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Jan 01 2013
By: GaleDaWindMasta Wastelander 587 posts
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My last argument for those who defend the use of kill confirms.

161 replies 725 views Edited Jan 1, 2013

I'm pretty much completely done with dealing with all these people. So, those of you who defend kill confirms or constantly spout "block, dodge, and jump", just . . . . shut up for a second and ask yourself this question.

 

Who's Level 1 setup is easier to defend against? PaRappa's or Raiden's? 

 

When you think about the answer to this question and why the answer is what it is you might just have a good chance of figuring out why so many people are against it.

 

That's all I want to say. I hope to not respond any further.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: My last argument for those who defend the use of kill confirms.

Jan 1, 2013
it's been confirmed to be cheap, so there's no defending it
it's ruining online matches (especially rank)
"Say Pam, ever hung from a ceiling fan while your partner sat on a paint mixer"
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I Only Post Everything
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Re: My last argument for those who defend the use of kill confirms.

[ Edited ]
Jan 1, 2013

The game would be a complete and utter random mess without them and the only characters who would succeed are those capable of getting gaurenteed kills with their supers. Who'd want to watch a competetive battle where it was just two players working for level 3's the whole time? Especially when some characters have supers that are just plain bad or not as useful as other ones but at least can combo into it (Sweet Tooth's level 1)

That being said, I don't think hit confirms into supers should be removed but what they should do is balance out how many on average a character should have. Raiden and Fat Princess have about 4 or 5 simple ones and even more if you expand into combos and Raiden in particular can kill from his throw.

On the flip side some character get maybe one or NO practical way to land their level 1 like Sir Daniel and PaRappa.

If they are going to keep hit confirms in the game to prevent it being so stale and a random mess at least they should make all characters have ONE reliable one that at the same time at least has a certain amount of effort to land and not have one character with 5 or 6 and another who only has 50/50 chance setups.

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Fender Bender
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Re: My last argument for those who defend the use of kill confirms.

Jan 1, 2013
we really should email Superbot again regarding this...
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Survivor
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Re: My last argument for those who defend the use of kill confirms.

Jan 1, 2013
"it's ruining online matches (especially rank)"

This can't be an argument.

Weather the moves are cheap or not, I won't argue. But you can't expect players who are trying to show the world they are the best from using the best tools in their arsenal to win.
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Fender Bender
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Re: My last argument for those who defend the use of kill confirms.

[ Edited ]
Jan 1, 2013

CalDW19940 wrote:

The game would be a complete and utter random mess without them and the only characters who would succeed are those capable of getting gaurenteed kills with their supers. Who'd want to watch a competetive battle where it was just two players working for level 3's the whole time? Especially when some characters have supers that are just plain bad or not as useful as other ones but at least can combo into it (Sweet Tooth's level 1)

That being said, I don't think hit confirms into supers should be removed but what they should do is balance out how many on average a character should have. Raiden and Fat Princess have about 4 or 5 simple ones and even more if you expand into combos and Raiden in particular can kill from his throw.

On the flip side some character get maybe one or NO practical way to land their level 1 like Sir Daniel and PaRappa.

If they are going to keep hit confirms in the game to prevent it being so stale and a random mess at least they should make all characters have ONE reliable one that at the same time at least has a certain amount of effort to land and not have one character with 5 or 6 and another who only has 50/50 chance setups.


If you actually learned how to use  your character's super properly, you wouldn't need to rely on skilless kill confirms.

 

As a jak main, i have to use my level 1s wisely and activate them at the best possible moment. Like when my oppenent leaves an opening or when they try to attack me from the air.

 

you cant expect a kill by activating them at random moments just because someone is next to you.

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Wastelander
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Re: My last argument for those who defend the use of kill confirms.

