Gojet-64 wrote:I'm still not sure why some people hate Firefox 4 and later?
If it's the new Firefox button you don't like, there's this thing call "options"
I have stated a few times in this thread why I was not fond of 4.0+ versions, but in a nutshell what I found most annoying was that they changed/tweaked things without giving the users a choice to use what FF had before. Many of us have used FF for years before they did all these changes, and thus we were used to a LOT of things and we were quite fond of the behavior of the older versions of FF.
For example, FF 4+ now has "Open in new tab" for the right click context menu above "Open in new window." Pre 4.0 Open in new tab was below Open in new window, and is what I have been used to for years with FF. I had to install an addition add-on to fix this, and it doesn't work for all instances (like in the bookmarks menu). may not seem like a big deal, but it's hard to undo several years of having Open in new tab below open in new window.
Another 4.0+ change was the removal of the status bar. In its place you can enable the "Add-ons bar" which on the surface looks the same. However the URL tooltip (for when you are loading a page or hover over a link) is not integrated into the add-on bar, instead it hangs out above the add-ons bar, which is annoying and unnecessary. I had to install an additional add-on to get my old status bar back and so I could integrate the URL tooltip back into the status bar (along with the green loading bar).
Another change which they gave us no options for, was when opening new tabs. In pre 4.0 when you opened a new tab it sticks that tab at the end of your tab list. Well in the new FF it sticks that tab right next to the tab you opened it from. Honestly I don't really mind this new feature, but I would have found it less annoying if I had the choice to make the tabs behave like they did in the older FF. But there is currently no option to change it back.
Another change that I still do not like is the new add-ons "page" from within FF. In the old version of FF when you wanted to access your add-ons it simply opened a pop-up window that quickly showed you the list of add-ons which was easy and convenient, now it is done through a tab and as a full page, rather than condensed into a smaller pop-up window box.
Another annoyance (but fixable) is that when I upgraded I had to spend a decent amount of time re-arranging my home/stop/refresh/etc buttons to get them back to where I was used to, not to mention by default the tabs are located on top, which I have no idea why anybody would want that.
And some other stuff...
-New versions of FF no longer have the 'new tab' button on the end of the last tab. No option to restore it.
- When closing a lot of tabs you have to manually click the > arrow button to move all the tabs over. Pre 4.0 it was all automatic. You close a tab, the others moved over instantly.
- The stop/refresh buttons are now integrated as a single button. No option to bring back them as separate buttons.
- Pre FF 4.0 when you wanted to check an image for size, resolution, etc you could quickly click the "Properties" button in the right click context menu, which brought up a simple pop-up window with the basic information. In 4.0+ they changed the wording "Properties" to "View Image Info" and this brings up a multi-tabbed window showing various different options like permissions, security, general and
media. It still shows the basic properties, but now it is convoluted with extra stuff I do not care about.
- No more automatic session restore in 4.0. In FF 3.5 when you exited the browser you got a "Save and Quit" option, which automatically restored the tabs when you started the browser again. Now each session is saved automatically and you have to manually restore it when opening the browser by going to History. It also behaves in a way that the tabs don't actually load when you restore them, but they load when you click on them (reload all tabs fixes this, but is a unnecessary extra step). I am getting used to this feature, but it would have been nice if they gave us the option to use what we were used to in pre 4.0 versions. Just because some people found the automatic session restore inconvenient doesn't mean we all did.
- When I open a new tab instead of getting a blank window as in pre 4.0, I now get a window with a bunch of suggestion boxes based on my web history. This may not seem like a bad thing but it slows me down, in FF 3.5 I could open a new tab, hit home and instantly be at google.com (my homepage). Now when I open a new tab and hit the home button, it takes a few extra seconds to bring up my home page, likely because the new tab is loading my history info to give me suggestions, and this causes a slight performance delay. It's not much mind you, but enough that I find it annoying. I never use the suggestion box things, so why am I forced to have it on my new tab? I never asked for that.
- Add-ons. Not all pre 4.0 add-ons are compatible with the new versions of FF, mainly because the creators are no longer active. Some people cannot live without certain add-ons, whatever they may be, so for them upgrading means a serious loss of function.
There is more that I cannot think of ATM. These may not seem like a big deal, but when I get things working the way I like, I have no need to change it. And I find it annoying that so many things were changed, tweaked, or removed, things I was fond of and had been using for years. Perhaps people such as yourself quickly adapt or simply don't care about the small details or changes in function, but I certainly do. When something works fine for me, I see no reason to change it unless there is a much more efficient, easier and convenient method. Sadly most of the new tweaks to 4.0+ are downgrades or flat out removal of previous features. There is a few positives, but I would still go back in a heartbeat if I could get all the base code fixes, security fixes etc that took care of problems I was having in the older version of FF.
