Reply
Apr 03 2011
By: Thumper-17 First Son 14 posts
Offline

Control Inputs on NGP.

13 replies 18 views Edited Apr 3, 2011

So let me get this straight,

The NGP will have a sixaxis control in addition to a three axis move/tilt control, a touch screen, a 1:1 touch pad back and TWO joysticks in addition to the D-pad which at this point feels more like, "Oh hey, we souped this baby up, we even threw in a d-pad for ya!"

I mean, take that in for a moment and process how much could be done with all of that, seriously, take five minutes and try to get your head around the sheer number, the RAW AMOUNT of possibilities. This isn't even counting a possible voice input feature using an accessory or built in speaker.

If somehow, some way, a game manages to have crap controls on this then I just quit, I flat out quit.

Message 1 of 14 (18 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
I Only Post Everything
Registered: 06/06/2010
Offline
1306 posts
 

Re: Control Inputs on NGP.

Apr 3, 2011

Thumper-17 wrote:

So let me get this straight,

The NGP will have a sixaxis control in addition to a three axis move/tilt control, a touch screen, a 1:1 touch pad back and TWO joysticks in addition to the D-pad which at this point feels more like, "Oh hey, we souped this baby up, we even threw in a d-pad for ya!"

I mean, take that in for a moment and process how much could be done with all of that, seriously, take five minutes and try to get your head around the sheer number, the RAW AMOUNT of possibilities. This isn't even counting a possible voice input feature using an accessory or built in speaker.

If somehow, some way, a game manages to have crap controls on this then I just quit, I flat out quit.

You forgot about the front and rear facing camera. Those allow for Augmented Reality input using the camera on the display or using what the camera captures for things like head/face tracking. The NGP actually has one of it's entire ARM Cortex A9 MP 4 cores used just for camera functions. That's 25% of the NGP's multi-thread action. Sony is really serious about the NGP's role with cameras.

The NGP's GPS should play an interesting role. I personally thought it would be cool if there where a racing game like Gran Turismo that made the NGP double as a speedometer and GPS just by using GPS and Skyhook triangulations.


(I know this is in a airplane but, I hope you get the point. It's about the GPS and MPH reading from the unit that makes the difference.)

The safer you drove, the more stats you get and those stats could be used in the actual game. The only thing is, it would look like it did on the video. That's to protect the driver so they don't have to worry about anything but about getting to their destination and how fast they are actually driving.

Touch inputs alone for the NGP is interesting. Mostly because it is capacitive and game devs aren't working with buttons. It is a gas that senses touch and displaces electrodes; than that action will be mapped into a game. That alone is interesting and the NGP has two capaitve touch devices. The display and the back panel.

The NGP gives the game creator ideas for days. It is just up to those game creators to hypothesize and use their imaginations to test, build, tear down and end up with a good end product. It's totally in their hands.

Message 2 of 14 (18 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Uncharted Territory
Registered: 05/16/2005
Offline
1680 posts
 

Re: Control Inputs on NGP.

Apr 3, 2011

Yes in deed I hope that the clicking affect spoke of for the analogs act as a L3 and R3.....and the back touch can split like the laptop touch mouse's with the scroll page and left and right click ability to allow for the touch panel and an L2 and R2....well then there is your PS3 controller.....

Never the less the DS3 still suffers in games (because of developers choices as to how to use the controller layout) where the buttoning is poor.....I wish that all developers would get it straight as insomniac did in Resistance 1 & 2 and give us the developers 2-5 layouts and then the custom controller layout....I am dumbfounded why as to this day we still don't have a custom control option for every game that comes....it is beyond me and I must say there are still games to this day that suffer poor control options....and we will always suffer poor control options and have to adapt and get use to them....when the developer can just have a custom control setting option...

For instance I don't like games that have decided to swap L1 & R1 for L2 & R2....who the he11 thoguht it was a good idea for L2 & R2 to be aim & fire....this is not XBOX....I don't want my L & R 2's used like L & R Trigger's sorry if I make issues saying that

Photobucket
Photobucket
Photobucket
PhotobucketPhotobucket
Message 3 of 14 (18 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Treasure Hunter
Registered: 07/27/2008
Offline
5189 posts
 

Re: Control Inputs on NGP.

Apr 4, 2011

Wakefulness wrote:

You forgot about the front and rear facing camera. Those allow for Augmented Reality input using the camera on the display or using what the camera captures for things like head/face tracking. The NGP actually has one of it's entire ARM Cortex A9 MP 4 cores used just for camera functions. That's 25% of the NGP's multi-thread action. Sony is really serious about the NGP's role with cameras.

......



I think you misunderstood what they were saying about the headtracking, one of the cores is not dedicated to it. What was said that if you want to use it at all it will take a whole core to process it (it is a complicated process and can be difficult to implement, especially smooth tracking when there is suddden movement). They were basically pointing out that headtracking is possible but there is a downside to it.

Also we must understand that in the GDC speech it was pointed out that a fast frame rate was the priority for the cameras so that they can be used in games, that will mean the resolution will not be high end, so do not expect to take good high quality photographs with it.

Message 4 of 14 (18 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Uncharted Territory
Registered: 05/16/2005
Offline
1680 posts
 

Re: Control Inputs on NGP.