Jan 1, 2013

CalDW19940 wrote:
The game would be a complete and utter random mess without them (False) and the only characters who would succeed are those capable of getting gaurenteed kills with their supers. (Except for those who have kill confirms now, no one really is capable of getting guaranteed kills with their supers except for maybe Sly and -- at a stretch -- Good Cole) Who'd want to watch a competetive battle where it was just two players working for level 3's the whole time? (Who knows? It probably won't happen as often as you're exaggeration is trying to make it out to be, though. No one is fool enough to rely purely on their Level 3 in a 1v1) Especially when some characters have supers that are just plain bad or not as useful as other ones but at least can combo into it (Sweet Tooth's level 1) (People can land his super just fine without having to combo into it with a kill confirm. It only requires more skill and catching your opponent off-guard/when their vulnerable. As it should be with all Level 1s)

That being said, I don't think hit confirms into supers should be removed but what they should do is balance out how many on average a character should have. Raiden and Fat Princess have about 4 or 5 simple ones and even more if you expand into combos and Raiden in particular can kill from his throw. (That's your opinion, but even characters who even only have one, like Sweet Tooth, have such a large advantage over those who don't)

On the flip side some character get maybe one or NO practicle way to land their level 1 like Sir Daniel and PaRappa. (Exactly. I believe it should stay that way, too. Level 1s should require some risk)

If they are going to keep hit confirms in the game to prevent it being so stale (This implies that having kill confirms in the game doesn't make it stale. Seeing characters desperately spam the same moves just because they conveniently combo into their super isn't stale?) and a random mess (Seriously. Who's to say it won't become more tactical and intense? Like other fighting games? You don't know that it'll be a random mess, so stop assuming it will be) at least they should make all characters have ONE reliable one that at the same time at least has a certain amount of effort to land and not have one character with 5 or 6 and another who only has 50/50 chance setups.

 

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Wastelander
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Re: My last argument for those who defend the use of kill confirms.

Jan 1, 2013

Aylas_Hero wrote:
"it's ruining online matches (especially rank)"

This can't be an argument.

Weather the moves are cheap or not, I won't argue. But you can't expect players who are trying to show the world they are the best from using the best tools in their arsenal to win.

Too bad it is. Kill Confirms skew the leaderboards with people who spam kill confirms to win. People didn't use skill to climb their way to the top (I'm speaking in general terms here, of course). They used the cheapest way because, of course, it works. 

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: My last argument for those who defend the use of kill confirms.

Jan 1, 2013
@khknight While that is true, Jak actually has a fast super with good priority and tends to avoid being hit out of it because of where his hurtbox goes in the air. But what of the likes of Big Daddy, Nariko or Sackboy who's supers are slow, easily stopped, have practicly no hit confirms that will work on all characters outside the corner?

Clearly these characters are using their supers properly when appropriate it's just how often the appropriate time appears is too little.

Characters with hitconfirms to expand on how they can punish their opponent with very mediocre supers is a valid way to use them and hardly skilless. That's like saying Sweet Tooth should not be using his shotgun just because no other character has an equally good knockdown move like that and it's key to his whole playstyle.

I'm fine with hit confirms and they do require skill to be used to punish an opponents mistake just as much as characters who can't hit confirm

The problem is that some characters have both an incredibly GOOD supers with GOOD multiple hit confirms (Raiden)
Some have less useful BAD supers but GOOD hit confirms (Heihachi)
Some have GOOD supers with less useful bad hitconfirms (Ratchet)
And a LOT have very BAD supers aswell as BAD or no hitconfirms (Nariko)

What needs fixing is having more balance so there's more characters in the middle option like Heihachi and Ratchet than there is at either extreme like Raiden or Nariko.
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Fender Bender
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Re: My last argument for those who defend the use of kill confirms.

Jan 1, 2013

GaleDaWindMasta wrote:

CalDW19940 wrote:


If they are going to keep hit confirms in the game to prevent it being so stale (This implies that having kill confirms in the game doesn't make it stale. 

 

 

you know, i clearly remember superbot in their evo interview saying "combing into supers would make the game stale"

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