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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Sir Daniel Fortesque Overview - My thoughts

Sep 4, 2012

Kudos to you man, that was a great read.

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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: Sir Daniel Fortesque Overview - My thoughts

Sep 4, 2012

Prior to Sir Dan's unveiling, my only experience with the MediEvil series was a demo of the sequel that I played back in late 1999/early 2000. Other than that, I haven't had much exposure. MediEvil II, much like i-Ninja, are games that I played demos of but never had the time to get the full copies until recently. I now own a copy of MediEvil II(Cost me $18), so I received "closure", as it were. When I found out Sir Dan was in the game after the Beta Leak, was when I decided to buy MediEvil II. So far I just finished the Kessington stages, and am taking my time with it... should have held off til halloween, but eh.

I'm having a tough time deciding whether to get the PSP or PS1 version of MediEvil I. On the one hand, I like the packaging of the PSP version better, and I have less PSP games than I do PS1 games. That, and having both MediEvil I & II on PS1 seems a bit redundant. Alternatively, I could get Resurrection on PSP, and download the PS1 version on my PS3.

out of those, what would be the best route? Price isn't much of an issue, since I'd be paying the same price for either the PS1 version or PSP+PSN version.

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Wastelander
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Re: Sir Daniel Fortesque Overview - My thoughts

Sep 4, 2012
did sniperwolf read anything the Fabsta typed? lol

ouyofo.jpg

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Sir Daniel Fortesque Overview - My thoughts

Sep 4, 2012

Sorry, fabsta1994, but your post did nothing in the way of convincing me that Superbot got Fortesque right. I'll post a little more about why later but before I do that, I think my first post after I saw the character will be a good way of explaining my starting position:

 

"I have to agree with those who say Sir Dan is disappointing. Without Crash, he was the one character who might've convinced me to purchase the game but I agree, Superbot messed up.

 

Some people might think that's a big statement so for the uninitiated, who never played the Medievil games, I'll give a few reasons why; firstly, Sir Dan was never a slow character. I actually saw this thread before I saw the gameplay footage, so I immediately went to the video when I discovered there was one. At first, I didn't really see anything wrong. Then I noticed he wasn't doing any combos, this first big mistake. He did combos with his swords in the Medievil games, only doing big single attacks with his Club or Hammer. Then he did the Daring Dash and good Lord, it was slow! The whole point of that move is that it's fast! Once you unlock the move in Medievil, you use it constantly because it's so much quicker than running.

 

There's also the fact that Superbot billed him as a "Melee [Area Of Effect]" character when one of the big appeals of Medievil was Sir Dan's wide range of weaponry, not all of it melee-based. Superbot have failed to capitalise on that and made him solely, or at least predominately, a melee character. What about his throwing daggers, crossbow, three types of longbow, his axe and even his own arm? The sequel added a pistol, blunderbuss, gatling gun and bombs into the bargain. I noticed Sir Dan's level one super was his Lightning attack but even that wasn't the same as in the Medievil games! It looked woefully ineffective. And I'm not sure what they were going for with his level two super; rather than going for a conventional weapon (which the Lightning would've been better for, in my opinion), Sir Dan uses the Chalice Of Souls to summon souls that ... magically kill anyone they touch, I guess? The Chalice didn't work like that. The one time souls have come out of the Chalice was to summon a heroic skeletal army (which would've been a great level 3 super but you never know, maybe the one they have will be good. It might be the Chicken Drumstick weapon).

 

And before anyone accuses me of sticking too rigidly to fanboyism, let's remember that PSASBR is a game whose developers pride itself on being loyal to each individual franchise. I think they've let this franchise down a bit."

 

Okay, so I'll try not to repeat those points and just stick to your other ones. Firstly, all you seem to be saying about his speed is that Dan is a good character because ... you don't think he was that fast to begin with, with the exception of the Daring Dash. Well couldn't I just as easily say that he is? I mean, I've played Medievil and I've also played games starring other characters from Playstation All-Stars ... so I can't explain why Sir Dan is slower than, say, Drake when, in their individual games, Dan runs at a speedy jog and Drake trots along like a toddler who's just soiled himself. When the Daring Dash, Dan's fastest attack, looks slow, there's a problem.

