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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Please make Raiden's combos slower or gain less AP

[ Edited ]
Dec 17, 2012

Fromundaman wrote:
Well, I've played against some of the people constantly **bleep** about these characters, then played people who are actually good with the characters. In every case player skill and matchup knowledge determined the outcome of the match. When you're playing a bad matchup, switch to a favorable one. Basically, this is a fighting game created with a fighting game mentality, and those complaining about it are 90% of the time casual players who don't try to play it competitively, but still want to skew the competitive balance.

That being said, I see you complain about characters a lot. Add me sometime and try these OP tactics, and we'll see if there isn't an effective way around them, okay?

I don't play with people I don't like, I made that very apparent to Asis. And I wouldn't use OP tactics, that's not my bag.

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Gaming Beast
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Re: Please make Raiden's combos slower or gain less AP

Dec 17, 2012

Strife93 wrote:

Fromundaman wrote:
Well, I've played against some of the people constantly **bleep** about these characters, then played people who are actually good with the characters. In every case player skill and matchup knowledge determined the outcome of the match. When you're playing a bad matchup, switch to a favorable one. Basically, this is a fighting game created with a fighting game mentality, and those complaining about it are 90% of the time casual players who don't try to play it competitively, but still want to skew the competitive balance.

That being said, I see you complain about characters a lot. Add me sometime and try these OP tactics, and we'll see if there isn't an effective way around them, okay?

I don't play with people I don't like, I made that very apparent to Asis. And I wouldn't use OP tactics, that's not my bag.


So you're just going to keep crying that everything is OP but refuse to play against anyone that disagrees/AKA could refute that claim?

All I'm saying, though I am getting a bit tired of saying it so often, is that this game is still very very young. There is a lot we haven't discovered, and calling for buffs and nerfs now is NOT a good idea. Let's develop more of the characters first. For example, people currently crying over Raiden (Which we're moving onto FP now I think), who are you playing? I am willing to bet a lot it's not Cole, who as I saw today is actually pretty good at the matchup. FP does well in that matchup too, as does Sweet Tooth from what I hear and it seems like Jak would too.

Now if you're playing someone like BD (My main), well Raiden is a very uphill matchup. Quite simply put, we should be figuring out ways around seemingly OP tactics first, then if after a few months we still can't find anything, then and only then start discussing nerfs/buffs. At this point, we haven't even really developed half of the cast. Asking to change the balance of a game that actually did undergo playtesting by fighting game experts (such as Clockwork and Seth) because we can't be bothered to learn how the game works is really counter-intuitive.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Please make Raiden's combos slower or gain less AP

Dec 17, 2012

Fromundaman wrote:

Strife93 wrote:

Fromundaman wrote:
Well, I've played against some of the people constantly **bleep** about these characters, then played people who are actually good with the characters. In every case player skill and matchup knowledge determined the outcome of the match. When you're playing a bad matchup, switch to a favorable one. Basically, this is a fighting game created with a fighting game mentality, and those complaining about it are 90% of the time casual players who don't try to play it competitively, but still want to skew the competitive balance.

That being said, I see you complain about characters a lot. Add me sometime and try these OP tactics, and we'll see if there isn't an effective way around them, okay?

I don't play with people I don't like, I made that very apparent to Asis. And I wouldn't use OP tactics, that's not my bag.


So you're just going to keep crying that everything is OP but refuse to play against anyone that disagrees/AKA could refute that claim?

All I'm saying, though I am getting a bit tired of saying it so often, is that this game is still very very young. There is a lot we haven't discovered, and calling for buffs and nerfs now is NOT a good idea. Let's develop more of the characters first. For example, people currently crying over Raiden (Which we're moving onto FP now I think), who are you playing? I am willing to bet a lot it's not Cole, who as I saw today is actually pretty good at the matchup. FP does well in that matchup too, as does Sweet Tooth from what I hear and it seems like Jak would too.

Now if you're playing someone like BD (My main), well Raiden is a very uphill matchup. Quite simply put, we should be figuring out ways around seemingly OP tactics first, then if after a few months we still can't find anything, then and only then start discussing nerfs/buffs. At this point, we haven't even really developed half of the cast. Asking to change the balance of a game that actually did undergo playtesting by fighting game experts (such as Clockwork and Seth) because we can't be bothered to learn how the game works is really counter-intuitive.

Stopped reading right here. You might want to pick some friendlier words, buddy. You can't keep repeating something to make it true, and I haven't been that hostile towards Raiden. All I said is that SB is right for looking into Drake, Kratos, and Raiden. (Which they ARE doing. regardless.) If you must know, I main PaRappa and Sly gives me the most trouble.

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Sackboy
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Re: Please make Raiden's combos slower or gain less AP

Dec 17, 2012

No offence but while i think their are some Raiden players in the thread who are making good points i find others making horrible points. For example it's very possible to beat a Raiden with Jak and even Ratchet and i should know since my mains are Jak,Ratchet,Sly,Parappa and Good Cole. Yes Kratos needs to be fixed as well but i'll say it again. Just because there is ways of being able to beat a character does not change the fact that they are OP. I beat 2 or 3 Kratos as Sly but still Kratos is OP. Also just because Kratos is OP too does not mean that Raiden is not. Fair enough Kratos should have been the one to be fixed first since he has been OP since the public beta. But still Raiden is OP.

