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Sackboy
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Re: What's wrong with 20 characters?

Sep 29, 2012

DivinePaladin27 wrote:

Rigglie wrote:

DivinePaladin27 wrote:

Rigglie wrote:

DivinePaladin27 wrote:

Rigglie wrote:

I don't care who the heck you are. If you think two Coles over an entire genre was a good idea than you have problems. I also love it how people think they are beng mature just because they are accepting the crap that is happening.


There's a difference between thinking it's a good idea and understanding the decision.  If this is the final 20, which I highly doubt it is, does the concept of two Coles still seem odd?  Yes.  But I understand why they chose two Coles, and they made them different enough for them to both deserve a spot from a gameplay standpoint.


Honestly I think your missing the point. They could have put alot of characters in with a similar moveset like evil cole. Secondly are you agreeing to it being a bad idea? Lastly if you understand why they chose two coles can you explain to me?


I completely understand the point.  I don't understand why you insult anybody that doesn't agree with your opinion on two Coles.  I'm not sold on it being a bad idea yet, only because they're still unique characters, but if there's only 20, I can definitely say that 2 Coles was an odd decision in the current known situation.  Notice the phrasing there: For all we know, the Coles may be in the same "slot" on the character select screen in the final product, and they may have the same story mode.  They'd be a Sheik/Zelda type thing (minus the ability to switch), in a way.  Or they could be different slots and have different stories.  Who knows at this point; right now, it's an odd decision IMO, but we don't know the full story yet.  

 

I understand why they chose to do so, because making a single Cole doesn't do the character justice in many ways, and because the character itself has such an opportunity for creativity that it's likely that both were incredibly fun to create.  Alternatively, maybe they didn't choose two Coles; Sony's got a say in who gets picked, too.  If we knew the full story, I'm sure my opinion would be different, be that good or bad for them.  However, we don't, so I can only go with a logical perspective to what they did choose, and look at the upside of what they did do.


Yea, becauseYea, because there being two Coles on the homepage totally supports the idea of cole taking up one slot. Also lets not forget about him having a seperate bio. You are really not understanding the point, Cole could have easly been one character like zelda which is one part where I think you are right. Also because you understand something dosen't mean its acceptable. If we look on the upside on everything they do than we would just be mindless drones that tae everything they do lying down.

Yes, because once something is shown somewhere it definitely means that nothing else can be true.  You don't seem to understand my point.  You're saying that "Cole could've been one character" when he very well still could be in the final product.  We simply don't know if they're keeping him separate for now for the sake of making it easier to select him in the convention builds.

 

Also, I never said this was acceptable.  I said it was understandable because you flat-out insulted people that accepted the idea of two Coles.  Is it necessarily acceptable?  Not in this context, probably.  Does that mean I can accept it?  Yeah, I can accept it, because I'm not going to avoid a game because of one character.  I'm buying it for the gameplay that kept me entertained for hours on end with just five characters, and I can't imagine how long I'll last with 20.  


Nope, I flat out insulted people who think it was a good idea which I do not take back at all. Your saying tha Cole is not acceptable but yet at the same time you say it is. If you are saying that Cole is unaceptable then why are you defending him? Lastly They confirmed that there are currerntly 20 characters revealed right? There are only 20 characters known including Cole heck he even as his own trailer.

 

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: What's wrong with 20 characters?

Sep 29, 2012

DivinePaladin27 wrote:

SniperWolf323 wrote:
blind rage hahaha, justify myself? mhmm did you pass high school? And so what captian falcon and ganondorf had similar moves, but alot are different, does that make him a different character? no he's still a clone. And you have NO IDEA why i think this game sucks. 

Judging by your grammar and spelling, you shouldn't be asking me that question.  Here's the issue with your clone comparison: You used the least clone-like characters, and even then they're still much more similar than the Coles are.  Ganondorf is literally just slower and has maybe two different moves.  Throw in Falco/Fox/Wolf, who are pretty much only different in terms of speed, the two Links, who are literally the same character except a tiny change in speed, etc., and you've got real clones.  Good and Evil Cole have maybe 1/3 of their moves connected, but most of the Smash Clones actually are called that for a reason.  When a character has a majority of different moves, it's not a clone.


SniperWolf323 wrote:

JJWheatley wrote:
Two things here:

1. People who are claiming 20 characters is a low amount, use your head. It's not a good roster in my opinion but 20 is a high number for the first in what I think will be a series.

2. Anyone who has said "I'll take it" "Doing it for the fans" "They're trying to please us" Wake up. This a company making a game for business purposes and business purposes only. This isn't hard to notice from their character choices (So far) Raiden instead of Big Boss? Wonder why.. Dante as the capcom rep? Shocking... But the most insulting to me has to be Heihachi's outfit. I love his gameplay but why is he in his TTT2 get up? Fan's of the series will realise that it isn't canon and by using the very first model, I think correct me if wrong, isn't a smart move. The roster isn't good at the moment it's average but I don't start hating on the devs or shoving myself so far up their crevasses I can no longer touch the ground. Everyone needs to calm down and wait for official confirmation.

