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Monster Hunter
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Re: Is PS4 has DRM, will you Dip?

Jun 9, 2013

Not sure how you think a publisher has the right to money on a product in perpetuity? If a game is purchased legitimately (not through piracy) then the publisher received their money. They are not entitled to money every time that game changes hands. A car manufacturer is not entitled to keep receiving money each and every time a car they produced is sold, so why should a publisher?

 

Just to be clear I’m 100% anti-piracy and believe people should support companies making games by purchasing them. I purchase 90%+ of my games new. Most times with pre-orders in fact. That being said, without the ability to try a game first I will purchase some new IP used because I’m not dropping $60 on an iffy (to me) product. Many times those used purchases directly lead to new purchases. I would never have tried Halo if I did not purchase Halo3 used. That lead me to purchasing new all Halo3 maps, Halo3: ODST, Halo: Reach (w/maps), Halo: Anniversary, and Halo4 (legendary). This is just once example of used sales leading to new sales that would never have come about without the initial used sale.

 

The DRM also prevents me from lending or trading games with my friends after I legitimately purchased them. I can loan my car out so why not a game? These practices are extremely anti-consumer in my opinion!

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VP of Gaming
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Re: Is PS4 has DRM, will you Dip?

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Jun 9, 2013

brigantine_72 wrote:

Not sure how you think a publisher has the right to money on a product in perpetuity? If a game is purchased legitimately (not through piracy) then the publisher received their money. They are not entitled to money every time that game changes hands. A car manufacturer is not entitled to keep receiving money each and every time a car they produced is sold, so why should a publisher?

 

Just to be clear I’m 100% anti-piracy and believe people should support companies making games by purchasing them. I purchase 90%+ of my games new. Most times with pre-orders in fact. That being said, without the ability to try a game first I will purchase some new IP used because I’m not dropping $60 on an iffy (to me) product. Many times those used purchases directly lead to new purchases. I would never have tried Halo if I did not purchase Halo3 used. That lead me to purchasing new all Halo3 maps, Halo3: ODST, Halo: Reach (w/maps), Halo: Anniversary, and Halo4 (legendary). This is just once example of used sales leading to new sales that would never have come about without the initial used sale.

 

The DRM also prevents me from lending or trading games with my friends after I legitimately purchased them. I can loan my car out so why not a game? These practices are extremely anti-consumer in my opinion!


As I always say when "gamers" bring up cars, they only prove one thing. They DON'T KNOW SQUAT ABOUT CARS! Auto makers make something called, say it with me, PARTS. If you broke a car down and sold it for parts, you'd get more for it than you would for the entire car. This is not something I just made up as a gamer logic "fact", it's actually been proven. Auto makers continue to make parts for cars for DECADES after the initial model launch. That Dodge Dart you see on the road may have been bought in 2012, but you'll be able to buy parts for the next twenty to thirty years. So yes, they DO indeed continue to make money long after the car is sold, unless you're under the misguided "gamer" belief that a car never breaks down.

 

Futhermore, auto makers such as BMW, Jaguar, Merceds, Volvo, and even Toyota, Honda, Ford and Nissan now have what's called a "certified pre-owned program". That's where a car is taken in as a trade, inspect it, peform whatever maintenence on it, and then sell is at a factory certified pre-owned car. Dealers have to pay into this program. Many cars such as Volvos, Jags, Mercs, and BMW's also require specialized tools to work on. Who do you think sells those? Dealers also have to be registered for service, and they have to pay into the manufaturers program for that. It costs in some cases up to $300,000 just to put the auto makers logo on your building.

 

So yes, auto makers DO make LOADS of cash on used cars long after the initial sale. Th e car analogy is invalid, regardless of how much "gamer logic" you want to apply to it or how many times you want to repeat it, and it will continue to be so.

 

 

Games are no longer the same as they were years ago. You used to buy a cartridge and that was it. Now you have online play, servers, server security, patches, and downloadable extras. Who do you think does all the work to bring you these things? Surely you don't believe they all just appear out of thin air? You have support that's gone from zero to now YEARS, and the people who work to bring you all these things need to be PAID. Video games are a BUSINESS, despite the belief to the contrary. Very real people do very real work to put the game and all it's features into the your hands. They all deserve to be paid.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Is PS4 has DRM, will you Dip?

Jun 9, 2013

Cars and software are apples to oranges, devs have every right to charge if software changes hands. You buy a new game for $50 play it get bored give it to a friend who plays it for a year, you don't see a problem? Sorry but your friend needs to pay for it. Why do you need to lends friends games? If they want a game let them buy it.  Not trying to be a **bleep** but it's just the right thing to do.

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Re: Is PS4 has DRM, will you Dip?

Jun 9, 2013
Here's the only problem I have with DRM. My friend wants to try a game that I have. I bring it over to his house to play on his console. He doesn't own the game yet, so he has to pay for a game that he doesn't even know if he wants it yet. We play the game for a few hours and I take it home with me. Why should he have to pay full price for a game that he played with me for 2 - 3 hours to see if he wanted it? It's nothing more than a longer than ps+ demo. If he likes the game, he goes out and buys it. Yes, there is the remote play of games on the PS4 and the spectating mode on the PS4, but if I'm playing at my house, I don't want them jumping in and taking over for me unless I ask them to do that. You can also watch all the gameplay videos you want, but sometimes you just don't know if you want a game until you play it yourself.

That is the only thing that I don't like about DRM on a console. On PC, I have absolutely no problem with DRM and even support it. I support it on PC because PC games are so freaking easy to pirate now, it's pathetic.