 

Also, it's not people confusing the Broadsword with the Small Sword (although I've seen that mistake made too and I'm fairly certain the person wasn't a Medievil fan). However, the Broadsword's Resurrection design is an issue. As is the Longbow's Resurrection design. And Dan's armour's Resurrection design (seriously, a huge hole in the abdomen? This was the armour he wore into battle, let's remind ourselves). And you were also incorrect about the Dragon Potion. You had it the wrong way around, there was no such thing as a Dragon Potion in the original Medievil, you just gained the armour by defeating the dragon. That was Resurrection-only. It really feels like Superbot only played one game. And we're supposed to like the Anubis Stone too, just because it was supposed to be in the original game? Listen, it didn't work for "Aerith", it's not going to work for this.

 

With the exception of one thing: the Dan-hand. You say you don't know why people are complaining about this but, much like with the Chalice, people are complaining about this because it being used as an attack was not in Dan's original repetoire of moves (in fact, being defenseless while using it was the entire point). And, again, much like the Chalice, there are other weapons from Dan's extensive arsenal that could've been used instead.

 

And Dan being able to carry a Gatling Gun without so much as a grunt justifying him being solely a strong character? Well I could say "he threw the Throwing Daggers without his arms ever getting tired and slowing down", which makes him a fast character, couldn't I? Excuse me but what we had here was the opportunity for the most varied character in the entire game -- you know, like he was in his original series? -- but we're missing out because he's been pigeonholed into a character archetype that didn't fit him. It suited Superbot's roster and if that's the case, why pick him?

 

By the way, Al-Zalam wasn't the only reason people disliked Resurrection. It ended on a cliffhanger that acted like there'd be a sequel featuring Zarok, when there was already a sequel that didn't feature Zarok, making it look like they were trying to retcon Medievil 2 out of existence. It made Dan a mute, which, annoyingly, is the version Superbot seem to be going for. Do you know how often I thought about hearing Dan's jawless "I'll show you!" before each fight? Many times. But no, they decided to save on a voice actor and pander to the PSP/Resurrection crowd once again.

 

To sum up, to say "this is for the fans" is a joke when the fans wait years for a character's return and it's based off a single game's research, betrays those games' mythology (the Chalice, the Dan-hand), is pigeonholed into a character archetype he doesn't belong in and whose varied weapons -- the main appeal of the character -- aren't made full use of because of that. I'd like to point out that this isn't being picky. Being picky would be pointing out that the "double-slash, stab" combo that Dan could only do with the Short Sword is being done with the Broadsword in this version. But that would be a step too far. As well as Raiden instead of Snake, current Dante and current Heihachi, "Resurrection-Melee AOE"-Danis just a sign that this game is not for the fans. It's a billboard for current titles and a middle finger to classic ones.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Sir Daniel Fortesque Overview - My thoughts

[ Edited ]
Sep 4, 2012

A nice rebuttal. Good show!

 

You may think Fortesque was not "done right", but you can say the same about other characters as well. Parappa couldn't hurt people on his skateboard, he only rapped. Fat Princess in fact never fought in the first place, etc. etc.

 

About his appearance, I did a breakdown on the elements in his armour. He is a mix of both Daniels regardless if his Resurrection appearance is more dominant. Keep in mind that several of the characters are composite characters (Jak being a good example) and most are made to look like their most recent appearance regardless of which era they came from or whatever reboot they were spawned from. Remember that there is always an option for a skin/armour change. So the cosmetics is nothing to worry about.

