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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Sackboy SHOULD NOT be nerfed

Nov 29, 2012

MarrowOchi wrote:

LX_Theo wrote:

mtjjrstccw1 wrote:
i never said he'd be unplayable...I never said its the only attack he has, i said it's a vital one of his attacks, it can be used strategically (without spamming) and is 1 of his fastest ejecting attack

You said he;d become so bad no one would play him.


Honestly, he would. Without his cakes what else does he have that would make people choose him over someone else?


He said this in response to an idea to penalyze spamming and spamming alone.

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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: Sackboy SHOULD NOT be nerfed

Nov 29, 2012

Goldhawk1 wrote:

MarrowOchi wrote:

I rely a lot on that punch because it has a small startup charge and its really great against groups.

 

Second, I don't spam happy. Heck Evil Cole is just the third character I play. I could make an assortment list of what each and every character should do against spam. You want me to go do that on a new thread? Because I could.


It's not like I don't know what to do against spam.  It's not like no one knows what to do against spam.

 

The concept of the matter is, people are spamming their most useful attacks that give them the greatest rewards.  

 

I'm not going to go into the whole spam vs countering vs Op argument because that's not what we're talking about.

 

This thread is about sackboy being OP.  He DOES need to be nerfed and you can't argue against it.  You just can't.  Out of all of his moves, you can use 3 and get a level 3 that is better than everyone else's level 3 and not only that, you get it faster than everyone else too.  Hell, at least Kratos's level 3 you can dodge super easily... sackboy's you might as well just sit there and let him kill you.  

 

You can talk all you want about how good he is long range blah blah freakin blah, idc, he's not only a long range character, he has close range moves and a wide variety of them to help him out, and he has COMBOS... that's right he can use combos so that right there tells you that people are only playing with sackboy in this way because it's the cheapest, easiest and most beneficial way to do so, which granted with the effects of his long ranged attacks, and the amount of AP he gets and how powerful and how quickly he gets is level 3 means that he is infact OP and he definitely needs to be looked into.  

 

The thing I find funny is, if spam isn't a problem...and if so many people on these boards "don't use spam" why the HELL are there so many people willing to defend it to death?  "oh just get good" no, why don't we STOP letting blackbelts boost on low level noobs with spam, why don't we stop the unfair AP gain, and stop the unfair multiple activations of level 3s and have the game be a balanced and well oiled machine VS everyone picking a character they like and simplifying that character down to 2 or maybe even 3 moves that benefit them the most.  


Amen brother and well said. It boggles my mind as well to see all these players defend Sackboy's spam moves (which is the ONLY thing everyone is complaining about....well those and his ubsurd lv 3). Especially the Sackboy users. If you use Sackboy then you should know better than anybody that he's broken and needs to be FIXED. Sly, Radec, and even Parappa were broken back in the early betas and were fixed on or before launch (Sly's LV1 & 2 were OP, Radec's LV1 was Godly, Parappa's LV2 lasted too long and his mic grab got slowed down slightly, there were other fixes to all 3 but these are a few). And guess what? No one's complaining about the fixes to these characters and the game is A LOT better now because of them.

 

Long story short, fixes aka nerfs are meant to FIX the game thus make it better, more fun and enjoyable for all, and above all more COMPETITIVE. So why are people fighting this instead of bringing up points that would actually HELP make characters and gameplay better?

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Fender Bender
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Re: Sackboy SHOULD NOT be nerfed

Nov 29, 2012

Because the people who actually 'are' competitive can get past them quite easily.

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Sackboy SHOULD NOT be nerfed

Nov 29, 2012

MarrowOchi wrote:

Because the people who actually 'are' competitive can get past them quite easily.


Some people want this game to also be assessible to everyone else but the top group of skill and not alienate everyone and kill this games chance from getting a real footing in the industry.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Sackboy SHOULD NOT be nerfed

Nov 29, 2012
His cakeinator is probably his second most useful move, and nefring it is a problem. Just put an anti spam system, then everyone would be happy.
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Fender Bender
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Re: Sackboy SHOULD NOT be nerfed

Nov 29, 2012

LX_Theo wrote:

MarrowOchi wrote:

Because the people who actually 'are' competitive can get past them quite easily.


Some people want this game to also be assessible to everyone else but the top group of skill and not alienate everyone and kill this games chance from getting a real footing in the industry.


And its doing quite a good job of that regardless of some morons who can't dodge something simple like spam. 

Here's something: Super Street Fighter 4's Dive Kicks. These things made low tier characters easy to use because you could use cross over. People who were good would know 'hey, I could probably use an anti-air Shoryuken to make sure he doesn't do this', and they do it because they're good.

 

People who 'want' to be competitive, won't complain because they know its a long and arduous road to becoming a good fighter.

