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Splicer
Registered: 12/26/2012
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Re: Tier List Discussion

Jan 16, 2013

In my slight experiences with Heihachi I've been able to handedly beat most people, but I'd say for several reasons he's better than Jak and is arguably better than Nariko and Sir Daniel. Big Daddy and Heihachi is a good match-up though :smileytongue:

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Hekseville Citizen
Registered: 01/05/2013
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Re: Tier List Discussion

[ Edited ]
Jan 16, 2013

Nariko is VERY underrated, she is godlike in small stages, I mean dat lvl3 and the range

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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 11/28/2012
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Re: Tier List Discussion

Jan 16, 2013

@fromundaman - I need to test some things and get back to you, salient points, but I think a couple things are wrong (or my understanding of them is wrong) either way I need to test before I respond.

 

 

 

@everyone who is a big fan of Heihachi.

 

He is super fun, and great and cool and is one of my favorite characters.  By far.  He however has some relatively insurmountable problems.

 

1) His LVL1 super is objectively bad, and has only an incredibly circumstancial confirm (which should never work on an opponent who knows that its Heihachi's only real confirm).  He does have setups, but setups usually have OS escapes in this game due to the way defense works.  This combined with the next point are his single most pronounced issues.

 

2) His LVL2 super is also bad.   Because it is AI controlled and the AI has a number of flaws it is not only possible, but probable that Heihachi will not get any kills with it on a number of stages.  I don't want to go into too much detail about how to "bug out" the AI, but in short as you run into people who are aware you will find that this super averages less than 2 kills over multiple games.  Also his level 3 is a screen clearer, which is similarly bad.

 

Finally he just doesn't have movement options, or the ability to control space outside of his immediate viscinity.  Between all of these issues I think he has a hard time dealing with the way the game is played at high level.  He also has a hard time doing much to people who stay in the air (which is hugely critical right now).

 

He is one of the better enforcers, and is great at disrupting the team and opponents, he also has some of the better AP build for very simple and short combos.  But his inability to secure a kill in a timed 2v2 and his struggles against strong zoning really hold him back.

 

 

Come watch competitive and casual PSASBR play:
http://twitch.tv/hotboxgaming
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First Son
Registered: 01/16/2013
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Re: Tier List Discussion

[ Edited ]
Jan 16, 2013

You summed up my thoughts on heihachi perfectly. He was my main and I got to about lv 600 as him, but the frustration level was way to high due to being zoned out and my inability to land any confirms, due to everyone knowing what his are and how easy they are to avoid by simply blocking or jumping all the time.

 

The biggest problem was being zoned out by all the range in this game, or by characters that simply block off my ability to travel on the ground at all ( spikes bananas, ractchet electric connector thing, sackboy lightning tile thing). And dont get me started on his super lv 2 getting fully dodged always.

 

(pardon my lack of  knowledge of the actual names of abilities)

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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 11/28/2012
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Re: Tier List Discussion

Jan 16, 2013

@fromundaman

 

I spent a bit of time both testing with B.daddy and playing with him.  First up, I was wrong about Sly/Kratos, you are right that those moves do not have super armor.  However, they can beat Big Daddy's super armor due to their AP value.

 

I feel like the super armor on his square moves is mostly low value at this point, not due to the fact that other moves have better super armor, but because his range on them is negligable - and his movement ability doesn't really help there.  If you feel you're a good example of how B.Dad should be played I would be happy to either 2v2 with or against you.  So far, I still feel like big daddy is below average, both from what I have seen others do, and what I have been able to make that boat of a character do himself.  But I am always looking for an opportunity to be proven wrong.

 

Nariko is in a similar boat, I have heard people say she is underrated, but I have yet to see a compelling argument to that extent and would love an opportunity to see what she can do.  

 

And just to re-state, that tier is the "just below average" tier for both (Biggy D and Shetos, er, Nariko).

 

 

Come watch competitive and casual PSASBR play:
http://twitch.tv/hotboxgaming
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Wastelander
Registered: 11/22/2012
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Re: Tier List Discussion

Jan 16, 2013

lxhizy wrote:

If he's that good then i'm yet to see a real good heihachi player. But yes, I agree, he is better than Jak, Jak is just a crappy character...

and GOD I hate sly cooper, he has no bad match-ups at all


Add my 2v2 partner, zToriko. He'll teach you a lesson about Heihachi.

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Gaming Beast
Registered: 11/22/2012
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Re: Tier List Discussion

[ Edited ]
Jan 16, 2013

godlessmode wrote:

@fromundaman

 

I spent a bit of time both testing with B.daddy and playing with him.  First up, I was wrong about Sly/Kratos, you are right that those moves do not have super armor.  However, they can beat Big Daddy's super armor due to their AP value.

 

I feel like the super armor on his square moves is mostly low value at this point, not due to the fact that other moves have better super armor, but because his range on them is negligable - and his movement ability doesn't really help there.  If you feel you're a good example of how B.Dad should be played I would be happy to either 2v2 with or against you.  So far, I still feel like big daddy is below average, both from what I have seen others do, and what I have been able to make that boat of a character do himself.  But I am always looking for an opportunity to be proven wrong.

 

Nariko is in a similar boat, I have heard people say she is underrated, but I have yet to see a compelling argument to that extent and would love an opportunity to see what she can do.  

 

And just to re-state, that tier is the "just below average" tier for both (Biggy D and Shetos, er, Nariko).

 

 


What moves did you try? I know for a fact that his armored square moves, especially forward square, beats both of those. Also about the grounded charge, it has more armor while you hold the triangle button, but it also makes him keep charging when he hits something (So follow up won't usually land).



Yeah I don't mind doing a 2v2 with you. Not sure who I'll partner with though. probably whoever's online at the time XD



This may sound like a terrible question, but what's your skill level? I don't want to come in with someone like iiggy and have you think my partner did all the work (iiGGY is retarded in teams, or even in general.).

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PlayStation MVP
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Re: Tier List Discussion

Jan 16, 2013
I've lost count of how many times the armor on Big D's square attacks saved me in the middle of one of my combos.
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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 11/28/2012
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Re: Tier List Discussion

[ Edited ]
Jan 16, 2013

@fromundaman

 

I used square, forward square, down square and up square respectively, from what I saw it seemed that they only had 20-25 points of super armor which meant that a 30 AP attack would beat it out.  The triangle charges however seemed to have enough super armor to deal with a 30 AP attack in my testing.

 

Yeah I saw the triangle charge carry past the opponent a few times while I was playing, but seemed to be able to deal with that by releasing triangle and pushing it again right when I made contact with the opponent.

 

I would be happy to be your partner and evaluate it from that perspective if that's easier.  Everything goes on stream and gets archived so we can talk about it with examples which would be ideal for continued discussion.

 

As to my skill level, it varies, but I would call myself a competitive player.

 

Feel free to add me

 

PSN: HotBoxGaming

 

 

Come watch competitive and casual PSASBR play:
http://twitch.tv/hotboxgaming
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Gaming Beast
Registered: 11/22/2012
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Re: Tier List Discussion

Jan 16, 2013
Well that actually sounds perfect! I'll add you next time I'm on. I'm about to go to work atm though.

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