 

As for his moves, again, he is a composite character no matter which way you look at it. If you're disatisfied with his equipment and lack of combos then that is your opinion, which I respect and understand. However, Dan virtually had no combos other than his broadsword and shortsword attacks in the classic games. He had new combos in Resurrection. Wouldn't you think it'd be silly for him to take the time to switch his small sword for a broadsword just to do the same combo he could do with either with his amount of strength? I do agree that they should have included the pistol or Minigun somewhere in there, but that remains to be seen. Some moves may have been kept as a surprise.

 

For his supers, perhaps they could have done better, I will agree. But I can't agree with you on his Lightning super. It seems to have a homing effect, much like the classic lightning. The Chalice of Souls, while I would prefer he crank out a minigun, I can't argue with artistic license, especially when done right. Who's to say souls can't hurt anyone? It's been done in many stories. Also the Chalice is one of the most memorable items in the MediEvil franchise, there was no doubt it was going to appear in this game. The Anubis Stone is his only resurrection super. Now, I never said "you're supposed to like him because of etc," I'm just saying that Superbot is using all versions of Dan for supers despite the protests.

 

This may be a rumor, but if the "minions" are in fact true, Kiya will be included as an assist character. Further confirming that Dan is a composite character and not his Resurrection reboot. You seem to be completely convinced he is just his resurrection counterpart. You also denied his weapons that still retained their classic looks and only focused on the two that were designed for Resurrection.  Another false fact you gave was that Dan was essentially "mute". In Resurrection he was not mute. He could speak but like in Medievil 1, it was a garbled mess of mumbling, which many people liked over the sequel voice. We don't know if he still says anything because the game is still a WIP. As for the inclusion of the Anubis Stone and Aerith argument, to compare a story item that could have added to the story compared to a whole character is silly in retrospect. They're two different elements to a story. 

 

You may have not liked Resurrection, but some people did, including me. That's why Superbot is using resurrection designs, to stick with the "past, present, future" motif. If anything the advertisement argument is a double standard at best and there really isn't any point in arguing it. Every game will have advertising no matter which way you look at it. Why do you think Pit was included in Brawl? To bring back a forgotten character and advertise him for their planned future game of Kid Icarus. 

 

Even if Dan's abilities of his Chalice and his Dan Hand were not meant to hurt anyone, it's a fighting game, in most fighting games most moves that really aren't meant to hurt people, well... hurt.  This was to help implement him into the fighting game and appeal to his classic series. A for being "pigeonholed" into a character archetype, if Dan did use all of hsi weapons, like you said, they'd most likely be used for only one move. Mostly because Dan is a complicated character and if he was both strong and fast, he'd most definitely be the most overpowered character in the game. Other characters were dialed down as well just to keep things balanced. So it's not surprising they would do this to Dan. Kratos is a great example of this. Normally he'd rip everything to shreds but he can't, and some of his inventory was missing as well.

 

Past, present, and future is something that some can't find to understand when Superbot says "We're appealing to sony fans old and new". Because anything part of "the future" is considered advertisement. This further proves the redundancy of arguing advertisement. 

 

(EDIT) Whose to say Medievil II was to be retconned from Resurrection? For all you know there could have been an interquel leading up to Medievil II. All I know is that Resurrection's sequel has been cancelled until further notice, besides, in a twisted way, Zarok did in fact return in Medievil II in an alternate ending, but with Palethorn's face.

 

Tweakings can always be done. Whether you agree with me or not is your opinion. Daniel is in the game regardless and that's enough for me. From what I see I can play Daniel and still feel like it's him. I don't have a problem with any of his versions but that doesn't mean I'm forcing anybody to like him, just to appreciate the fact he was even considered and implemented into the game when they could have swapped him for someone else.

 

Opinions opinions, a lot of people are entitled to one. Whether a person's opinion can be strong or not, there will always be someone who will disagree, which should be respected. The thing that matters is the majority, and from the looks of things the majority like this Daniel.

 

I like you. You actually have a calm disposition and you have a solid argument compared to others and I respect that. I look forward to seeing you on the battlefield.

 

BEYOND!

 

 

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