me.

 

If people like it, good for them, just don't push it on people who aren't interested by requiring it for online multiplayer on retail games is what I am asking. That's it. Also, I tried PS+ and I was not impressed with it.


It apears that he think the PSN is operating out of of some ones garage. That theres no money invested in hardware, No money invested in software or people cause it just doesnt exist. He believes its a tiny server room in some ones garage and that it costs pennies to operate.

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