1) 20 is a LOW COUNT, no matter what you think, it's descustingly low concidering all the characters choices they HAVE?!?!

 

2) didnt superbot state that they  were making this games for the fans and to represent playstations history?

But they slap us in the face with this character roster?

 


1. Name a Smash game that added 20 characters in one swing.

2. They said it'd represent PlayStation's past, present, and future.  It does that all.  Not fully, but right now it does that all.


1. That doesn't really mean anything because every Smash game has an almost totally different gameplay and every character is re-done. Ok it's not the same thing obviously, but they didn't simply copy & paste Mario from Melee to Brawl. If it was so, even Roy, Mewtwo and all the others scrapped off could've make it. 

2. Not fully and not in a good way, I'd say. A game which doesn't have Spyro, Crash and Lara Croft DOESN'T represent Sony's past. Sir Dan, Parappa and Spike are good obviously but I don't believe you first think of them hearing "Sony's past", you can't deny that.

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First Son
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Re: What's wrong with 20 characters?

Sep 29, 2012

The fact that it is 20 is not a problem. As with everything, quality should always come before quantity. 20 well designed characters are better than 15 good ones + 15 medicore ones. However, people are angry about the fact that certain characters were chosen over others. It is ridiculous to say that a second Cole, Nariko and Big Daddy deserve to be in this game over Cloud, Snake and Crash. It actually hurts SuperBot to play games with us, as the latter three will pick up extra sales/pre-orders, the former three will not. The fact that SuperBot is not helping matters by not saying anything is making it worse. Announcing that they're not in it will put some people to rest.

 

Let me remind you all: Superbot and Sony are out to make money. The developers should be catering to our will, because it is ultimately us who put the bread on their table, not the other way around. If we are unsatisfied with a product, then it is our right to say so, and if they don't make the changes needed, then that's simply less money for them. Accepting that new characters should be DLC, and therefore be willingly happy to pay extra money for something they deserve to begin with is disgraceful and turns capitalism on its head.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: What's wrong with 20 characters?

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Sep 29, 2012

Rigglie wrote:
Nope, I flat out insulted people who think it was a good idea which I do not take back at all. Your saying tha Cole is not acceptable but yet at the same time you say it is. If you are saying that Cole is unaceptable then why are you defending him? Lastly They confirmed that there are currerntly 20 characters revealed right? There are only 20 characters known including Cole heck he even as his own trailer.

I said that he's not necessarily acceptable in the context that we currently are speaking of, but that I accept that it's not going to change.  I'm trying to make use of the meanings of the words "acceptable" and "accept," where one means that it is satisfactory, and the other means that I am alright with it; it may not be a satisfactory roster, but I am okay with it because I don't care about who's in the roster when the gameplay is as entertaining as it is.  I'm defending the decision to spefically add two Coles based on the fact that we don't know the whole story of how he is even in this game yet, let alone why.  Once that is found out, my opinion could very well change instantly.  I'm not really sure what you're saying with your second statement, so if you could, please elaborate/reword it.


RexLozuresky wrote:
1. That doesn't really mean anything because every Smash game has an almost totally different gameplay and every character is re-done. Ok it's not the same thing obviously, but they didn't simply copy & paste Mario from Melee to Brawl. If it was so, even Roy, Mewtwo and all the others scrapped off could've make it. 

2. Not fully and not in a good way, I'd say. A game which doesn't have Spyro, Crash and Lara Croft DOESN'T represent Sony's past. Sir Dan, Parappa and Spike are good obviously but I don't believe you first think of them hearing "Sony's past", you can't deny that.


I may not agree with you, but thankfully, as always, you're logical.  You're the only person to have ever brought up that point with Smash (which surprises me, because you'd think it'd've come up sooner with all the comparisons that are made between the two).  However, if I may throw this out there, Melee added 14 characters in two years.  PSAS took two years to create 20 total.  Saying that the actual amount (20 in two years) is bad is something that that makes no sense, and something I'd hold you above based on our previous clashes.  Saying the specific choosing of people is bad is something I could see from you.

Also, for number 2, I meant it specifically the way I said it.  Take that as you wish.

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Re: What's wrong with 20 characters?

Sep 29, 2012

DivinePaladin27 wrote:

Rigglie wrote:
Nope, I flat out insulted people who think it was a good idea which I do not take back at all. Your saying tha Cole is not acceptable but yet at the same time you say it is. If you are saying that Cole is unaceptable then why are you defending him? Lastly They confirmed that there are currerntly 20 characters revealed right? There are only 20 characters known including Cole heck he even as his own trailer.

