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Dec 16 2012
By: Snake_Nox Splicer 67 posts
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Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

43 replies 754 views Edited Dec 16, 2012

I just recently watched a bunch of combo videos from Superbot (Link below) and I could not find any combos that gives almost a full Super AND a super hit confirm. This gives me more reason to believe it is not a thing that was meant to do in the game. The most I saw of the Raiden combos was 1 or 2 hits and Super, not a long unescapable rushdown into a safe super.

I played some skilled Raiden and Fat Princess players and they give me a reason to fear these character. With Fat Princess, a lot of her attacks are rather safe, but when they hit, they really hit.
Raiden can freaking grab you and do an 80 AP combo AND Super in the same one. A bloody grab should not be able to do this.

 

That means that the first hit they do will give them a little more than a full LV1 super. The next will give them 80AP and kill you. So, basicly this means 4 hits and you´re dead. The only way is to be up in the air but there´s only so much time you can stay airbound. This makes ground attacks suicidal. If I want to attack I better be damned sure my attacks will hit cause if they whiff or are blocked I am DEAD. Any risky moves are out of the question. The only way to fight FP and Raiden is to do as safe moves as possible. Stay in the air all the time and block and dodge on the ground. Trying to grab a Fat princess or Raiden is even more risky cause if you miss they will kill you and only lose about 20 AP by doing so.

 

Let´s look at some other characters. An argument that FP and Raiden needs this is because they are just that unsafe that they need it. Look at Sweet Tooth and Dan. They are terribly unsafe and have a very poor AP gain. However, they to can combo into super. Sweet Tooth has 1 move that gives him max 20 AP and dan has even harder time getting that super. For most characters, it is a guessing game whether to land those supers, or do risky moves to nail them. It should not be possible to do such a long combo and end with a super that will always hit. There is no strategy to landing these supers, the only difficulty is the button combinations with I am sure is hard to do, but that does not make it less broken. There´s no mix ups here, it´s just depends on whether 1 player times it or not. With Parappa I can combo into super but it requires planning and positioning. I can´t just do the whenever I land my flying skateboard attack.

 

When I played Asis-aka-Talent and Chof I was constantly jumping around. When I played against Raiden I was afraid to be anywhere than on the ground. If I blocked I would die, If I tried to release block and jump there was a chance to get hit anyway. If I tried to dodge he could grab me and I often teleported back and he grabbed me, got 80 AP and then killed me. He got a new LV1. He never loses his LV 1 once he gets it. There is no point saving up for LV2, because 1 hit from him kills me anyway.

 

Sorry Asis, sorry Chof. I argue that these characters are broken. I get owned by freaking Drake and Ratchet too but I don´t feel mad about losing there, I can actually avoid Drakes super if I play it smart, and staying on the ground is not a death sentence. What do you feel about it? Am I wrong? Would they really be low tier characters if they could NOT do these super combos?

 

 

Link: http://superbotent.tumblr.com/post/37752925333/we-uploaded-this-combo-video-to-our-youtube)

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Uncharted Territory
Registered: 07/30/2012
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

Dec 16, 2012

I have to agree, honestly. Raiden's grab should not be a thing, he does not need it at all. Furthermore, both him and FP have really annoying stun states that they can easily combo or kill from. Chof's Fat Princess combo, for example. Most of the attacks in that combo ARE kill confirm attacks. It's a little ridiculous. 

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First Son
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

[ Edited ]
Dec 16, 2012

Like I said in the other thread, I have come in contact with many players that know how to dodge Raiden's level 1. The only sure way is to combo into it, which quite frankly every char can almost do. Even combo into it can be risky especially if the player KNOWS your going to do it. Raiden is good but ranged characters can punish him badly.

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

[ Edited ]
Dec 16, 2012

Half the cast have combos into super and other characters have anti air supers while others don't. EVERYTHING in this game is a guessing game and you have to employ different strategies to different characters. You can't expect to win a long range battle against Radec the same way you can't expect to just throw out random unsafe attacks against characters good on the ground. It's all part of the meta game.

Remember a lot of the time Fat Princess and Raiden are forced into the air because they can't land any of their stuff on the ground or it's suicide for them too and of course when they're forced to do this they are wide open to all the anti air supers of this game.

Jak for example completely dominates in the air and anything that's above him when he's on the ground so really gives Raiden a hard time and while Fat Princess has ways to land her supers very well she doesn't particularly shine at close or long range so any character that surpasses her in either will give her a tough time.

