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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Why Kratos needs to be nerfed or banned (from major 1v1 tournaments).

Feb 16, 2013

You lost a match against the computer and therefore want this character banned? So much lol.

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Gaming Beast
Registered: 11/22/2012
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Re: Why Kratos needs to be nerfed or banned (from major 1v1 tournaments).

Feb 16, 2013

Xx_shawna_xX wrote:

He needs to be nerfed. If you don't agree then don't comment. You've already said more than you needed to in order to get that across. Applying to the one above you, as well.


Huh... well this seems reasonable. Glad we're having an adult conversation here.





Xx_shawna_xX wrote:

Didn't say I was, but I have a resource that helps me better understand the game more than you can, from a technical standpoint.

 

You didn't prove anyone wrong, like you're so set on doing. You just further showed that you're wasting time posting what you think isn't fair and unfair, yet you don't seem to know a thing about priority or anything else.

 

You aren't helping anything, so you know.

 

And again, no one's being proven wrong. The proof is in the video in the original post and if you'd like, I'd post another on a different stage going frame by fram so you can see for yourself how unbalanced Kratos is.


Speaking of that video and the points you make on it (Watched to the end of the 1st match):


-You seem to not know where your block button is. L1 is incredibly useful against Kratos as it blocks his attacks and allows you to punish with your squarex3, which by the way appears to be the fastest move in the game (If Big Daddy does Air forward triangle on shield, it hits Big Daddy after blockstun from air side triangle but before super armor from forward square. No other move in the game does this. Even Giga punch trades. Normally you either grab before forward square hits you or keep blocking. Pressing a button means getting hit, making this tactic a good BD mixup. This straight up doesn't work on Kat. Again, it works on EVERY other character, including Kratos, meaning Kat's neutral square starts faster than Kratos').

-Grabs always beat rolls. This is because rolls are so incredibly safe in this game. Jumping however beats grabs from frame 1, as does grab breaking.

-Kratos does not win 1v1 tournaments outside of 1 occasion in over 100 now. This seems like a really low probability for a broken character. To compare, FP, Ratchet and EC tend to win a majority of all tournaments, including almost all of the ones I know of this month (Minus the one I won today! WOOHOO! Granted a reddit tournament, but still...).

-Your video states it's agreed on that he should be banned in 1v1 when you are literally the only person I have ever heard suggest this idea.

-You use the fact that you picked up Kratos for 15 min and found an AP burst as an arguement in the OP. I can say the same for Kat, except that in that time I had found multiple and grab combos that led to bursts and kill confirms. I was not the only one to make these discoveries.

-You mention being unable to turn around to punish after his up square, but that's something that's true of a lot of characters. First off you were in blockstun. Then you had to drop your guard, which takes time. Then you have to turn around. Then you have to wait for a move to start. Just so you know, you couldn't even beat Raiden's grab in that time. I guess hitting people from behind on shield has been taken down from "A good tactic that every character can and should take advantage of to be safer" to "Kratos broken as hell". Makes sense.

-Your second freeze screen: Let me explain general fighting game mechanics. Disjoincted attacks, such as projectiles, always beat non-disjoincted attacks (Unless they have super armor) unless the non-disjoinct is really close up. Let's use the video as an example to better explain this. In the freeze frame, you can clearly see that Kat's hitbox is not touching Kratos' hurtbox. Since you whiffed an attack, it makes sense that he does not get hit. HOWEVER, Kratos' disjoincted attack hits you. Since Kratos' hurtbox is not inside the lamp, his hurtbox does not touch your active hitbox. His hitbox from the lamp however does touch your character's hurtbox, which is why you got hit. This is a pretty obvious observation in the video, and I don't see why you think this is unfair since this is literally how all fighting games are coded, or for that matter any game that involves hit and hurtboxes, which is like 90% of them.

-Look at your 4th freezeframe again. Look at when he hits your shield and when you actually react to it. The second hit of his move doesn't even hit your shield. You had all day to punish that and you waited until his move ended to try, then you complain it's broken? Maybe you should learn attack properties instead of just spouting the word over and over again.

-Also if a grab box hits you, you get grabbed. If you started a move that hits at the same time, it loses. A lot of games use this mechanic because grabs are slower than pokes and far riskier. Without this mechanic you can hit people out of grabs on reaction.

-You use a computer to illustrate your points, who is inferior to a human in any way, but then you stop to show the counter which is a result of the AI's only advantage (Frame perfect reactions) as an example of it being broken? Makes sense...