PS All-Stars Battle Royale Mains: Sly,Jak,Ratchet,PaRappa,Kat,Good Cole,Raiden.
Kingdom Hearts FTW!
Moveset ideas:Ty the Tasmanian Tiger-http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-All-Stars-Battle/Ty-the-Tasmanian-Tiger-moveset/m-p/39916477
Sora-http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-All-Stars-Battle/Sora-Kingdom-Hearts-moveset/m-p/39923329
Crash Bandicoot-http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-All-Stars-Battle/Crash-Bandicoot-moveset/m-p/40043417
Spyro-http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-All-Stars-Battle/Spyro-The-Dragon-Moveset/m-p/42628521

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Gaming Beast
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Re: Please make Raiden's combos slower or gain less AP

[ Edited ]
Dec 17, 2012

ryannumber3gamer wrote:

No offence but while i think their are some Raiden players in the thread who are making good points i find others making horrible points. For example it's very possible to beat a Raiden with Jak and even Ratchet and i should know since my mains are Jak,Ratchet,Sly,Parappa and Good Cole. Yes Kratos needs to be fixed as well but i'll say it again. Just because there is ways of being able to beat a character does not change the fact that they are OP. I beat 2 or 3 Kratos as Sly but still Kratos is OP. Also just because Kratos is OP too does not mean that Raiden is not. Fair enough Kratos should have been the one to be fixed first since he has been OP since the public beta. But still Raiden is OP.


How exactly do you decide who is OP though? I mean the same thing can be said in reverse.
What I'm saying doesn't even apply to whether or not you win the match, it's simply playing against the character and learning what options you can use with one character to shut down the options of another. In that respect, my observation has been that Raiden feels OP with certain characters but doesn't do very well against others, specifically those who can stay off of the ground AND beat him in the air like Cole or FP. I've played a great number of them, some who were better players and beat me and some that didn't but this seemed to remain true. So why exactly should we say he's OP? Because he rapes some matchups? In that case Sweet Tooth is OP because he makes Big Daddy useless.



Oh and Strife, you attacked me first. I was replying to the OP then responded to what you said.
I mean, what exactly was the point of disagreeing with me if you weren't debating the validity of my statement?

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First Son
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Re: Please make Raiden's combos slower or gain less AP

Dec 17, 2012

if they are working on raiden they might as well be working on kratos also because he is a cheap **bleep** 

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Sackboy
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Re: Please make Raiden's combos slower or gain less AP

Dec 17, 2012

You can tell if a character is overpowered if for example like Sackboy he can just hide in a corner and spam cakes (He can't anyone, he's been fixed.)  For example Kratos can keep spaming square and he has a huge AP gain from his attacks. Both him and Raiden can pull off giant combos.

 

 

PS All-Stars Battle Royale Mains: Sly,Jak,Ratchet,PaRappa,Kat,Good Cole,Raiden.
Kingdom Hearts FTW!
Moveset ideas:Ty the Tasmanian Tiger-http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-All-Stars-Battle/Ty-the-Tasmanian-Tiger-moveset/m-p/39916477
Sora-http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-All-Stars-Battle/Sora-Kingdom-Hearts-moveset/m-p/39923329
Crash Bandicoot-http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-All-Stars-Battle/Crash-Bandicoot-moveset/m-p/40043417
Spyro-http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-All-Stars-Battle/Spyro-The-Dragon-Moveset/m-p/42628521

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Gaming Beast
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Re: Please make Raiden's combos slower or gain less AP

[ Edited ]
Dec 17, 2012

ryannumber3gamer wrote:

You can tell if a character is overpowered if for example like Sackboy he can just hide in a corner and spam cakes (He can't anyone, he's been fixed.)  For example Kratos can keep spaming square and he has a huge AP gain from his attacks. Both him and Raiden can pull off giant combos.

 

 


But to use the Sackboy example, he was easy to beat then too. In fact he can still do all of the same things, it just takes longer to do it now. That just means that in FFA you can just ignore him now. The only real problem he had before was that people ignored him enough to let him get level 3 in FFA. In 1v1 and 2v2 I never saw a Sackboy who just purely camped get to level 3.


Don't get me wrong, the low low AP requirements on his supers were stupid and needed to change, and all in all I'm not too upset with the change, but he was beatable before, and he had some really horrendous matchups (Big Daddy made Sackboy sad, as did Sly I'm told.). I mean, should we be nerfing the Coles too then? If I want to, I can go hide in the corner and send a barrage of projectiles out. FP can just keep sending knights and fireballs. Ratchet can set up a fence and spam from behind it or play runaway while firing the bouncing projectiles at the ground and little people at you. Jak can constantly run away and shoot you. Spike can sit back in the corner behind a wall of bananas and send projectiles out all day. Raiden can use lightning grenades and the diagonal lightning to keep you out then shoot you from across the stage. Hell even Sir Dan could sit in the corner and spam if he wants (That axe is godlike)!

This is all a question of playstyle. Almost every character has the tools to camp the corner, and almost every character has the tools to stop someone from camping the corner, or spamming a single move over and over again. These are not really good indicators of OP characters. Positive matchups against the cast, moves that straight up win against 90% of the moves in the game and/or something that literally breaks the mechanics of the game are indicators of an OP character (Mind you I just listed 3 qualities of Metaknight in Brawl to use as an example. 2 of the 3 also apply to Dark Pheonix from Vanilla MVC3. As of right now I have yet to see them apply to any character in this game.)

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Please make Raiden's combos slower or gain less AP

Apr 15, 2013
Raiden's fine, if you are complaining that he's too fast then their is nothing to be done about it because Raiden is just a fast character and that's it.

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Re: Please make Raiden's combos slower or gain less AP

Apr 15, 2013
All of you shutup, Raiden is fine, get better...

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