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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: Not all Slys are bad...

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Dec 27, 2012

Sly is way OP.  The only people who deny this "FACT" is people who suck with everyone but Sly.   There are some good Sly players, that's true, but the fact that there are better Sly players out there doesn't change the fact that he's more overpowered than Sackboy was.


I'll explain a little bit and go into detail.  I'm not going to go into all of his attacks and every way you can use his attacks against every character, only some of them.  I'm not going to teach you how to play as a character you think you're good with.      

 

People who say he's not overpowered try to make arguments that he can't dodge specials.  I'll debunk that argument right now.  He can't dodge "some" specials in the conventional way, but he can dodge every special that everyone else can.  Kratos level three gets mentioned a lot.  So he can't air dodge Kratos' level three O attack, but he can still dodge it by up/forward triangle when Kratos fires it off.  Even if the argument that he can't dodge holds water, there's the fact that he can go invisible on most specials and save his life just by that alone. 

 

Then there's the fact that you can see Sly while he's invisible.  Unlike the Sly player, people who are playing other characters, even other Sly's are going to have one main focus.  Their own character.  First and foremost you're going to want to make sure you're focused on number one.  Then you have to also focus on the other three characters.  It's easy to lose focus of him when you have to focus on other characters and he's not your main focus.  It's especially hard in the larger stages where while the viewing area gets larger, Sly becomes more invisible, where if Sly and all the other characters are jumbled together, he's more visible(don't argue with this as it's common sense, involving pixels and such.  A smaller Sly means less pixels but tthey have to still keep how he looks and still retain the invisible look.)

 

Sly's moveset is ridiculous.  Not just forward triangle, although that attack is easily one of his best, but his entire moveset.  He's all around the best character. 

 

Square square.  If attacking anyone in the back.  Sly's neutral Square square drains 20AP, unless they don't have 20 AP then it drains whatever they have and Sly only gets that amount.  This attack can be paired with his devastating neutral o, his counter, or his up triangle teleport.

 

His up triangle teleport and why it's better than Spike's.  Up triangle without hitting left or right if you're in a certain range will always teleport behind the opponent with Sly facing that direction.  Even if the opponent is in the air and Sly is on the ground. 

 

As I've said before.  Sly's counter is devastating.  Far better than any other charactters.  The time you can be attacked before you recover from using it is much shorter than any other characters.  It also places you behind the opponent to not only gain AP but steal 20AP from the opponent.

 

The noob players and even some good players bread and butter.  Forward triangle.  The speed on start up of this attack, the AP gain, the recovery time.  Everything on this attack makes it one of his best attacks.  Certain characters cannot counter this by guarding then doing an attack.  Certain characters don't have fast enough attacks to take priority over this attack.  If that wasn't enough, if the player blocks(or get hit, doesn't matter,) the recovery on this is so fast that Sly can move, jump, use an attack, whatever, in mid air. 

 

I'll use Parappa as an example.  Against a noob Sly, there are only two ways that Parappa can guard then hit the opponent coming from a electric roll.  Forward triangle immediately after the block, or neutral o just before the Sly lands.  Against a good Sly player, those two counters are impossible since Sly recovers in the air before landing.  Against a Parappa who lets up his guard after the ground forward square, he probably wouldn't expect an air forward square in such a short time and will get you a free 30 AP.  If by some chance he guards again, who cares, you got 15AP from each guard and you'll land on the ground and be able to pull off a forward triangle before Parappa can use any of his attacks.  If you don't want to do that you can do the air teleport either away from Parappa, protecting you from any possible counterattack he might have, neutral up triangle and teleport behind, allowing you to grab if he's still guarding or neutral square square if he attacks to steal 20AP, or air teleport behind Parappa if you would feel more comfortable making your escape that way.  Another option after a blocking forward triangle is to hit neutral o to counter any counterattack that's incoming after the block.

