01-15-2013 12:52 PM
I appreciate that people may percieve inacurracies, that is the intent of the post, to discuss what and why those inaccuracies are.
If you don't really feel like contributing to the conversation, that's fine, but try and keep things constructive where possible, eh?
01-15-2013 01:12 PM
For 2v2 or FFA a constructive discussion is better IMO.
This is an inaccurate way of making a tier list. Different advantages will be better or worse than others as well as those advantages working better against certain characters but not others.
A matchup chart is better.
01-15-2013 02:33 PM
You touch on a few great points Fromundaman:
The Big Daddy conundrum for me is that for everything he does I feel like other characters do better. He has more armored moves than probably all of the other characters combined, but none of his armored moves are as good as Evil Cole's Giga Punch, Sly's somersault thing, and Kratos' chain grab which are all armored, eject spiral and have better speed and range than Big Daddy's options generally. He has good crowd control tools, but they are so slow to execute it feels like he almost requires the opponent to have already been crowd controlled for him to really use his traps outside of combos. And while he has some moderate zone control through the use of those traps, etc., he is outshined by the zone control specialists. The real kicker for him is the lack of a strong accessible super - his best bet being his level 2. His down triangle is superb, but generally requires that he be the focus of both players for him to capture them both in the AOE (he pairs well with Sly for this and a couple other reasons). He also struggles a lot against players who competently defend. For example the down triangle tech trap is great, until the opponent just stands up blocking and punishes you for it. I also have never had a significantly skilled Big Daddy on my team so it's hard for me to comment as to his ability to provide team cohesion. I would say that his mobility is his greatest problem in a 2v2 situation, followed again by his limited Level 1.
Jak... well he is a weird one. He has some of the best mobility in the game, and you are right the fact that he is so good at staying off the ground helps with his survivability. But in a timed ranked match I haven't seen him land his LVL3 regularly, and his other supers are generally “bad”. His 1 is one of the worst in the game due to its range and inability to be confirmed into and his 2 only seems a little better (though this might be lack of knowledge on my part).
Both of these characters suffer from not being able to guarantee kills by themselves, and while in a team match your partner can help cover those gaps, a team comprised of two characters who don't need support (but can support each other) is probably better than a team of 2 who DO need support. And it may turn out that in the long run 2v2 is going to come down to ranking teams (like Marvel 2) I doubt we have the information necessary to even start that. As such I have really tried to keep my focus at a "standalone" viability perspective.
All of that said, it may be worth adding in something to track horizontal and vertical interruption options, though I fear it would change very little in the final tiers (it would mostly help the already great characters just off the top of my head) though it may provide a bit more distinction in the lower ranks.
01-15-2013 03:48 PM - edited 01-15-2013 03:50 PM
Tiers? in this game? well I am not sure but let's give it a try
FOR WHAT I'VE SEEN
Ratcher and Clank
Jak and Daxter
but I still don't see how this game should have its tiers list
01-15-2013 04:04 PM - edited 01-15-2013 04:05 PM
I do like this tier-list as it's pretty considerate. My two issues are just this from personal experience:
Otherwise this is pretty **bleep** good. At least a kudo.
01-15-2013 04:19 PM
If he's that good then i'm yet to see a real good heihachi player. But yes, I agree, he is better than Jak, Jak is just a crappy character...
and GOD I hate sly cooper, he has no bad match-ups at all
01-15-2013 04:21 PM