I said that he's not necessarily acceptable in the context that we currently are speaking of, but that I accept that it's not going to change.  I'm trying to make use of the meanings of the words "acceptable" and "accept," where one means that it is satisfactory, and the other means that I am alright with it; it may not be a satisfactory roster, but I am okay with it because I don't care about who's in the roster when the gameplay is as entertaining as it is.  I'm defending the decision to spefically add two Coles based on the fact that we don't know the whole story of how he is even in this game yet, let alone why.  Once that is found out, my opinion could very well change instantly.  I'm not really sure what you're saying with your second statement, so if you could, please elaborate/reword it.


RexLozuresky wrote:
1. That doesn't really mean anything because every Smash game has an almost totally different gameplay and every character is re-done. Ok it's not the same thing obviously, but they didn't simply copy & paste Mario from Melee to Brawl. If it was so, even Roy, Mewtwo and all the others scrapped off could've make it. 

2. Not fully and not in a good way, I'd say. A game which doesn't have Spyro, Crash and Lara Croft DOESN'T represent Sony's past. Sir Dan, Parappa and Spike are good obviously but I don't believe you first think of them hearing "Sony's past", you can't deny that.


I may not agree with you, but thankfully, as always, you're logical.  You're the only person to have ever brought up that point with Smash (which surprises me, because you'd think it'd've come up sooner with all the comparisons that are made between the two).  However, if I may throw this out there, Melee added 14 characters in two years.  PSAS took two years to create 20 total.  Saying that the actual amount (20 in two years) is bad is something that that makes no sense, and something I'd hold you above based on our previous clashes.  Saying the specific choosing of people is bad is something I could see from you.

Also, for number 2, I meant it specifically the way I said it.  Take that as you wish.


20 is not a bad number. It's not good either, but it's acceptable. The fact is that out of the 20, some of them are simply wrong or less important than others that aren't in (for now, obviously, I'm talking like there aren't more). I mean... Nariko over Crash? A second Cole over Spyro? Those characters are just there for numbers, that's obvious. Even Brawl had +1, I'm not saying the opposite, but those "+1s" didn't take the place of an important character. That's the point. Characters like Big Daddy or Fat Princess should be something to be add at the roster, not part of the actual roster. 

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: What's wrong with 20 characters?

Sep 29, 2012
That's the response I expected, and the one I can understand. Too many people are taking the roster at face value of a number, when the real complaint SHOULD be, if anything, exactly what you said.

However, for the sake of being safer with the characters you named, I'd replace "Crash" with Wander, and "Spyro" with another first party/easy-to-get character so that nobody could argue that maybe they weren't able to get the third party characters that you named. That's really only for argument's sake, though.
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Fender Bender
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Re: What's wrong with 20 characters?

Sep 29, 2012
^well I look at Nariko getting in over Crash a sigh that Actvision didnt give them the rights
IT'S MY WAY OR . . . HELL IT'S MY WAY
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: What's wrong with 20 characters?

Sep 29, 2012

Yeah those are the characters I like the most so I always talk about them, but there are plenty of characters more deserving to be in this game. Plenty. And that's an awful thing. Nobody thinks that about Smash, you know. Ok there are 2/3 characters that should be in Smash, but no characters that MUST be in and aren't. 

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Sackboy
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Re: What's wrong with 20 characters?

Sep 29, 2012

DivinePaladin27 wrote:
That's the response I expected, and the one I can understand. Too many people are taking the roster at face value of a number, when the real complaint SHOULD be, if anything, exactly what you said.

However, for the sake of being safer with the characters you named, I'd replace "Crash" with Wander, and "Spyro" with another first party/easy-to-get character so that nobody could argue that maybe they weren't able to get the third party characters that you named. That's really only for argument's sake, though.

Ignore my second statement please. I think I misunderstood you, I thought you wanted a bigger roster bu you were just settling for what SB gave you. If you don't care about the characters at all tan I wasn't talking about you. Also I think that the roster shouldn't be satisfactory because of how much potential this game has. I would hate to see such a wonderful looking game with such pontential to have a satisfactory roster.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: What's wrong with 20 characters?

Sep 29, 2012

RexLozuresky wrote:

Yeah those are the characters I like the most so I always talk about them, but there are plenty of characters more deserving to be in this game. Plenty. And that's an awful thing. Nobody thinks that about Smash, you know. Ok there are 2/3 characters that should be in Smash, but no characters that MUST be in and aren't. 


In SB's defense, the majority of the characters that are currently missing are third party.  I can think of nine characters that are truly missing, and six of them aren't easy to obtain.  (Crash, Spyro, Lara, Snake, Cloud, and maybe Sora for third party, and Wander/Ico, Kat, and maybe Resistance rep for first.)  That's where PSAS differs from Smash, because Sony built success upon characters that may be hard to obtain right now (especially with companies like Activision that for all we know may only agree on a DLC deal).  I'm not saying they are for sure (that goes for both my previous statement and the Activision statement), but it's possible.

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