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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Ring Out and Stage Interaction Suggestions

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Jul 16, 2012

O-EXTRA wrote:

I agree that things like the lurker shark should do more damage, or should I say take away more AP when hit. But as for ring out, I don't think this game needs it nor should have it. Not only would that make this game even more similar to SSB, but it would over complicate the killing system. You would have to worry about supers and getting knocked out too. Heck, people might just focus on knock out instead of supers since it'd probably be quicker and easier.

 

Aside from things like the lurker shark not penalizing the player enough, the system seems fine.


Well in the suggestion that's being made, you can't score points or lose a life because of ring outs. Essentially, the fighting mechanic remains the same: supers are still the only way to kill. Only difference being that ring outs will cause you to lose a chunk of your AP meter. Basically, it would just be another option for knocking AP out of your opponent (or rather, reducing your opponents AP meter).

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Treasure Hunter
Registered: 02/25/2012
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Re: Ring Out and Stage Interaction Suggestions

Jul 16, 2012
But then people could just self-ring out to avoid a Super, which is just cheap. Imagine someone dodging your level 3 that you spent the whole match building up by simply jumping into the Lurker Shark. Also, the characters are all really floaty, and the end of combos (via the Infinite Avoidance System) already send players flying across whole levels as-is, so if one a combo was done anywhere other than the edges of the levels (done aiming towards the middle of the level, not the edge, if you will) would likely result in a ring-out.

I agree that stage hazards need to do a bit more AP damage, but otherwise it's fine as-is.
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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Ring Out and Stage Interaction Suggestions

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Jul 16, 2012

DivinePaladin27 wrote:
But then people could just self-ring out to avoid a Super, which is just cheap. Imagine someone dodging your level 3 that you spent the whole match building up by simply jumping into the Lurker Shark. Also, the characters are all really floaty, and the end of combos (via the Infinite Avoidance System) already send players flying across whole levels as-is, so if one a combo was done anywhere other than the edges of the levels (done aiming towards the middle of the level, not the edge, if you will) would likely result in a ring-out.

I agree that stage hazards need to do a bit more AP damage, but otherwise it's fine as-is.

Ah that's a great a point! I suppose the solution to that would be to have ring outs count as kills during a level 3 super (or maybe even all supers). As per during a level 1 or 2, then it'd have to depend on when the user initiates their super, even then though, you're right that it can be used cheaply against certain supers (especially against Heihachi's level 2, for example). I'm sorry but I'm actually a bit confused about your second statement to be honest. Do you mean that the affect of knockback after a combo depends on where you are on the level?

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Gaming Beast
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Re: Ring Out and Stage Interaction Suggestions

Jul 16, 2012

To the OP: The Lurker Shark isn't supposed to be a major threat, it's just an incentive to guide the players back to battle. The real threat comes from how much time falling off and climbing back to the main stage costs you. Any time you're not fighting or killing, you're losing.

 

In one match I watched, Kratos had his Level 3 wasted because he chased a victim into the water and he ended up only getting that kill because of how long it took him to get back to the island while the other two fled to high ground.

______________________________________________________________________________


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Dart.jpg Daedalus.png Selvaria.jpg Alicia.png Dante.png Ellen.jpg


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Community Move-Set for Specter. Help build it.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Ring Out and Stage Interaction Suggestions

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Jul 16, 2012

Negimafan wrote:

To the OP: The Lurker Shark isn't supposed to be a major threat, it's just an incentive to guide the players back to battle. The real threat comes from how much time falling off and climbing back to the main stage costs you. Any time you're not fighting or killing, you're losing.

 

In one match I watched, Kratos had his Level 3 wasted because he chased a victim into the water and he ended up only getting that kill because of how long it took him to get back to the island while the other two fled to high ground.


That's a strong contention, but on the same note I think that's why a good lot of gamers might find it like a chore. To the those who think less competitively, it might evoke a feeling of tediousness through trial and error rather than an impulsive shock to rush back to the competition because of being directly threatened by something below. I think it adds to the excitement level, knowing that you're being chased by something that threatens your life (or in this case, your AP, but the visualization of a respawn can elicit the feeling of death), and as such, it could numb the thought of knowing that you have to climb back up because something else is on your mind (the Lurker Shark).

