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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: This Is a strategic game...

Feb 15, 2013

M-Pyre wrote:

all the great players are 'great' because of kc... without it, they would be mildly better than alot of people on here... 


I thought they were great because they have a better knowledge of when to attack, defend, and place the correct lvl 1,2, or 3.

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Splicer
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Re: This Is a strategic game...

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Feb 15, 2013

ATL_UNTAMEDBEAST wrote:

KilLerRaYzZ wrote:

You seem to be ignoring what I said earlier about kill confirms too.  They negate a lot of the skill from actual combat, as some are easier to perform than others.


This same senario happens in every game. Some characters are better than others, in shooters, some guns are better than others, in sports games, some teams are better than others, so on and so on. You'll never find perfect balance in any game, you are an idiot if you think you will. There will always be the top tier, middle tier, and lower tier in every game. If you can't get used to it then quit playing video games.


But they are better for the wrong reasons.  The only reason some characters are considered good is because of their easy kill confirms.  It's not that there isn't perfect balance, but it's that there's literally ~3 characters that make up a majority of black belt players due to their easy KC's.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: This Is a strategic game...

Feb 15, 2013

M-Pyre wrote:

all the great players are 'great' because of kc... without it, they would be mildly better than alot of people on here... 


Because fighting games aren't suppose to have set ups?

 

Give me a break!

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: This Is a strategic game...

Feb 15, 2013

KilLerRaYzZ wrote:

ATL_UNTAMEDBEAST wrote:

KilLerRaYzZ wrote:

You seem to be ignoring what I said earlier about kill confirms too.  They negate a lot of the skill from actual combat, as some are easier to perform than others.


This same senario happens in every game. Some characters are better than others, in shooters, some guns are better than others, in sports games, some teams are better than others, so on and so on. You'll never find perfect balance in any game, you are an idiot if you think you will. There will always be the top tier, middle tier, and lower tier in every game. If you can't get used to it then quit playing video games.


But they are better for the wrong reasons.  The only reason some characters are considered good is because of their easy kill confirms.  It's not that there isn't perfect balance, but it's that there's literally ~3 characters that make up a majority of black belt players due to their easy KC's.


What would be being better for the right reasons? What you said just sounds dumb. Just because they have easy KC's doesn't mean they are the best character. Ratchet wins almost every tourny nowadays and his KC isn't as easy as some of the guys who don't get good placings like Fro said. Have you ever thought that maybe crying isn't the answer? Try learning how to beat it because you crying isn't going to do anything. I have no issues with KC's. If i get hit its my fault, not his.

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Splicer
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Re: This Is a strategic game...

Feb 16, 2013
No, but they are the easiest and most annoying characters that make the game less enjoyable, in my opinion.
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Splicer
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Re: This Is a strategic game...

Feb 16, 2013

And I'm not crying.  I hate when idiots say that.  I am stating my opinion in a thread that has had a lot of talk about KC.  It's just what I think of it.  Just because I have a different opinion than you and do not think this game is 100% perfect does not mean I am crying.  

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: This Is a strategic game...

Feb 16, 2013

Fromundaman wrote:

M-Pyre wrote:

all the great players are 'great' because of kc... without it, they would be mildly better than alot of people on here... 


Ummm... No. 3 of my 5 characters don't even use KCs. I pull these characters out in tournaments. Even amongst the ones that do, such as GC, I tend to kill more with raw supers than KCs. That being said, great players use KCs because it is dumb to neglect a tool in your arsenal.





IceColdKilla44 wrote:

Strategic? Right, guess that explains why most players on the high leaderboards are just spammers, rage-quitters, and KC abusers.

 


Leaderboards mean nothing. Well, FFA leaderboards anyway. 2v2 I tend to only see good players near the top, but FFA is a game mode that rewards spam. Tournament placements mean so much more than that **bleep**.




pb_mal wrote:
I agree with I cold killa and m- pyre
Haven't you been beaten by a couple good tournament players who didn't use KCs? Agreeing with M-Pyre seems weird since you've already experienced the contrary...






@Tmxelmo: Not going to quote it since it's long but that was a good read. I enjoyed that and have a few friends I need to show that to. That being said you should just stop trying. I've tried so hard to reason with people like this and it doesn't work. Just ignore it and play with the competitive community who actually prefers learning how to beat strategies rather than crying about it.



