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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

Dec 16, 2012

Snake_Nox wrote:

I just recently watched a bunch of combo videos from Superbot (Link below) and I could not find any combos that gives almost a full Super AND a super hit confirm. This gives me more reason to believe it is not a thing that was meant to do in the game. The most I saw of the Raiden combos was 1 or 2 hits and Super, not a long unescapable rushdown into a safe super.

I played some skilled Raiden and Fat Princess players and they give me a reason to fear these character. With Fat Princess, a lot of her attacks are rather safe, but when they hit, they really hit.
Raiden can freaking grab you and do an 80 AP combo AND Super in the same one. A bloody grab should not be able to do this.

 

That means that the first hit they do will give them a little more than a full LV1 super. The next will give them 80AP and kill you. So, basicly this means 4 hits and you´re dead. The only way is to be up in the air but there´s only so much time you can stay airbound. This makes ground attacks suicidal. If I want to attack I better be damned sure my attacks will hit cause if they whiff or are blocked I am DEAD. Any risky moves are out of the question. The only way to fight FP and Raiden is to do as safe moves as possible. Stay in the air all the time and block and dodge on the ground. Trying to grab a Fat princess or Raiden is even more risky cause if you miss they will kill you and only lose about 20 AP by doing so.

 

Let´s look at some other characters. An argument that FP and Raiden needs this is because they are just that unsafe that they need it. Look at Sweet Tooth and Dan. They are terribly unsafe and have a very poor AP gain. However, they to can combo into super. Sweet Tooth has 1 move that gives him max 20 AP and dan has even harder time getting that super. For most characters, it is a guessing game whether to land those supers, or do risky moves to nail them. It should not be possible to do such a long combo and end with a super that will always hit. There is no strategy to landing these supers, the only difficulty is the button combinations with I am sure is hard to do, but that does not make it less broken. There´s no mix ups here, it´s just depends on whether 1 player times it or not. With Parappa I can combo into super but it requires planning and positioning. I can´t just do the whenever I land my flying skateboard attack.

 

When I played Asis-aka-Talent and Chof I was constantly jumping around. When I played against Raiden I was afraid to be anywhere than on the ground. If I blocked I would die, If I tried to release block and jump there was a chance to get hit anyway. If I tried to dodge he could grab me and I often teleported back and he grabbed me, got 80 AP and then killed me. He got a new LV1. He never loses his LV 1 once he gets it. There is no point saving up for LV2, because 1 hit from him kills me anyway.

 

Sorry Asis, sorry Chof. I argue that these characters are broken. I get owned by freaking Drake and Ratchet too but I don´t feel mad about losing there, I can actually avoid Drakes super if I play it smart, and staying on the ground is not a death sentence. What do you feel about it? Am I wrong? Would they really be low tier characters if they could NOT do these super combos?

 

 

Link: http://superbotent.tumblr.com/post/37752925333/we-uploaded-this-combo-video-to-our-youtube)


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Wastelander
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

Dec 16, 2012

Good thread and yeah I can agree Raiden is a little to broken compared to the rest of the cast but in all honesty You dont know the match ups.  You dont know when to attack and when to evade.  FP and Raiden both do things that can be punished also you have to make sure that if your fighting a good player using these characters then you really have to get tricky.  It took me 2 weeks to learn how to fight High Level FP and it does seem unfair for the most part.  And I do think that her Raiden Drake and Kratos need tweeks some more than others but im not mad at you for this post.  But I will tell you that if you improve on the amount of things you do in a match you will do better.  You have combos off of everything but the way you come in and the way you wake up are almost always the same.  You almost become very predictable.  I would say you have to learn how to play FP to understand the best way to deal with her bro.  if you want I will teach you what I know and so will chof I think I remember him saying that to you but yeah If you have a mic one of these days I will show you online but other than that Good post I enjoyed this thread


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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

Dec 16, 2012
@Snake_Nox Also there are a few characters capable of building a lot of meter and then landing a super, Heihachi, Dante, PaRappa and Sir Daniel while some characters can do it but require more specific setups Big Daddy can do this too depending if his opponent is near the corner and Radec can do it when knocking his opponent back with is shotgun from the corner.