 

If anything, I'm more scared of a good Sir Daniel player than I am of a good Sackboy. Sackboy's easy to read, especially with the spam.

 

Besides, those cakes aren't spam. They're chocolate with a jelly center. Are you chocolate with a jelly center for not winning? Maybe.

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Sackboy SHOULD NOT be nerfed

Nov 29, 2012

MarrowOchi wrote:

LX_Theo wrote:

MarrowOchi wrote:

Because the people who actually 'are' competitive can get past them quite easily.


Some people want this game to also be assessible to everyone else but the top group of skill and not alienate everyone and kill this games chance from getting a real footing in the industry.


And its doing quite a good job of that regardless of some morons who can't dodge something simple like spam. 

Here's something: Super Street Fighter 4's Dive Kicks. These things made low tier characters easy to use because you could use cross over. People who were good would know 'hey, I could probably use an anti-air Shoryuken to make sure he doesn't do this', and they do it because they're good.

 

People who 'want' to be competitive, won't complain because they know its a long and arduous road to becoming a good fighter.

 

If anything, I'm more scared of a good Sir Daniel player than I am of a good Sackboy. Sackboy's easy to read, especially with the spam.

 

Besides, those cakes aren't spam. They're chocolate with a jelly center. Are you chocolate with a jelly center for not winning? Maybe.


Is it? I keep hearing people getting frustrated with the "Kratoses" and "Sackboys" on sites I've been regularly looking at and not play as much or at all. Its starting to alienate people. I'm afraid the really bad spammers will reduce the game's community to just the elitists...

 

I've played the really good Slys, Sackboys, Kratoses... Those that don't spam... Spams are just frustrating even when you get around it. Losing to a skilled player, or staying in the battle, or even winning, is a lot different experience than the same against spammers.

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Keyblade Wielder
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Re: Sackboy SHOULD NOT be nerfed

Nov 29, 2012

MarrowOchi wrote:

LX_Theo wrote:

mtjjrstccw1 wrote:
i never said he'd be unplayable...I never said its the only attack he has, i said it's a vital one of his attacks, it can be used strategically (without spamming) and is 1 of his fastest ejecting attack

You said he;d become so bad no one would play him.


Honestly, he would. Without his cakes what else does he have that would make people choose him over someone else?


Oh, so you admit that his long ranged attacks are indeed OP and the only reason to even play the character complimented by the fact that his level 3 is one of the best in the entire game.  

 

How about we let people choose sackboy because they like the character, not because you can spam one move over and over again and get a level 3 faster than anyone else?  

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Keyblade Wielder
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Re: Sackboy SHOULD NOT be nerfed

Nov 29, 2012

O-EXTRA wrote:

 

Amen brother and well said. It boggles my mind as well to see all these players defend Sackboy's spam moves (which is the ONLY thing everyone is complaining about....well those and his ubsurd lv 3). Especially the Sackboy users. If you use Sackboy then you should know better than anybody that he's broken and needs to be FIXED. Sly, Radec, and even Parappa were broken back in the early betas and were fixed on or before launch (Sly's LV1 & 2 were OP, Radec's LV1 was Godly, Parappa's LV2 lasted too long and his mic grab got slowed down slightly, there were other fixes to all 3 but these are a few). And guess what? No one's complaining about the fixes to these characters and the game is A LOT better now because of them.

Long story short, fixes aka nerfs are meant to FIX the game thus make it better, more fun and enjoyable for all, and above all more COMPETITIVE. So why are people fighting this instead of bringing up points that would actually HELP make characters and gameplay better?


honestly, I think people are doing this because they're taking advantage of the spam, and it's working wonders for their win/loss ratio and don't want it to change because 

 

1. it's easier if you just get to spam one move and then learn how to continue how to spam vs learning how to play competitively

 

2. it'd put them on the same playing field as the people who wish to treat this as an actual fighting game/brawler rather than

 a spammer

 

I kid you not every black belt I've ran into will spam and spam until the match is over.  If you try to stop their spam, they already know ways to stop you or continue spamming in order to get the win, because in the end that's all that matters...getting off those cheap shots that'll build up super fast and then use said super to win.  

 

That has to be what it is...there's absolutely no reason to argue against a spam fix or even to tweak AP so that it's slightly less for some attacks and a bit more for others...that is unless you are the kind of person who relies on that heavily.  

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Gaming Beast
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Re: Sackboy SHOULD NOT be nerfed

Nov 29, 2012
The funny thing is that it seems from what I''ve been seeing that the people who play characters/have enough skill to do well against him think he's fine and those who get raped by him, whether by character matchup or lack of skill, rage and call for nerfs.

Start learning ways around it and if your character can't, thhen try another. I main Big Daddy and I can tell you now that while that matchup is doable, it's a very uphill battle from what I've seen. I picked up FP and now the MU doesn't seem all that bad.

It's a fighting game. Matchups matter.

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