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Sackboy
Registered: 11/09/2012
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Re: Jump spam needs to be addressed

Jan 27, 2013
"It soo funny when I tell them use another character that aren't the Coles, Raiden, Sly or Fat P. and they end up losing." This I don't quite understand, so it's funny when you make someone use a character that they're not familiar with then they lose? Hmm I just assumed it would be more rewarding to win against their main... I bet you pick a different character than you're used to to make it fair, correct? Smiley Very Happy
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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 08/12/2012
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Re: Jump spam needs to be addressed

[ Edited ]
Jan 27, 2013

TylerJL23 wrote:
All I ever hear is people complaining about Kratos. Every game it makes you get fed up because Kratos should NOT be spamming. His combos are way more effective. And even when you use combos involving circle and triangle you still hear "Look at that square square square" My favorite character is Kratos. So I'm going to use him. I get annoyed when I find one trying to spam him and make it my goal to slap them back and forth across the map. To each his own. Good cole's always give me a run for my money, am I going to start accusing them of being Overpowered or no one's favorite character? No, I'd rather actually take responsibility if I lose and change my strategy against them. Something that many people fail to do, but hey it's much easier to start screaming "nerf! nerf! nerf too powerful!" The community screams nerf whenever they run into something that beats them. I really honestly, jumping spam?! Yes I will call your skills into question if you say something that ridiculous.

The guy that made the post has a point you know, even though he didn't explain it right. All he means by "jump spamming" is that there are attacks that if done in the air and close to the ground have totally no recovery, sure there are strategies against this but this shouldn't even happen in a good balanced fighting game.

 

For example in SSBBrawl Falco uses that gun of his in the air and after shooting, if you stop before touching the ground he puts his gun back in his pocket and that doesn't allow you to keep jumping and shooting too quickly, the only thing you can do is to not stop shooting and he will keep shooting even if you touch the ground. Not like with Jak that if you shoot close to the ground you have to press to shoot again when you touch the ground. <-( -__- )

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Sackboy
Registered: 07/28/2012
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Re: Jump spam needs to be addressed

Jan 27, 2013
Jumping makes throws useless. You can 't grab someone out of the air so all these terrible players who keep trying to grab me will have to accept losing from my level 3.
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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Jump spam needs to be addressed

Jan 27, 2013

TylerJL23 wrote:
"It soo funny when I tell them use another character that aren't the Coles, Raiden, Sly or Fat P. and they end up losing." This I don't quite understand, so it's funny when you make someone use a character that they're not familiar with then they lose? Hmm I just assumed it would be more rewarding to win against their main... I bet you pick a different character than you're used to to make it fair, correct? Smiley Very Happy

No their main is actually also the other character not the Coles, Raiden, Sly or Fat P. They just use them because they know how broken they sometimes are. And NO, I stay with my character, you assumed wrong. What I meant by all that I said is that sometimes the ones that say they're skilled, main sometimes 2 characters and that when I tell them to use the other one they go "I can beat you with my Ratchet anyways" and then they lose, and its funny to see that all their "skill" actually rely on spamming  a broken or sometimes OP character. I only give credit to the ones that actually know how to use all of the attacks with their character and make amazing combos. "We must never assume that which is incapable of proof." Smiley Very Happy
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Gaming Beast
Registered: 11/22/2012
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Re: Jump spam needs to be addressed

[ Edited ]
Jan 27, 2013

Okay, a couple things before I give my own thoughts on the subject:

-Gale, you know while you accuse people of never making good arguments, you really seem to spend more time trolling than actually saying anything of merit.

-Tyler, stop being so aggressive, especially when you obviously misinterpreted the subject of this thread. Calm down, reread the OP and figure out what we're trying to talk about.



