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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 01/24/2013
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Re: Something Needs to Be Done

Feb 3, 2013

ESOLIS07 wrote:

you're in a way wrong not all characters have kill confirms like big daddy, where as raiden probably has the easiest kill confirms in the game along with evil cole,it's just not fair that if does come down to kill confirms then some players just become useless.i don't how many times i have come up against an evil cole and all they do is spam the grenades from a far jump and repeat.so when they get their lvl one falcon punch followed by his lvl 1 super, yes you can block it but most of the time you're fighting someone else.not to mention that falcon punch is super fast.so in other words it's not fair and kill confirms are just cheap.


Wrong, Big Daddy does have Kill confirm, it's just not that easy to accomplish. The entire super in general is garbage, so it doesn't help much, but it does have a kill confirm. Every single character in this game has a kill confirm, but they aren't all as easy as someone like Raiden's.

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Survivor
Registered: 01/23/2013
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Re: Something Needs to Be Done

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Feb 3, 2013

Here is where I disagree, the game does not center around kill confirms. It centers around killing people, but how you go about that is your business. The problem with the kill confirm system is that
a) not every character has many
b) some of them are much easier to pull off than others.

What this effectively does is make it easier for one person or character to get a kill than another which is what the game will be decided on. Add that in to some of those characters having faster AP gains than others and you can see how unbalanced it is. Simply saying punish them if they are doing the same thing over and over is not as easy as it sounds. Especially when there are two other people you have to account for.

There is a reason there is such a proliferation of Raiden and Sly users online in comparison to say Big Daddy or Sir Daniel. It is far easier to confirm kills with any of them than with some of the lesser used characters. Which is why if they are going to keep kill confirms make it so that they aren't so easy to pull off. Why would anyone take the time to learn any other character when they can just go invisible with sly and use their level 1 or just press side circle with Raiden and then use their lvl 1. It is all good and well to apply combos or punish people in 1v1s but online that is hardly every the case as you have found out.

If they are going to make it so that you can use 1 move and get a kill, then either make it
a)so that every character has one that has the same ease to pull it off with
b)balance it in such a way that there are trade offs because of the kill confirm such as a decrease in AP gain or a slower super etc.

As of now that is currently not taking place, which is part of the reason people will quit. It is rather difficult for someone to stay and use a more difficult character and try to play when a less skilled player can use one move and kill you. The game should reward more skilled players, it currently defeats the purpose of of picking anyone outside of the characters you see often and learning them.


With respect to the latter aspect of your comment I would have either :
- removed the quit button altogether from the menu during online play

- add a host migration system but I am not sure if this is or was possible with Superbot's budget

- Give a reward to players who stayed during matches when the host disconnects

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Something Needs to Be Done

Feb 3, 2013

yea, i know that kill confirm is after the electric plasmid, but people are catching on to it.now when i call my lvl one a lot of people are just blocking in the air so that the little sister misses them.well, that's what i mean you just agreed to waht i was saying.if the game focuses so much on kill confirms now then why someone like raiden and evil cole have amazing kill confirms, while big daddy doesn't at that point he becomes obselete in the game useless, in terms of kill confirms.

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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 01/24/2013
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Re: Something Needs to Be Done

Feb 3, 2013

You're very right about that, the game does center around killing people, but the metagame centers around kill confirms. Even the actually really skilled players are going to use kill confirms because wy waste your AP on a possibility when you can ensure a gurantee. 

 

I agree that there should be more balance though, and your ideas are good in that regard. It's not a bad way to fo about things, but I doubt they'll ever do that. If they do though, I'd be glad. I rely so heavily on Nathan Drake because he's a lot less work then Dante. Granted, I actually really like Nate, I still rely on him because of his lower learning curve and safe attacks. I understand why people use the same old characters, and that totally makes sense. 