Apr 4, 2011

yea I don't know if I wanna make the cool effects with the dinosaurs or take great pics with my NGP and send them over the Internet to post on a forum on send to a friend via PSN in an "XMB" message so to speak

Photobucket
Photobucket
Photobucket
PhotobucketPhotobucket
Message 5 of 14 (18 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
I Only Post Everything
Registered: 02/07/2011
Offline
989 posts
 

Re: Control Inputs on NGP.

Apr 4, 2011

Lets just hope they focus on making GOOD games with GOOD storylines instead of just exploiting the controls to MAKE you use them(see Wii)


I'm no troll, I just dont like you.
Message 6 of 14 (18 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Uncharted Territory
Registered: 05/16/2005
Offline
1680 posts
 

Re: Control Inputs on NGP.

Apr 4, 2011

I have a Wii and are very satisfied with it Mario Wii is sweet....... and still need to get that 007 Golden Eye to see what's really up

Photobucket
Photobucket
Photobucket
PhotobucketPhotobucket
Message 7 of 14 (18 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
I Only Post Everything
Registered: 06/06/2010
Offline
1306 posts
 

Re: Control Inputs on NGP.

Apr 5, 2011

CaptainHuggyface wrote:

Wakefulness wrote:

You forgot about the front and rear facing camera. Those allow for Augmented Reality input using the camera on the display or using what the camera captures for things like head/face tracking. The NGP actually has one of it's entire ARM Cortex A9 MP 4 cores used just for camera functions. That's 25% of the NGP's multi-thread action. Sony is really serious about the NGP's role with cameras.

......



I think you misunderstood what they were saying about the headtracking, one of the cores is not dedicated to it. What was said that if you want to use it at all it will take a whole core to process it (it is a complicated process and can be difficult to implement, especially smooth tracking when there is suddden movement). They were basically pointing out that headtracking is possible but there is a downside to it.

Also we must understand that in the GDC speech it was pointed out that a fast frame rate was the priority for the cameras so that they can be used in games, that will mean the resolution will not be high end, so do not expect to take good high quality photographs with it.

So the architecture is totally open at all cores? That is different from what Sony where discussing at GDC. This is what the architecture for the NGP's ARM Cortex A9 chip was described as,

gdc11-ngp-preso-22 (1).jpg

The cores are symmetrical for multi-threading but, the picture illustrates that only three cores would be available. Hence, three multi-thread instances and the subtraction of 25% of the NGP's multi-threading potential. There is also another picture that illustrated how camera functions would take up an entire core, which hinted that the camera would have architectural priority of an entire core. Since my knowledge in chip architecture is very limited, it would seem that one of the NGP's entire core is used by camera functions and that priority is set and cannot be adjusted by game developers.

There are some limitations to the NGP's camera however, there is no doubt it will be a good camera. That is to say, for what it's purpose is. Let's not be so pessimistic about the NGP's camera as the PSP's camera is an eye sore in comparison. =D

Message 8 of 14 (18 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
I Only Post Everything
Registered: 06/06/2010
Offline
1306 posts
 

Re: Control Inputs on NGP.

Apr 5, 2011

DEMOCRAC-Y wrote:

Lets just hope they focus on making GOOD games with GOOD storylines instead of just exploiting the controls to MAKE you use them(see Wii)

That will probably come with experience both from the user and the game creator. Gaging between how good the game is and how one used to new controls (outside of traditional DS3 like controls) will also come down to ergonomics and the NGP's super oval design will help that. There is also going to be some use for that wrist strap. Also, the news is the NGP is pretty thin and light.

Message 9 of 14 (18 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Treasure Hunter
Registered: 07/27/2008
Offline
5189 posts
 

Re: Control Inputs on NGP.

Apr 5, 2011

Wakefulness wrote:

So the architecture is totally open at all cores? That is different from what Sony where discussing at GDC. This is what the architecture for the NGP's ARM Cortex A9 chip was described as,

/servlet/JiveServlet/downloadImage/2-31047062-8094/gdc11-ngp-preso-22+%281%29.jpg

The cores are symmetrical for multi-threading but, the picture illustrates that only three cores would be available. Hence, three multi-thread instances and the subtraction of 25% of the NGP's multi-threading potential. There is also another picture that illustrated how camera functions would take up an entire core, which hinted that the camera would have architectural priority of an entire core. Since my knowledge in chip architecture is very limited, it would seem that one of the NGP's entire core is used by camera functions and that priority is set and cannot be adjusted by game developers.

There are some limitations to the NGP's camera however, there is no doubt it will be a good camera. That is to say, for what it's purpose is. Let's not be so pessimistic about the NGP's camera as the PSP's camera is an eye sore in comparison. =D


I am trouble finding a clearer image of that slide, I remember seeing it during the talk but I can not find at what point. But during the speech when they talk about head tracking it is said "if you plan on using head-tracking...." which makes it sound like an option, and actual point is that head-tracking takes up an entire core not just the camera function, so I would say maybe out of the three remaining cores one would be taken up by head-tracking if only 3 are available, maybe the other is for the user interface and backgraound tasks like the "Near" service, GPS, internet traffic etc.

And the camera will be a good camera, it is hjust that they said in the speech that it will be optimised for frame rate and to do that for two small cameras you need to keep the resolution down (it depends on what chip you are using, but generally if you increase the resolution you lower the response time unless you get a larger sensor chip). I think they will keep both cameras the same (not like the iP2) as both the head-tracking and the AR need the fast frame rate. But like I said do not expect high mega pixels like you will see in a good smart phone (Iwould guess over 1MP but lower than 3MP)

Message 10 of 14 (18 Views)
Reply
0 Likes