You have to emply different ways of fighting a character in order to take advantage of their weakness' and not let them emply their strengths, the same thing your opponent is trying to do aswell. If ever character had the exact same advantage and disadvantages then there would be absolutely no startegy involved. If you know your opponent is good upclose then keep them away from you, if you know they are good at space control then pressure them. Likewise if your opponent knows you're good at long range then of course they're going to try and get close and if your opponent knows you're not good at space control then their going to have to try and set it up.

 

Do some characters need tweaked? Well yes, there's no denying that but none need to be severly crippled either. It's still the learning stages so we still need to learn more about matchups and such before making any more harsh nerfs or super buffs. I main Fat Princess and Big Daddy. Now I know how to use Fat Princess but I also know how people can counter her and I know there are just some characters you do NOT want to fight a certain way, like I do NOT want to be close to Big Daddy with all his throw setups, I do NOT want to fight Radec at long range, I do NOT want to try and fight Jak in the air etc etc. Fat Princess is good but not broken, she has tricky setups but isn't the best at close range nor long range so characters that excel in either can really pressure her...that and if she misses one of her minions she's vulnerable since she can't bring out another one till the recovery animation finishes, also she is still "fat" in terms of hitbox size so she's fairly easy to keep pressured because of her size.

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Sackboy
Registered: 11/30/2011
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

Dec 16, 2012
The only thing that should be fixed is throws and infinites.

And the person who thinks Raiden's throw should be removed entirely is a fool.

Other than that, cry more about being combo'd by a combo character.
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

Dec 16, 2012

Minzara wrote:

Like I said in the other thread, I have come in contact with many players that know how to dodge Raiden's level 1. The only sure way is to combo into it, which quite frankly every char can almost do. Even combo into it can be risky especially if the player KNOWS your going to do it. Raiden is good but ranged characters can punish him badly.


But that's the thing. You didn't read his whole post, I assume. He's complaining that he has combos that can give him a ton of AP and end in a level 1. Raiden's level 1 by itself is annoying, but the fact that he has 4 or so incredibly simple ways to combo into it makes it really annoying. 

 

Face it, eventually Raiden's going to get to you, ranged character or not. He has way too good mobility to not be able to. That forward grab will screw you over, too. The only way to fight is to stay in the air, and even then he can just air combo you until he has a level 2.

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Splicer
Registered: 11/22/2012
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

Dec 16, 2012

Minzara wrote:

Like I said in the other thread, I have come in contact with many players that know how to dodge Raiden's level 1. The only sure way is to combo into it, which quite frankly every char can almost do. Even combo into it can be risky especially if the player KNOWS your going to do it. Raiden is good but ranged characters can punish him badly.


That, I have a problem with. How can anyone see those attacks coming? Almost all of his attacks do this!


Neutral square, grabbing, countering, charging, Diving all lead into a super combo. How can they see that? With lag to boot. With the lag that we have, If i´m in range of an attack when he does it, it´s too late to do anything about it. How can a player see through a grab, seriously? A fortune teller couldn´t see through that...

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First Son
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

[ Edited ]
Dec 16, 2012

Dante can combo into his level one from a one comdo as well with his infinite. Sweet Tooth gets his level one in 3-4 hits and then can go into his with a short jump. EVERY char can do this, its just not Raiden. Play more chars and play the game more and you will learn this. Raiden is the best character in the game when it comes to close ranged fighting, because that is all he has. The dude has no range game AT ALL.

 

@Snake_nox High level players see me setting it al the time. Try playing in the black belt tier and you will see.

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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 08/13/2012
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

Dec 16, 2012

This has happen to me and i found out that i can beat a compeitive raiden player by using Sweet tooth but other then tha i'm looking for a better match against fatty p aswell.

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Raiden & Fat Princess ARE incredibly broken

[ Edited ]
Dec 16, 2012

@Minzara Actually I'd argue Big Daddy is the best at close range, he's much like your grappler characters from other fighting games. His trap, tech chase and throw game are much better than most characters in the game aswell as his armored moves being able to just plow through attacks and knock down for a throw setup or trap. Half the time if any character tries to roll behind him he just has to turn around and throw because of his size meaning he doesn't have to chase after an rolling opponent. If you are ever in the corner against Big Daddy you are going to have a hell of a hard time dealing with him.

 

But like a grappler character this comes at the cost of having slow movement speed and being a big target.

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