 

Sly's up O.  Another one of his better attacks, although this is against certain characters only.   This attack is so good that it makes Radec useless.  Literally.  The only attacks of Radec's that will work on Sly with this attack is melee attacks, his flame thrower, electric attacks, and explosions from the bomb attacks.  Now you'd wonder why this one would make Radec useless, so I'll explain.  This attack places Sly in a ducking state.  He's also a small character.  Every attack that Radec uses except for his jumping neutral square, and bombs can't hit a small character while they're ducking.  So anyone who uses small characters, duck against Radec.  Sly's dynamite takes it one step further since Radec's bombs will also bounce off of him.  The only time a bomb can hit Sly is if it explodes a foot away but the bomb itself doesn't touch him.  If it touches him it's Sly's bomb.

 

Sly's dynamite isn't only good against Radec though.  It's extremely effective against Spike and reflect his banana's and electric balls, Jak and reflect just about everything, including his down o.  Jak's down o can hit Sly while he's in dynamite if it's charged up, Jak is in air, and the very outer edge of it hits Sly.  If Jak's down o special hits Sly at all in any other situation, Sly receives the AP from hitting Jak and whoever else Jak hit with the special.  Every attack Ratchet does except his square attacks, neutral triangle, forward o, and down o are countered.   

 

As I've said.  I've went into plenty of detail, but I'm not going to go into detail about  every situation, every attack, etc, telling you tricks on how to play as a character that you probably main.  But also, these are only the attacks and what their effectiveness is.  It also shows how effective these attacks are.  But if you don't know the characters, don't know who to use it on, when to use it, etc, it's not going to be as effective as repeatedly spamming forward triangle.  However, Sly has the best attacks from other characters and the versions Sly has are far more useful.  Up triangle with Sly is far better than Spikes, neutral O is the best counter, up o is a far better reflect attack than every other characters making Sir Dan's shield look especially crappy.

 

Kratos may be one of the most overpowered characters in the game, but a good player using anyone can beat a good Kratos.  A lot of characters would stand no chance playing against a good Sly.  Fact.    

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Not all Slys are bad...

Dec 27, 2012
@kupomogli I'm not a Sly user and I don't think he is op, so it would seem not only Sly users deny he is op.
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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: Not all Slys are bad...

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Dec 27, 2012

"Sly is way OP.  The only people who deny this "FACT" is people who suck with everyone but Sly."

 

@TwistedAvenger

 

I didn't say anything about being Sly players.  I said people who suck with everyone but Sly.  You may or may not have played as him.  You probably suck as everyone else.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Not all Slys are bad...

Dec 27, 2012
Ok really your statement implies that your talking about Sly players. I'm average with Sly, and I'm pretty good with Ratchet and Drake my mains and can do good with most of the roster I don't suck with everyone else
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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Not all Slys are bad...

Dec 27, 2012
Kupo you spent way too long wasting your breath. Sly isn't as Op you think, and your arguments are bogus. Teleporting through Kratos level three O and and air dodging it is the same thing. Big Daddy can do that with ease. And if a sly is invisible the whole game I'm betting he's not getting any AP or he's trying to set up a lvl 1. And another thing, the camera will pan out when sly is in the corner, zoom in when he comes closer to the brawl. Nothing to do with pixels lol. And so what, that's his character.

And I don't main sly, I main Radec. And a good sly is Defibetly a headache but you forgot to mention throws. He cant parry those so no, radec and his moveset arent useless in 1v1. And saying fact at the end of a sentance doesnt make it a fact.

A lot of characters wouldnt stand a chance going up against a good anybody in this roster. Fact.
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Splicer
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Re: Not all Slys are bad...

[ Edited ]
Dec 27, 2012

Kupomogli

 

You seem to have a very strong opinion on your sly "facts" but I am going to have to respectfully disagree with your statement that sly is "overpowered". Sackboy was the definition of overpowered in my book, from my experience playing against plenty of sackboys pre-nerf, they literally all had the same exact play style from blue to black belts, and it was very easy to play this way. There were a few exceptions but they were very far and very few in between. You could spam with sackboy and it could be somewhat effective even at higher level gameplay. With sly, if you try and spam against anybody who is somewhat decent, you will get steam rolled over. That is why I would say he is a strong character when played by higher leveled players, and fairly sub-par when played by less experienced players.