-His level 2 is about the same speed as Radec's, Good Cole's, Evil Cole's, Dante's, Spike's, and a handful of level 1s. It also has very little horizontal range and makes up for his sub-par level 1. It is also inferior to most transformation supers, especially Big Daddy's and Raiden's which can kill a player multiple times if the player is good enough. The corner level 2 setup is also not unique. EC/GC/Radec can do that off of any hard knockdown anywhere, BD can set up a first kill in the corner with his level 2. Heihachi, Dan, Emmett, Sackboy, Drake, Sly and Dan can set up inescapable level 2s in the corner. A lot of characters can also do that with their level 1s. Also I believe every character except maybe Toro, Jak and Nariko can combo into their level 2.

-Oh, also you don't seem to know why the Raiden grab was nerfed. Rather than explain it myself, let me quote one of Superbot's staff:


"As for Raiden and Drake, our hand was forced because both caused inescapable pseudo-combos online. Raiden’s RS-F, Square -> Square -> Square loop and Drake’s D+Circle -> Triangle -> B+Triangle dropped loop were literally inescapable online, with just a little bit of lag. Infinite Avoidance never kicked in because they weren’t true combos, but the resets became totally unavoidable. That’s just a bug that we had to fix.

Unfortunately these kinds of things are bound to happen once in a while. We’re 100% committed to supporting online play, so sometimes that takes precedence. But if you give us time, we’ll find some other way to retune Raiden and Drake to make up for what they lost."



Source: http://sonichurricane.com/?p=7272&cpage=1#comment-7928 Comments section of the article, January 22nd comment by Maj.

And...


"On the other hand i agree that Raiden should probably be able to combo after one of his throws, but obviously it needs to be a launcher throw and not a ground reaction throw. I’ll look into making that happen (assuming i can get approval from Omar and Paul). I already have some ideas on how to implement it, but please be patient because it takes a long time for changes to go from my screen to a published patch. There’s a lot of steps inbetween those two endpoints, so it can easily take a month or two even if everything’s streamlined. You guys saw how long it took Skullgirls to get a patch approved, right? Trust me, it takes a lot of work and a lot of testing."



Source: http://sonichurricane.com/?p=7272&cpage=1#comment-7928 Comments section of the article, January 25th. Notice Maj mentions that Fat Princess is getting out of control yet no mention of Kratos.






On a final note, I would ask you to look through Clockw0rk's post history. He has made several mentions that Kratos is not placing at all in 1v1 tournaments despite some people thinking he's OP.

The Fro never sleeps.png


 

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Gaming Beast
Registered: 11/22/2012
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Re: Why Kratos needs to be nerfed or banned (from major 1v1 tournaments).

Feb 16, 2013
^
Please read that. It took a while to type and is mostly based on the points you make in your video.

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Fender Bender
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Re: Why Kratos needs to be nerfed or banned (from major 1v1 tournaments).

Feb 16, 2013
Op wow.

I main Dante and I don't empty cancel and I beat CPU Kratos without losing 2 lives every time now. I train to play him and raiden. Before screaming nerf Kratos look at the character your using. KAT IS BROKEN. And I saw you only use kill confirms maybe you should practice on Kratos in training mode. Not trying to be mean but this coming from someone who mains dante who is in need of a huge buff
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Why Kratos needs to be nerfed or banned (from major 1v1 tournaments).

Feb 16, 2013
Lol I like how no one agrees with the OP and everyone is agreeing with Aylas.

Good show Aylas Kratos might be scary in the right hands but he is no where near OP status.
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First Son
Registered: 01/25/2013
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Re: Why Kratos needs to be nerfed or banned (from major 1v1 tournaments).

Feb 16, 2013
Kat is actually as good as kratos since she has a lot of combos. And her level 2 super is almost unescapable
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Hekseville Citizen
Registered: 12/02/2012
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Re: Why Kratos needs to be nerfed or banned (from major 1v1 tournaments).

Feb 16, 2013
How can a character be broken and need a ban but never wins? I've played a lot of fighting games. Never once was a character broken and didn't have good match ups vs everyone
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Hekseville Citizen
Registered: 11/29/2012
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Re: Why Kratos needs to be nerfed or banned (from major 1v1 tournaments).

Feb 16, 2013

LMFAO This was a great read. leave it to aylas to clean up the forum =]

Check out my channel for Combo Videos and Tournament matches!
www.youtube.com/mogilsumi
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First Son
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Re: Why Kratos needs to be nerfed or banned (from major 1v1 tournaments).

May 12, 2013
I still think he needs a nerf :b
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Why Kratos needs to be nerfed or banned (from major 1v1 tournaments).

May 12, 2013
Ah I remember this thread lol. You can literally 1 move a level 5 Kratos and still end up not losing 2 lives.

Still didn't need to be buffed.
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