 

The host migration thing sounds good. I don't see what budget has to do with that, but I like the idea. It would really smooth things along. The rewards for players who stick around is also good like extra BP or RP.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Something Needs to Be Done

Feb 3, 2013

as for vizionary thank you, well said.everybody picks kratos, raiden and sly.lots of times i'm straight up kicking people's butts, but then all of a sudden one little ole simple kill confirm that takes almost no effort at all and boom they kill.it gets very frustrating when i'm having this huge trouble trying to land my lvl one and i just can't, because it comes out so slow.so i have no option but to save up my lvl 2 and even that super it's hard to land any kills.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Something Needs to Be Done

Feb 3, 2013

ESOLIS07 wrote:

yea, i know that kill confirm is after the electric plasmid, but people are catching on to it.now when i call my lvl one a lot of people are just blocking in the air so that the little sister misses them.well, that's what i mean you just agreed to waht i was saying.if the game focuses so much on kill confirms now then why someone like raiden and evil cole have amazing kill confirms, while big daddy doesn't at that point he becomes obselete in the game useless, in terms of kill confirms.


I'll put it simply. Some characters just are better than others in any game. In this game, the balance is all out of whack, so it's worse here. However, people still use their favorite characters even if they don't stack up. You make them work. Nariko is definitely not that amazing of a character but Public_Enemy645 kicks major **bleep** with her. If you can't bear the characters weakness, drop them, otherwise, work with what you've got. I'm sure like at least once character with really decent potential, so it's not like you don't have the option to use someone better if need be, and if you're one of those people who only uses one single character in a roster of twenty, then that's on you entirely.

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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 03/22/2012
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Re: Something Needs to Be Done

Feb 3, 2013

just get rid of the kill confirms period.because that leaves the game to more of a open style of gameplay rather than just being predictable.this game has been out long enough where i know what every character(popular one's) are going to do.now it is still very hard to counter because i'm trying to gain ap and not just block.that's just my opinion get rid of the kill confirms so the game just doesn't get repetive.i'm literally able to call out when an opponent is gonna use one of his supers, and what's the fun in that.the game is suppose to be unpredictable, so the kills feel more rewarding when you get a kill.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Something Needs to Be Done

Feb 3, 2013

I suppose that's one way to do things, but then you'd still have the same issue. Instead of people using characters with the best kill confirms, they'd just use the ones with the best overall supers. Big Daddy's still gonna be useless in that metagame as well and Raiden, Kratos, and Sly would both still be very high. Nariko would be exactly where she's always been, and Nathan is another example of someone who'd be high up because his level 1 is godly when it wants to be. Plus, removing kill confirms would involve changing the moves in order for them not to work the way they do now which would make the game very awkward. 

 

I don't think that's the best approach.

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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 03/22/2012
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Re: Something Needs to Be Done

Feb 3, 2013

well, i use sly cooper as my second guy, and i kick **bleep** with him.even though i don't spam his forward triangle move.his stun's are amazing along with his ground slide.yes, youre right some characters are weaker than others, but some are really way way below the tier's list.the most sad part about his game imo is superbot was created by sony.and people at superbot the majority of them were so called experts in fighting games.well, this game is by far the worst fighting game i have ever played in terms of the mechanics.yes its fun, but the mechanics of the game don't work.therefore i hope the next psabr 2 if they do make it i hope some other developer makes it because superbot killed a game with tremendous potential.hell maybe thats why they laid off 20 people not that long ago.you just don't make a new developer and give them a game like this.

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Survivor
Registered: 01/23/2013
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Re: Something Needs to Be Done

Feb 3, 2013
I hear you ESOL, I too have difficulties because I stay far away from the popular characters. I main GC and while he is very much a good character in 1v1 situations he is pretty difficult to get AP quickly in FFA, as for big daddy I feel sorry for anyone who is a staunch user of him. He has perhaps the worst level one in the game, probably competing with Sir Daniel's level 1.

Another problem I see with the kill confirms is that they occur so quickly. For some of them you have milliseconds to react. Evil Cole's giga punch happens in the blink of an eye, that move Raiden does to slide across the field is lightning quick (no pun intended) and I often get distracted by Fat Princess to notice the little red guy she sends out to stun me.

Due to the fact that no online game can operate in a latency free environment and you see where part of the problem lies. Every Big Daddy I have ever seen online was just one big target for everyone else. These characters are all good in 1v1 situations but most difficult to use online.

It is simply an issue of creating some sort of either draw back or pro to using some of the lesser used characters as opposed to others.
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