By the way, to the guy complaining that Raiden's KCs are easier than Ratchet making him a better character: Raiden hasn't placed in a tournament in quite a long time now. Ratchet is consistently winning tournaments on a weekly basis against top players.

i just fought M-Pyre i beat him first match with my drake then i played some kat vs him he is decent he beat me a number of times and i beat him too and im sure im not the first to say that Jaks Down Circle that AOE red beam is super broken every single fight was as follows Jak jumps in air Down circle forward Squard 2 times if it hits then ground gun shot back into the air again the entire match this dude is in the air with a move that is almost impossible to punish he won fair and square but that move needs some looking at it should not have a guard break

Learn to fight
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/prologue.html
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I Only Post Everything
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Re: This Is a strategic game...

Feb 16, 2013
Ok. To put some input in from myself, who is a decent player and I only use jak in ranked, you do not need kill confirms to win. I beat raiden, fp, and kratos all the time, kat too. I win from awareness. I see them get lvl 1 and if raiden starts using side square or aerial circle dash i start BLOCKING and avoid his attempts to confirm me by countering his incoming attack with an attack of my own. Most raidens are too dumb to even actually wait to use the super after they see the knockdown happen so i just shorthop with jak, do a tiny red circle stopping his super then combo him to build my ap for lvl 3. After losing countless games to raiden drake and kratos i am so good at predicting their next attack that I can hardly be touched unless i am facing a skilled player whos game is also based on character knowledge and not just what kills noobs and what is easy. Seriously of you complain about k/c i highly doubt your anything more than average. I rage over a stupid minion spamming fp too. But i avoid the confirms well enough that it does not cost me the match. Just learn to deal with it. It was meant to be in the game and always will. I hate having to talk myself up and bash others abilities, but take it from someone who uses jak in ranked ffa and has earned a black belt for 3 seasons, about to be 4 post this season, they do not make it any easier or harder to win. Knowledge wins me the match not spamming not k/c and not op characters. Check me out on the leaderboards if you dont believe me, my favorite allstar is jak and he is completely underpowered compared to the likes of drake, sly, kratos, fp, raiden, and the coles. L2p people.
"ZA ZA ZA ZA ZING"
Mains: Jak, Isaac Subs: Spike, Drake, Evil Cole
6 Seasons with Black Belt! (should be 8)
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Lombax Warrior
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Re: This Is a strategic game...

Feb 16, 2013

BIGPOPPA21089 wrote:
Ok. To put some input in from myself, who is a decent player and I only use jak in ranked, you do not need kill confirms to win. I beat raiden, fp, and kratos all the time, kat too. I win from awareness. I see them get lvl 1 and if raiden starts using side square or aerial circle dash i start BLOCKING and avoid his attempts to confirm me by countering his incoming attack with an attack of my own. Most raidens are too dumb to even actually wait to use the super after they see the knockdown happen so i just shorthop with jak, do a tiny red circle stopping his super then combo him to build my ap for lvl 3. After losing countless games to raiden drake and kratos i am so good at predicting their next attack that I can hardly be touched unless i am facing a skilled player whos game is also based on character knowledge and not just what kills noobs and what is easy. Seriously of you complain about k/c i highly doubt your anything more than average. I rage over a stupid minion spamming fp too. But i avoid the confirms well enough that it does not cost me the match. Just learn to deal with it. It was meant to be in the game and always will. I hate having to talk myself up and bash others abilities, but take it from someone who uses jak in ranked ffa and has earned a black belt for 3 seasons, about to be 4 post this season, they do not make it any easier or harder to win. Knowledge wins me the match not spamming not k/c and not op characters. Check me out on the leaderboards if you dont believe me, my favorite allstar is jak and he is completely underpowered compared to the likes of drake, sly, kratos, fp, raiden, and the coles. L2p people.

in a 1v1 situation jak if played right is nearly untouchable just like you said which is wrong that Down Circle move needs a nerf and you seem like a good enough player to see that it does need a small nerf either needs its range nerfed or it needs no guard break the only way to punish that move is with a ranged attack even then its hard as hell to hit and his recovery after is nothing not to mention if you use that move and jump its impossible to grab someone doing that

Learn to fight
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/prologue.html
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Fender Bender
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Re: This Is a strategic game...

Feb 16, 2013
Only been beat by Asia and kmart , and I beat kmart once with Dante -,- he beat me three
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