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Gaming Beast
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Re: It takes no skill to kill confirm

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Feb 4, 2013

One thing that I've seen kill confirmers do online very consistently is that once they keep failing at their kill confirms (people keep air camping or they keep getting hit out of their Level 1's), they immediately go for Level 3's.

 

What that basically means is that when they want to get the easiest kills possible, they would rather choose a Level 1 before even thinking of a Level 3. You can't tell me that there's nothing wrong with a mechanic in the game that allows for a Level ONE to be easier to pull off than a Level THREE...

 

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Wastelander
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Re: It takes no skill to kill confirm

Feb 4, 2013

IceColdKilla44 wrote:

One thing that I've seen kill confirmers do online very consistently is that once they keep failing at their kill confirms (people keep air camping or they keep getting hit out of their Level 1's), they immediately go for Level 3's.

 

What that basically means is that when they want to get easy kills, they would rather choose a Level 1 before even thinking of a Level 3. You can't tell me that there's nothing wrong with a mechanic in the game that allows for a Level ONE to be easier to pull off than a Level THREE...

 


Exactly. This is part of the reason why I keep saying that SuperBot made a big mistake allowing Kill Confirms (rather than plain setups) to be a thing.

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Gaming Beast
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Re: It takes no skill to kill confirm

Feb 4, 2013

GaleDaWindMasta wrote:

Exactly. This is part of the reason why I keep saying that SuperBot made a big mistake allowing Kill Confirms (rather than plain setups) to be a thing.


It's something that I thought I should mention, because I'm not only speaking from my own experience. Even people on this board who defend kill confirms mention this pattern, but for some reason don't ask "why" the other play would do this. 

 

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First Son
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Re: It takes no skill to kill confirm

[ Edited ]
Feb 4, 2013

IceColdKilla44 wrote:

One thing that I've seen kill confirmers do online very consistently is that once they keep failing at their kill confirms (people keep air camping or they keep getting hit out of their Level 1's), they immediately go for Level 3's.

 

What that basically means is that when they want to get easy kills, they would rather choose a Level 1 before even thinking of a Level 3. You can't tell me that there's nothing wrong with a mechanic in the game that allows for a Level ONE to be easier to pull off than a Level THREE...

 


what you didn't say:

1. lvl 1's garner less attention (not too many ppl will go for the grab if all you have is lvl 1)

2. lvl 1's come quicker

3. lvl 1's can be stacked (everyone knows it the best of us actually plan it) (a lvl 3 means start AP building all over again)

4. (And toro knows this best..) some characters can get the same amount of kills off of a lvl 1 that they will ever get from that lvl 3 that he just wasted so much AP on)

 

I'm sure I could add more but you get my point.


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Uncharted Territory
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Re: It takes no skill to kill confirm

Feb 4, 2013

DarkErazor wrote:

King_Cobra97 wrote:

Aylas_Hero wrote:

King_Cobra97 wrote:

Did you think we were talking about confirms the whole time? I was just talking in general. However I will explain why.

 

Currently most supers go like this:

 

1) Cheap and safe to use, 1-3 kills. No point in grabbing to get rid of.

 

2) Cost more than 1, safe to use, 1-3 kills. Mild grab loss.

 

3) Cost a lot, safe to use, 3-6 kills. Hardest to get because of grabs.

 

Level 1s seem the best. Why go for a 3 when a 1 is safe, the cheapest, and is safe from grabs, or even a 2 for that matter?

 

EDIT: changed the wording a bit, oh, and post 1,212! 

 

 


In a game with people at high levels, I've seen a lot of level 2 actually. When the game is really running that hard and close, you'd be surprised how hard it is to use that level 1 confirm. Sometimes, it's so impossible you give in and go to level 2, and sometimes it's even WORSE and you are forced to go to level 3 out of desperation, even a cinematic one just to get that kill. A lot of the top matches in my tournament get THAT close. 

 

A lot of the problems people face is in FFA. We have to remeber we have THREE game modes in this game, this game isn't ONLY FFA. I know level 3 should be the big thing in FFA but FFA just wont ever be an actual competitive game mode, there are too many variables. 2v2 and 1v1 are, and confirms while used aren't as easy to manage there. I admit it's an issue in FFA and doesn't make sense, but trying to totally balance based on FFA ruins the rest of the game. All game modes must be taken into account. Without confirms my 1v1 tournaments would have matches going for hours at a time and I'm serious about that. Throwing out a random super is MUCH to easy to avoid at a high level.


 

This is just laughable. What happened to using level 2s and 3s? People should use 1s smarter, use them when someone is getting pummeled or predict the moves and movements to catch them in your 1, instead of hurrdurr giga punch. This is how high level play should be (my opinion). 

What would happen if KCs were removed in all modes? 

I'd like to give you a little example, why kill confirms are needed. Imagine Dante and Jak in a 1v1. I know this is an extreme of what I am going to tell you, but I think it works best in getting my point accross. Will Dante ever be able to kill Jak with his level 1 or 2? Most likely not. So he'll have to go for level 3 at least twice in a 3-stock match. That takes forever and is very boring. On top of that, if Jak doesn't have to be afraid of Dante hit confirming him into level 1 or 2, he can do whatever he pleases to do, giving Dante a horrible time.