Hope that helps you understand why I personally was hesitant to upgrade. I'm sure the others have similar stories as well. Too many unnecessary changes and/or lack of options to bring back things the way we liked in in earlier versions. There is a big difference between changing for the better, and changing just for the sake of changing things. Most of what they did was for the latter reason, probably because they felt the need to compete/copy with Chrome/IE.
leukoplast wrote:
Gojet-64 wrote:I'm still not sure why some people hate Firefox 4 and later?
If it's the new Firefox button you don't like, there's this thing call "options"
And some other stuff...
- The stop/refresh buttons are now integrated as a single button. No option to bring back them as separate buttons.
- Pre FF 4.0 when you wanted to check an image for size, resolution, etc you could quickly click the "Properties" button in the right click context menu, which brought up a simple pop-up window with the basic information. In 4.0+ they changed the wording "Properties" to "View Image Info" and this brings up a multi-tabbed window showing various different options like permissions, security, general and
media. It still shows the basic properties, but now it is convoluted with extra stuff I do not care about.
- No more automatic session restore in 4.0. In FF 3.5 when you exited the browser you got a "Save and Quit" option, which automatically restored the tabs when you started the browser again. Now each session is saved automatically and you have to manually restore it when opening the browser by going to History. It also behaves in a way that the tabs don't actually load when you restore them, but they load when you click on them (reload all tabs fixes this, but is a unnecessary extra step). I am getting used to this feature, but it would have been nice if they gave us the option to use what we were used to in pre 4.0 versions. Just because some people found the automatic session restore inconvenient doesn't mean we all did.
Honesly. If you didn't notices you can customize your Toolbar.
And...I think you didn't use any Tips from Firefox IF you didn't enjoy it http://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/learn-basics-g
leukoplast wrote:probably because they felt the need to compete/copy with Chrome/IE.
Ha, I'd be delusional if I didn't agree with this. Totally true. Chrome, mostly, probably the biggest threat to Mozilla's marketshare.
Leuko, why not get involved in FF's development process? It's a community project still, meaning the users have a strong voice unlike IE, Opera, etc.
I don't really care for UI, seeing as that I'm a Linux user, as long as I have my reliable keyboard commands, and I'm able to remap them, I'm happy.
leukoplast wrote:
Gojet-64 wrote:I'm still not sure why some people hate Firefox 4 and later?
If it's the new Firefox button you don't like, there's this thing call "options"
I have stated a few times in this thread why I was not fond of 4.0+ versions, but in a nutshell what I found most annoying was that they changed/tweaked things without giving the users a choice to use what FF had before. Many of us have used FF for years before they did all these changes, and thus we were used to a LOT of things and we were quite fond of the behavior of the older versions of FF.
For example, FF 4+ now has "Open in new tab" for the right click context menu above "Open in new window." Pre 4.0 Open in new tab was below Open in new window, and is what I have been used to for years with FF. I had to install an addition add-on to fix this, and it doesn't work for all instances (like in the bookmarks menu). may not seem like a big deal, but it's hard to undo several years of having Open in new tab below open in new window. If you have a middle click (click the scrollwheel) you can use that to quickly open links as a separate tab.
Another 4.0+ change was the removal of the status bar. In its place you can enable the "Add-ons bar" which on the surface looks the same. However the URL tooltip (for when you are loading a page or hover over a link) is not integrated into the add-on bar, instead it hangs out above the add-ons bar, which is annoying and unnecessary. I had to install an additional add-on to get my old status bar back and so I could integrate the URL tooltip back into the status bar (along with the green loading bar).
Another change which they gave us no options for, was when opening new tabs. In pre 4.0 when you opened a new tab it sticks that tab at the end of your tab list. Well in the new FF it sticks that tab right next to the tab you opened it from. Honestly I don't really mind this new feature, but I would have found it less annoying if I had the choice to make the tabs behave like they did in the older FF. But there is currently no option to change it back. You can move tabs
Another change that I still do not like is the new add-ons "page" from within FF. In the old version of FF when you wanted to access your add-ons it simply opened a pop-up window that quickly showed you the list of add-ons which was easy and convenient, now it is done through a tab and as a full page, rather than condensed into a smaller pop-up window box. Is that really a problem?
Another annoyance (but fixable) is that when I upgraded I had to spend a decent amount of time re-arranging my home/stop/refresh/etc buttons to get them back to where I was used to, not to mention by default the tabs are located on top, which I have no idea why anybody would want that.
And some other stuff...