On consoles, I just want to be able to take my game that I purchased to my friend's house and play it on their system with them without them having to pay for the game. I don't leave it there.

On PC you don't go and bring games to other people's houses. This is because everything has to be installed. If they either don't meet the system requirements or don't want you to install a game on their machine, then the point of bringing the game was pointless. On console, you have one machine that will play every single game made for it without fail. This makes it so that you can bring games to your friends' houses and play with them for a few hours and take the game home.

It isn't rocket science, it's what the console community has been doing for 40 years.
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Re: Is PS4 has DRM, will you Dip?

Jun 9, 2013

the_ed_85 wrote:
Here's the only problem I have with DRM. My friend wants to try a game that I have. I bring it over to his house to play on his console. He doesn't own the game yet, so he has to pay for a game that he doesn't even know if he wants it yet. We play the game for a few hours and I take it home with me. Why should he have to pay full price for a game that he played with me for 2 - 3 hours to see if he wanted it? It's nothing more than a longer than ps+ demo. If he likes the game, he goes out and buys it. Yes, there is the remote play of games on the PS4 and the spectating mode on the PS4, but if I'm playing at my house, I don't want them jumping in and taking over for me unless I ask them to do that. You can also watch all the gameplay videos you want, but sometimes you just don't know if you want a game until you play it yourself.

That is the only thing that I don't like about DRM on a console. On PC, I have absolutely no problem with DRM and even support it. I support it on PC because PC games are so freaking easy to pirate now, it's pathetic.

On consoles, I just want to be able to take my game that I purchased to my friend's house and play it on their system with them without them having to pay for the game. I don't leave it there.

On PC you don't go and bring games to other people's houses. This is because everything has to be installed. If they either don't meet the system requirements or don't want you to install a game on their machine, then the point of bringing the game was pointless. On console, you have one machine that will play every single game made for it without fail. This makes it so that you can bring games to your friends' houses and play with them for a few hours and take the game home.

It isn't rocket science, it's what the console community has been doing for 40 years.

You can't just say to him "sign on to my account and start a new game"? Doesn't seem like that big a deal. Worst case, he downloads a demo, or in our collective outrage have we completely forgotten about those?

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Re: Is PS4 has DRM, will you Dip?

Jun 9, 2013
Yes, there are demos, but what if they don't have Internet access to get the demo, or they're against putting their system online because of hacking, or distrust online stores with credit card and personal information. Not everybody plays games online. Why should they have to pay full price for a game that they're just trying out for a few hours.
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Re: Is PS4 has DRM, will you Dip?

Jun 9, 2013
Can someone provide a link that says DRM on consoles will mean a person can't borrow a friends game without being charged by sony? This isn't even me being an a-hole. It's a serious request seeing as that appears to be he general consensus. That doesn't even happen on pc. If I loan a friend a boxed pc game, that person can still install it and play it without being charged to do so. I'd speculate that a charge would hit used game retailers trying to flip their product that they didn't spent 1 dollar or hour to make.
"While we're being honest, might I suggest something.

Please put your trophy profile as private, otherwise I might have believed you own a PS4 (thanks for the fake pic though)."


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Monster Hunter
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Re: Is PS4 has DRM, will you Dip?

Jun 9, 2013

While I get your issues with the car example I think it still works. My guess is the "gamer logic” comment is an insult so I’m hoping we can keep the discussion friendly. We can disagree without the typical game forum insults. I can lend a car to a friend, family member or wife with no restrictions.   When you purchase something it is yours to pretty much do as you want. Yes companies can and should try to keep you as a customer but that is not the same as making you a customer. Using the car example can purchase aftermarket products or company approved products. Yes your trade in value may be higher with company approved parts but you can still get whatever one you want.

 

I don’t think the PC example of DRM is valid for two reasons. PC has major piracy issues that consoles don’t have as bad and DRM systems such as Steam pass along savings by the deals they have. I don’t mind not being able to trade or loan games on PC because the deals I get on Steam make up for it. This is give and take and both parties win. This is not the case with consoles in my experience and unless they announce something radical I don’t see it changing. And again I want to state my console digital download experience is strictly XBLive so Sony may have a vastly different pricing system.

 

In any case my point is I’m hoping Sony decides to go in a more consumer friendly manner with the PS4.

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Re: Is PS4 has DRM, will you Dip?

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Jun 9, 2013

Mayhem1421 wrote:

I'm biased because I have zero issue with DRM? Because a dev/pub has the right to the money they earned?  Also, this notion that DRM is anti-consumer is just rubbish.  I have 0 empathy for people that have 3 consoles, you had enough $$$ for the boxes now you gotta pay forthe software.  This is no different than PC games/software one copy per machine/account. 



Yes you are biased becasue you are already branded cattle. What money its already been paid for. Hi I am toyata Since you brought a used camry you can only drive it on the night of the full moon in NJ. Also the games are physical copies Steam allows for two game sharing PC's but Only one can use at a time if Online. Empathy about multiple consoles that still cost less then the rig you mostly have lmfao behold the Master Race of PC gamers. DRM as it is being proposed in the console market is anti-consumer and destructive to the console market. DRM that can see and hear you and stop movies if to many people are watching. As for your closing argument 25 years of selling and sharing games from atari to PS3 never gonna change and DRM doesn't even work on PC SKIDROW.

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Re: Is PS4 has DRM, will you Dip?

Jun 9, 2013
 
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