@The OP:

Jumping is indeed a very strong tactic in this game, much like Chicken blocking in Marvel. It is beatable, but it is very hard and honestly ridiculously difficult against good players, especially good FP players, without frame data to know how you can punish and when. Luckily enough, Superbot has actually given us that frame data&colon;

http://sonichurricane.com/?p=7272&cpage=1#comment-7744

It's in the comments section, but for the sake of simplicity, I'll copy it in here:





"Regarding jump landing recovery, we do have universal rules and they fall into two categories. If you simply jump without attacking or if you land after your attack has recovered completely or if you land while air evading, you have only 1 frame of landing recovery. You can’t walk/run, jump, roll, attack, or super during this frame, but you can block.

On the other hand, if you’re in the middle of an air attack when you land, your landing recovery is extended to 5 frames. You can’t attack, super, or jump during this period. You can’t walk/run or super for another 7 frames (meaning 12 frames total). However, you can block immediately upon landing, and you can roll on the following frame.

What this means is that you can air evade onto Sweet Tooth’s D+Circle mine and block it instantly, but you can’t roll without setting it off. It also means that you can’t air evade into the middle of an active super and roll to safety, because that 1 frame of landing block will get you killed.

Obviously there are a few exceptions – such as attacks that continue onto ground (Radec’s D+Circle flamethrower), chargeable moves with windup ground transitions (Sackboy’s F+Triangle), attacks with unique ground recovery (Nariko’s F+Circle rocket), and dive/bounce moves (Razor Claws air attack). But these all have intuitive behavior on a case-by-case basis. Generally their unique built-in recovery is much longer than the default jump attack landing would’ve been.

Our principal goal with these rules was to add a little extra recovery to air attacks. In a game like this, it’s quite easy to mitigate recovery time by simply performing air attacks near the ground after a quick jump. However, we didn’t want to take away too many defensive options in the process."



Basically, while most ending lag is gone, they still have some ending lag when they do an aerial. However, airdodging into the ground is almost completely safe in this game, and if you were to airdodge into the ground and buffer a roll, you would have 1 frame of vulnerability, and during that frame you can still block, meaning only supers and grabs could hit you.
Part of the reason FP is so good is because using her minions leaves her in neutral stance, which makes aerial minions almost completely safe.

Because of this you have to rely on grabs, tech chases and forcing early airdodges. Characters like BD, EC, ST, FP, etc who can get you into a hard knockdown then prevent you from doing jumps on wakeup are very good against people who jump a lot. Lingering hitboxes that can beat airdodges are good too.

The other thing to remember is that they can't airdodge the moment they jump (Don't have that frame data atm unfortunately), which means you can hit them at the beginning of a jump, but you cannot grab them as the game considers you airborne on frame 1.

That being said, if a grab box is out of someone who is landing, they will always get grabbed unless they hit you with an attack first.



I hope that helps.

 
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Uncharted Territory
Registered: 12/28/2012
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Re: Jump spam needs to be addressed

Jan 27, 2013
Lol I use GCole & Iknow he'a "cheap" enano, but does that make me a bad player, I dont think so. I'vebeen planing on maining him before I got the game & stuck to that. I'm not bad with him either (I know people that will vouch for me), my goal is to be the best GCole so I'm ging to master him and all his combos/KCs/MUs.

But thats the only "op" character I use. I second Sweet Tooth & also use Nariko/Spike. So I do use other people that aren't "op". I just stick with GCole because I loved his playstyle BEFORE I even purchased this game.

I'm not going to switch mains because I figure out he has exploits or becomes overused or is hard to master. I'm a GCole player and I'm sticking with that title. But you can fight my other "non-op" characters anytime(:
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Jump spam needs to be addressed

Jan 27, 2013
Bt didn't we fight at PSL??
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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Jump spam needs to be addressed

[ Edited ]
Jan 27, 2013

Yeah I fought against you but when we did you didn't main Cole, and if you do main him now I know you already know a lot about him and you use him nicely so you don't fall in that people that use the characters cuz they know they cheap, you fall in the people I I give credit too cuz you know him and you play nice with him... Smiley Wink

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Jump spam needs to be addressed

Jan 27, 2013
Wow thanks bro(:
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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Jump spam needs to be addressed

Jan 28, 2013
Jump spamming? *sigh*
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