-New versions of FF no longer have the 'new tab' button on the end of the last tab. Yes it does
- When closing a lot of tabs you have to manually click the > arrow button to move all the tabs over. Pre 4.0 it was all automatic. You close a tab, the others moved over instantly. Not sure what you mean by that
- The stop/refresh buttons are now integrated as a single button. No option to bring back them as separate buttons. They don't need to be separate buttons. You have to stop loading if you want to refresh.
- Pre FF 4.0 when you wanted to check an image for size, resolution, etc you could quickly click the "Properties" button in the right click context menu, which brought up a simple pop-up window with the basic information. In 4.0+ they changed the wording "Properties" to "View Image Info" and this brings up a multi-tabbed window showing various different options like permissions, security, general and media. It still shows the basic properties, but now it is convoluted with extra stuff I do not care about. Then just don't view the extra information.
- No more automatic session restore in 4.0. In FF 3.5 when you exited the browser you got a "Save and Quit" option, which automatically restored the tabs when you started the browser again. Now each session is saved automatically and you have to manually restore it when opening the browser by going to History. It also behaves in a way that the tabs don't actually load when you restore them, but they load when you click on them (reload all tabs fixes this, but is a unnecessary extra step). I am getting used to this feature, but it would have been nice if they gave us the option to use what we were used to in pre 4.0 versions. Just because some people found the automatic session restore inconvenient doesn't mean we all did. Firefox homepage has a "Restore Previous Session" button. You can use the Google bar up top as a pseudo Google Home Page
- When I open a new tab instead of getting a blank window as in pre 4.0, I now get a window with a bunch of suggestion boxes based on my web history. This may not seem like a bad thing but it slows me down, in FF 3.5 I could open a new tab, hit home and instantly be at google.com (my homepage). Now when I open a new tab and hit the home button, it takes a few extra seconds to bring up my home page, likely because the new tab is loading my history info to give me suggestions, and this causes a slight performance delay. It's not much mind you, but enough that I find it annoying. I never use the suggestion box things, so why am I forced to have it on my new tab? I never asked for that. It is blank
- Add-ons. Not all pre 4.0 add-ons are compatible with the new versions of FF, mainly because the creators are no longer active. Some people cannot live without certain add-ons, whatever they may be, so for them upgrading means a serious loss of function.
There is more that I cannot think of ATM. These may not seem like a big deal, but when I get things working the way I like, I have no need to change it. And I find it annoying that so many things were changed, tweaked, or removed, things I was fond of and had been using for years. Perhaps people such as yourself quickly adapt or simply don't care about the small details or changes in function, but I certainly do. When something works fine for me, I see no reason to change it unless there is a much more efficient, easier and convenient method. Sadly most of the new tweaks to 4.0+ are downgrades or flat out removal of previous features. There is a few positives, but I would still go back in a heartbeat if I could get all the base code fixes, security fixes etc that took care of problems I was having in the older version of FF.
Hope that helps you understand why I personally was hesitant to upgrade. I'm sure the others have similar stories as well. Too many unnecessary changes and/or lack of options to bring back things the way we liked in in earlier versions. There is a big difference between changing for the better, and changing just for the sake of changing things. Most of what they did was for the latter reason, probably because they felt the need to compete/copy with Chrome/IE.
It seems the primary complaint is simply the altered UI.
People seem to really hate trying to learn a new UI. Example: Forum migrations.
Gojet-64 wrote:
If you have a middle click (click the scrollwheel) you can use that to quickly open links as a separate tab.
I don't like doing that nor am I used to doing that, I prefer right clicking and opening in new tab. The new FF changed this, and I don't like it, regardless of what other options are available. Being able to do it some other way is beside the point.
Gojet-64 wrote:
You can move tabs
You missed what I was trying to say entirely. The issue was not with being able to move tabs, but rather where the new tabs opened up at when you initiate a new tab from within a tab (ie you are at a website and open a new tab from a link). Old version of FF the new tab was thrust to the end of your running tab list, now it opens up next to the tab that you opened it from.
Gojet-64 wrote:
Is that really a problem?
Yes it most certainly is, cause every time I open my add-ons page I am annoyed by it's new appearance and functionality.
Gojet-64 wrote:
-New versions of FF no longer have the 'new tab' button on the end of the last tab. Yes it does
Not sure what version or options you may have enabled (that I cannot seem to find), but in my version, there is no new tab option at the end of my last tab.
FF version 13.0.1
FF version 3.5.2
Gojet-64 wrote:- When closing a lot of tabs you have to manually click the > arrow button to move all the tabs over. Pre 4.0 it was all automatic. You close a tab, the others moved over instantly. Not sure what you mean by that
This is what I mean
See that large gap highlighted in red? See how many tabs I have opened? Well, when I close tabs this gap remains until i click that little arrow that is highlighted in red. Only then will the tabs be moved to the end of the tab list. In the older version of FF, when you closed a tab the others would automatically move over to take up the now unused space.