This is just exaggeration.

 

I haven't explained my stance on this matter well enough as it seems. I don't like level 1 KCs but level 2 KCs are fine to me since some like Sackboy's or Drake's are always going to land a kill in the hands of a competent player.

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Gaming Beast
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Re: It takes no skill to kill confirm

[ Edited ]
Feb 4, 2013

^

 

1. As they should. Level 1's are supposed to be very risky to pull off. I shouldn't have to be extremely defensive against you if all you have is a Level 1 that's very hard to pull off, and even easier for me to dodge.

 

2. Again, as they should. They're low in cost, but they're also high in risk. That's why being able to get them quickly isn't much of a problem.

 

3. Again, that ties into point #2. Two stacked Level 1's is still much riskier than One Level 3 for kills.

 

4. Getting 3 kills with a Level 1 is extremely situational, and much harder than doing it with a Level 3. 

 

None of those 4 points explain why it would make sense that a Level 1 can get kills more easily than a Level 3.

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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: It takes no skill to kill confirm

Feb 4, 2013

IceColdKilla44 wrote:

One thing that I've seen kill confirmers do online very consistently is that once they keep failing at their kill confirms (people keep air camping or they keep getting hit out of their Level 1's), they immediately go for Level 3's.

 

What that basically means is that when they want to get the easiest kills possible, they would rather choose a Level 1 before even thinking of a Level 3. You can't tell me that there's nothing wrong with a mechanic in the game that allows for a Level ONE to be easier to pull off than a Level THREE...

 


You basically stated that level 3s are easier to hit than level 1. Because if that wasn't the case, why should they change their strategies? They could just keep going for level 1s.

The Jak Archives:
http://allstararena.com/threads/the-jak-archives.449/
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Re: It takes no skill to kill confirm

[ Edited ]
Feb 4, 2013

King_Cobra97 wrote:

DarkErazor wrote:

King_Cobra97 wrote:


 

This is just laughable. What happened to using level 2s and 3s? People should use 1s smarter, use them when someone is getting pummeled or predict the moves and movements to catch them in your 1, instead of hurrdurr giga punch. This is how high level play should be (my opinion). 

What would happen if KCs were removed in all modes? 

I'd like to give you a little example, why kill confirms are needed. Imagine Dante and Jak in a 1v1. I know this is an extreme of what I am going to tell you, but I think it works best in getting my point accross. Will Dante ever be able to kill Jak with his level 1 or 2? Most likely not. So he'll have to go for level 3 at least twice in a 3-stock match. That takes forever and is very boring. On top of that, if Jak doesn't have to be afraid of Dante hit confirming him into level 1 or 2, he can do whatever he pleases to do, giving Dante a horrible time.


This is just exaggeration.

 

I haven't explained my stance on this matter well enough as it seems. I don't like level 1 KCs but level 2 KCs are fine to me since some like Sackboy's or Drake's are always going to land a kill in the hands of a competent player.


But is there really that big of a difference between level 1 and level 2 confirms? Going for a level 2 KC just shifts the problem to a later stage of the game. For some character it's still virtually impossible to hit someone with their lvl 1. And to return to my example that still means that Jak doesn't have to worry at all about Dante killing him until he has reached level 2.

The Jak Archives:
http://allstararena.com/threads/the-jak-archives.449/
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First Son
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Re: It takes no skill to kill confirm

Feb 4, 2013

what I'm saying is lvl 3's are the riskier choice.

 

Once you have lvl 3 yes kills are all but a certainty.

 

But people aiming for a lvl 3 have to either worry about running out time, running out of lives or not having scored enough kills.

 

Most people you come across playing this game are going to be attentive and as you draw near to that lvl 3 they will stall you at every turn.

 

If timed you not only have to worry about gathering enough AP in the allotted time but also whether or not it will matter by the time you get lvl 3 as one opponent will most assuredly have been racking up kills.

 

Kill limit, in most cases, places a tougher time constraint on your AP Building than the timed match itself.

 

Stock limit once everyone figures out you are going for that lvl 3 they know they can attack you and you won't make any attempt on their lives meaning they can set you up for kill after kill.


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Wastelander
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Re: It takes no skill to kill confirm

Feb 4, 2013

DarkErazor wrote:

IceColdKilla44 wrote:

One thing that I've seen kill confirmers do online very consistently is that once they keep failing at their kill confirms (people keep air camping or they keep getting hit out of their Level 1's), they immediately go for Level 3's.

 

What that basically means is that when they want to get the easiest kills possible, they would rather choose a Level 1 before even thinking of a Level 3. You can't tell me that there's nothing wrong with a mechanic in the game that allows for a Level ONE to be easier to pull off than a Level THREE...

 


You basically stated that level 3s are easier to hit than level 1. Because if that wasn't the case, why should they change their strategies? They could just keep going for level 1s.


^this. Your argument defeats itself because in the situation you give, you are implying that the lvl 1 KC is not easy, therefore making the lvl 3 the more viable option. Most if not all lvl 3s guarantee 1 or 2 kills at least

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