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Ring Out and Stage Interaction Suggestions

Jul 16, 2012

I figured that would draw a bit of confusion, because I wasn't sure how to word it much better, so my apologies on that.  You know how there's obviously a knockback function to prevent infinites?  Well that launches you across the map in most cases.  I'll add a picture to explain what I meant:playstation-all-stars-battle-royale.jpg

 

I know guys, I'm an amazing artist Smiley Wink

 

Say the Black dot (let's call that Sweet Tooth) did a combo to Red dot (Sly) and he hit his AP threshold.  Sly would be knocked back about the distance of the red line.  If they were in the middle of the level, like where Fat Princess is right now, Sly would be ring-outed or at least knocked into the Lurker Shark due to a combo he likely couldn't have escaped (partially due to not being able to block, but that's not the point here).  Essentially, ring-outs would actually hurt the combo system, because they'd either have to drastically lower the range of the IAS knockback (the point was to knock them back so they could get up without being groundspammed) or remove it (causing possible infinites that would break the game) to accomidate ring-outs

 

(The other point I made in my first post was more to clarify what I meant, but the picture does the job much better.)

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Ring Out and Stage Interaction Suggestions

Jul 16, 2012

Ah thanks, it's not a problem! Thank you for taking the time to be informative, it's much appreciated! Smiley Happy

 

That's very true. Hm, so just for the sake of being theoretical, do you think a possible solution would be to implement a system (I suppose much like Super Smash lol) where they could increase the range of recovery offscreen and show the location of your character offscreen via an onscreen icon? (By this I mean the ring out limit). I suppose you'd still have to lower the range of knockback though, even if it means to a lesser degree. It also doesn't solve the issue of characters not having a recovery move, which is something that most likely can't be implemented this late in the development process. 

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Ring Out and Stage Interaction Suggestions

Jul 16, 2012
It could work in theory, yes (as long as the map boundaries aren't inconsistent as hell a la SSB, I'd be alright with it). I think it's more a matter at this point of SuperBot not wanting to take too much out of SSB's playbook, and one of level design. Only one level really isn't boxed in, and that's Jak's level (name escaping me ATM), so ring-outs would be difficult to implement on most maps.

It's a possibility, but I don't think for this game. Maybe PSAS2 could add to the formula, but I think SuperBot has enough on its plate balancing characters as well as they seem to be, especially in the game's first entry. And let's face it, even if this game bombs, and it looks like a commercial success already, there WILL be a sequel.

Side note: Does the Dojo explode if stage hazards are turned off? Or would it just stay the same?
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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: Ring Out and Stage Interaction Suggestions

Jul 16, 2012

Ah ok. Well I guess that would make things more interesting.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Ring Out and Stage Interaction Suggestions

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Jul 16, 2012

DivinePaladin27 wrote:
It could work in theory, yes (as long as the map boundaries aren't inconsistent as hell a la SSB, I'd be alright with it). I think it's more a matter at this point of SuperBot not wanting to take too much out of SSB's playbook, and one of level design. Only one level really isn't boxed in, and that's Jak's level (name escaping me ATM), so ring-outs would be difficult to implement on most maps.

It's a possibility, but I don't think for this game. Maybe PSAS2 could add to the formula, but I think SuperBot has enough on its plate balancing characters as well as they seem to be, especially in the game's first entry. And let's face it, even if this game bombs, and it looks like a commercial success already, there WILL be a sequel.

Side note: Does the Dojo explode if stage hazards are turned off? Or would it just stay the same?

We haven't seen all the stages but judging by the ones that have already been announced, I'm assuming most of them are going to have physical walls implemented.

 

Yeah, depending on how well this game is received, by both the press and the community, is what might dictate what refinements will need to be made to the fighting mechanics. I'm sure, like Super Smash on N64, PASBR will serve as a blueprint for things to come. Ultimately we're all (well, most of us lol) Playstation fans who grew up with these characters and want to see the game do well (not just for our sake, but for SuperBot's sake). Regardless of the press aggregate, I know I'm going to have plenty of fun seeing Kratos and Crash (IT'S GONNA HAPPEN Smiley Wink) bump heads!

 

That's a good question! I hope they stay the same to be honest, kind of reminds me of a cage match lol. I think the only stage hazard is technically the MAWLR. 

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