Gojet-64 wrote- The stop/refresh buttons are now integrated as a single button. No option to bring back them as separate buttons. They don't need to be separate buttons. You have to stop loading if you want to refresh.
Sure they do, too many websites these days have stuff running in the background constantly loading, I like being able to stop that loading in a single click. Now if I want to stop the background loading I need to refresh the page then quickly hit stop.
Plus maybe I just like having separate stop/refresh buttons, which I cannot do with the new version.
Gojet-64 wrote:
Then just don't view the extra information.
That is beside the point, if there is no reason to have all that extra stuff than I shouldn't have to endure it. It wasn't there in the older versions, therefore I should have the option to change it in the new versions. The reasoning you use is along the same lines as "if you don't like the car color, then just don't look at it". Peachy, but it doesn't fix the problem, just ignores it. Unacceptable.
Gojet-64 wrote:- No more automatic session restore in 4.0. In FF 3.5 when you exited the browser you got a "Save and Quit" option, which automatically restored the tabs when you started the browser again. Now each session is saved automatically and you have to manually restore it when opening the browser by going to History. It also behaves in a way that the tabs don't actually load when you restore them, but they load when you click on them (reload all tabs fixes this, but is a unnecessary extra step). I am getting used to this feature, but it would have been nice if they gave us the option to use what we were used to in pre 4.0 versions. Just because some people found the automatic session restore inconvenient doesn't mean we all did. Firefox homepage has a "Restore Previous Session" button. You can use the Google bar up top as a pseudo Google Home Page
Again you fail to comprehend my post. I KNOW there is a restore previous session. Please read my post again, and another 20 times if necessary. After such time if want to reply, then read again 40 more times. if you think you understand then read again a few dozen more times. At which time feel free to reply only if you have re-read it no less than 200 times and spent a few hours processing the information.
Also I do not want to use the Google search bar, I LIKE what I had before... what about this do you not understand?
Gojet-64 wrote:
- When I open a new tab instead of getting a blank window as in pre 4.0, I now get a window with a bunch of suggestion boxes based on my web history. This may not seem like a bad thing but it slows me down, in FF 3.5 I could open a new tab, hit home and instantly be at google.com (my homepage). Now when I open a new tab and hit the home button, it takes a few extra seconds to bring up my home page, likely because the new tab is loading my history info to give me suggestions, and this causes a slight performance delay. It's not much mind you, but enough that I find it annoying. I never use the suggestion box things, so why am I forced to have it on my new tab? I never asked for that. It is blank
Really it's blank? Then what is all this crap on my blank tab screen? See all those boxes with recently accessed websites? What do you call those? Certainly is NOT blank.
Gojet-64 wrote:People seem to really hate trying to learn a new UI. Example: Forum migrations.
I love the new forum migration, it was sorely needed. So if you are trying to imply that I dismiss the new FF versions in the same way as the new forum, you are solely mistaken. I know quality and I recognize when things change for unnecessary reasons. This forum changed for entirely good reasons, FF however did not.
I'm sorry about my misinterpretation of one of your posts.
leukoplast wrote:
Gojet-64 wrote:- No more automatic session restore in 4.0. In FF 3.5 when you exited the browser you got a "Save and Quit" option, which automatically restored the tabs when you started the browser again. Now each session is saved automatically and you have to manually restore it when opening the browser by going to History. It also behaves in a way that the tabs don't actually load when you restore them, but they load when you click on them (reload all tabs fixes this, but is a unnecessary extra step). I am getting used to this feature, but it would have been nice if they gave us the option to use what we were used to in pre 4.0 versions. Just because some people found the automatic session restore inconvenient doesn't mean we all did. Firefox homepage has a "Restore Previous Session" button. You can use the Google bar up top as a pseudo Google Home Page
Again you fail to comprehend my post. I KNOW there is a restore previous session. Please read my post again, and another 20 times if necessary. After such time if want to reply, then read again 40 more times. if you think you understand then read again a few dozen more times. At which time feel free to reply only if you have re-read it no less than 200 times and spent a few hours processing the information.
Also I do not want to use the Google search bar, I LIKE what I had before... what about this do you not understand?
By that, I thought you were referring to the "Recently closed tabs" or "Recently closed windows" buttons. My fault.
Also, you can hit "Enter" on the Google bar while it's blank, and that will take you to Google.
The "new tab" button and blank new tabs are there for me. I'm not sure why your Firefox is different.
Still the same with the menu bar, tabs on top, etc.
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