Raiden only needs his throw tweaked so he can't combo into a super after it because that opens up a huge option using a game mechanic that no other character has.
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Splicer
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

[ Edited ]
Dec 16, 2012

Hey Asis, I was waiting for you to post. Sound, reasonable arguments, as usual.

 

Yes, I get what you´re saying but It is really unnerving fighting her and Raiden. My only tweek for them to remove the long combo into super. I´m not saying they should remove the option to combo into super but once you got that level 1 it will never dissapear. and it is never a guessing game to land those super, and also they have plenty of options to do that. In our matches I hit you a lot and you hit me a lot. But imagine every time I do my long combo (or basicly any combo on the ground) with Parappa. I get the AP and you also die. I mean Parappa isn´t better than Raiden or FP by any means. He has short range and most moves that lead into combos are much more unsafe than both FP & Raidens. FP can get a long combo and super kill from far up in the air for christs sake! You know I get hits on you on wake up as well but I get 20 AP out of it, you get 80 and kill me. The only way to fight FP and Raiden is to do the most safe moves I know. Because they got the best punish moves in the game.

 

Knowing how to evade their attacks or not isn´t really relevant. It still comes down to one thing. They hit me once. I die. 4 hits, I lose the match. I can only evade those attacks for so long. Drake, Ratchet, Parappa, Sweet Tooth, whatever, have to hit their opponents multiple times more, and still do not have that many moves that combo into super.

 

Just for curiosity´s sake, who wins between you and Chof, when one is playing FP/Raiden and the other plays someone else?

 

 

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

Dec 16, 2012
@Snake_Nox Fat Princess doesn't really have any long combos into super unless in the corner, what she does have is some good hit confirms into them but not a long combo like PaRappa, Raiden or Sir Daniel have.
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Hekseville Citizen
Registered: 10/17/2012
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

Dec 16, 2012

Raiden's grab infinite thing ..broken yes indeed, FP broken ? no not at all you probs just can't play against her so you've made a thread complaining that she is broken or to be nerfed like nearly everybody else on here when they  cba to learn the game.

"All those moments will be lost..in time...like tears in rain"
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

Dec 16, 2012
i dont think FP is broken ;L
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

Dec 16, 2012
I actually fought Chof. Yeah against her staying on the ground right next to him or in a position of the knight is suicidal. Matter of fact the way he plays is just so good, and those one touch long combo kills are very annoying considering how safe they are. I main Sackboy and the most I can get from a super combo is 25, but it is so unsafe that using it without traps means death for me. I haven't fought a good Raiden yet, but I bet his grab combo could really annoy me.
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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

Dec 16, 2012
@Ginta2468 Though sackboy isn't really meant to combo to begin with, building up meter for his level 2 is mostly the main objective for himin most cases, 3 if you can get away with it :L
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Splicer
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

Dec 16, 2012

I need to state something. I am not complaining that FP is broken as a whole, she´s really not. However she would be top tier even without that super ending combo. Let´s take a look at her strenghts shall we?

 

She can attack from 2 different directions. In the air, she can attack diagonally down and straight forward at the same time. She can use her fire summons to use the fire as a shield. She is the only character in the game who litteraly can attack while blocking. Her moves are disjointed with the summons not having a hitbox. She could play keep away and use spacing to her advantage. She has a mine which is also pretty helpful. All of these attacks are fast, gives tons of AP and are alround very useful. Her summon attacks have no startup and no recovery (except that she only can have 1 summoned at a time).My question is: Why does she need a combo that gives her 80 AP and kills?

 

She does not. That part of her should not be there. I argue she would be top tier without it. Also, in contrast to what some has pointed out, she actually has a very small hurtbox. She cannot get hit by Dans super on the ground for example. Like I said, she is not broken as a whole. It´s just that dang a-s-s combo that I feel should not be there.

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