In order to be played well you need quick reactions and a good understanding of what other characters moves are. There are a few moves in this game that can go through a sly counter (big daddy forward triangle goes straight through sly) and because he lacks a block and roll, if you do happen to time your counter poorly when playing sly, you leave a very wide window of opportunity open for your opponents.

Yes, he does have very strong moves and some very good supers, but if you play against sly enough you can learn how to beat him.

I do not mean to sound condescending in any way, but in case you did not know, you can throw somebody when they counter, and you can dodge sly's electric roll by rolling yourself.

Against a spamming sly who is spamming those moves, it is easy to deal with them because they are predicable. It's the players who are actually good and utilize his entire skill set to its full potential that you have to look out for.

His level 1 super is incredibly strong and difficult to knock out of, but it can be dodged quite easily once you understand it. I'm more of a 2v2 player, but in FFA, pay attention to his super meter. If you notice that sly has a level 1 super and is invisible, do not start any big combos on another player, or allow them to combo you. Be ready for his super. Standing with your back to a wall puts you at a huge advantage against his level 1 as you can easily roll through Murray if he aims the super towards the wall.

Sly is best played tactfully, and in order to beat him, you cannot just spam your abilities on him like any other character and expect to win so easily. A good way to learn to play better against a sly would be playing against the computer on maxed setting. That's how I learned to dodge his super better, how to dodge his attacks easier, when to attack, when to throw and whatnot.

Practice makes perfect, and I wish you the best of luck in your future All Stars endeavors.

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Not all Slys are bad...

Dec 27, 2012
The only area sly is OP in IMO is the fact he can counter projectiles and appear directly behind you. Everything else is fine.

Sully

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Re: Not all Slys are bad...

Dec 27, 2012
@kupomogli I don't even play Sly and I ranked him as 2nd bottom of the tier list for 1vs1. Sly can't block so can't avoid characters and pressure with good tech chase game like Sweet Tooth and Big Daddy. He can't dodge so any character with a super setupd that everyone in the cast can avoid Sly can't so things like Sir Daniels UP Square > Level 1 will guarentee to hit Sly but everyone else can dodge it.

Invisibility is useless for 1vs1 in particular since the camera pans to the position of two players so his opponent always knows where he is on the screem and there's no other players to be a distraction.

Forward triangle is horrible when blocked and any Sly just randomly throwing it out is going to get punished for it.

If you focus purely on your own characters position on screen and NO ONE elses you are going to get yourself completely stomped no questions asked. The only reason some people complain about Sly is the same reason they complained about Radec in the beta, everyone ignored him and refused to attack him and then wondered how he got his level 3 when no one attacked him or tried to stop him.

The only redeeming thing about Sly is his level 1 not being able to be stopped by regular attacks but it's incredibly easy to dodge, has very few way to practically combo into it and Sly has some very poor meter gain to be able to build up for his supers.

In 2vs2 and FFA Sly has an advantage of players not noticing wherre he is and that's it, if players focus on him and realise you can still see him when he's invisible then he's screwed.
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Not all Slys are bad...

Dec 27, 2012
Cal, that is false. Sly has all of the air and ground recovery options that other characters do. He can dodge Sir Dan's set-up just like anyone else.

Furthermore, Sly can counter for a guaranteed level 1. Side Circle is also a confirm if done correctly. If Triangle lands, it also confirms a level 1. To say that he cannot confirm is entirely false.
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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Not all Slys are bad...

Dec 27, 2012
@Dude5059 No I was reffering to how waiting for the initial air recovery from up square then leaves it so that Sly cannot dodge it at all. He can't manually dodge it since he just goes invisible.

And counter into level 1 only works on the ground, this does no good against characters with strong air game and or projectiles like Spike, Fat Princess or Sir Daniel.
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