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Jan 26 2013
By: kupomogli Hekseville Citizen 345 posts
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In depth look at why the current block system makes the game even more unbalanced.

14 replies 322 views Edited Jan 26, 2013

Now even in 2v2 and FFA, some of what you do is 1v1 battles, so it expands on just 1v1 to what you do on 2v2 and FFA, but what I'll be descirbing is a 1v1 battle Raiden vs Evil Cole.  It doesn't matter too much what the stage is, just as long as it's not Dojo.  Even if it was Dojo, Evil Cole would still be the winner. 

 

This is why Playstation All Stars sucks as a fighter.  Raiden, an overpowered character, against Evil Cole, another overpowered character.  The battle is one sided in favor of Evil Cole.

 

So the stage we'll use is Hades/Patapon.  Evil Cole has to do nothing more than stay away from Raiden tossing bombs.  He's got great manueverability and double bomb is an amazing keep away ability.  As Raiden you can't do anything unless you chase him.  You can press neutral o and gain some AP at the exact moment a bomb hits you, but what else is that going to do other than give him the chance to throw another bomb or combo you?

 

Alright, so let's say that Evil Cole is on the ground and you do a short hop in the air and do the air dash.  The thing is is that even if he threw a bomb and you got through, his guard would already be up.  Your forward o attack would go through him and he'd just have to do forward square to speed the other direction and continue playing the keep away game.

 

By some chance you're at the exact distance away where you do the air dash and hit Evil Cole with it, still blocking, and then you grab him.  What?  Nothing, that's what.  Raiden can't combo from any of his grabs the way they are now.  It's highly improbable that you're going to be able to grab an Evil Cole that's zoning and playing the keep away game.

 

Once Evil Cole has his level one, he can still zone a medium distance until he can use his neutral o the moment you hit the ground and happen not to have rolled.  He can keep at a further distance to hope you do the air dash.  Black and use the special immediately after play.  This Evil Cole would have to know the distance of Raiden's dash well though and he'd more than likely get a special confirm.  Wait for Raiden to do down triangle and as soon as it hits your block, special confirm.  Or try to grab Raiden with an up grab and hit him with your special.

 

If you want to do it the easy way.  Just keep zoning Raiden and he has no chance.  He might get his level one by the time you get your level three and even if he does, he has no chance of hitting you with any of his hit confirms.

 

Because of how good his zoning is and the fact that guard is too powerful, a zoning/extreme turtling Evil Cole is an impossible 1v1 battle against Raiden, Dante, Sweet Tooth, Sir Dan, Heihachi, and Fat Princess(?.)

 

As more casual players leave and nothing more than the hardcore fanbase remains.  It'll be divided into two groups.  The pansies who turtle hard and the people who actually go on the offensive and don't turtle the entire time.  Depending on their skill level, the people who turtle are going to win.  If it's melee vs long range like Raiden vs Evil Cole, there's no chance at being grabbed.  If it's melee vs melee, the turtle player is going to be able to execute the grab faster if it requires it.

 

The ridiculous power of block brings the balance issues on this game to an all time low.  You guys were hand picked yet didn't notice a ridiculously obvious flaw such as this? 

 

If you're not going to impliment some sort of guard break meter.  Then atleast remove blocking altogether.  Everyone except Sly evade and roll only.  Oh, that's right, if you can't guard you'd be able to be spammed with an attack like Sweet Tooth's air downward shotgun and try rolling out of that one on wake up.  You will, but he'll just get you with the next one. 

 

If you want to fix some on the crappy balancing issues, start with something major like a guard break system.  You guys should have had one in the first place.  Make it like Super Smash Bros where hits reduce guard by a certain amount and holding block also reduces guard.  You slowly regenerate guard when not blocking or holding block.   

 

 

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Hekseville Citizen
Registered: 07/26/2011
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Re: In depth look at why the current block system makes the game even more unbalanced.

Jan 26, 2013
There... is... guardbreak in this game.
Just because a keepaway playstyle is hard to beat when going against certain characters doesn't mean that this game is unbalanced. It just means that you have to learn how to beat a keepaway playstyle. Or better yet, PICK ANOTHER CHARACTER.
How is guard to powerful? Really? That's not possible. Guard is GUARD. Keeps you safe from attacks. You can grab people, right? Certain characters have guard break, right? Come on now. Please stop complaining because you find a certain playstyle is really hard to beat.
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Fender Bender
Registered: 11/23/2012
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Re: In depth look at why the current block system makes the game even more unbalanced.

Jan 26, 2013
The OP still doesn't know a thing about this game.
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Splicer
Registered: 12/30/2012
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Re: In depth look at why the current block system makes the game even more unbalanced.

[ Edited ]
Jan 26, 2013

I actually agree with everyhting you said, OP. Well, I don't think this game is good for 1v1 for a lot of reasons, including the one you described, but that's beside the point.

 

Anyways, I thought Raiden was a overpowered before the patch, but mainly due to his good level 1 and 2 super attacks. If they were going to nerf him, they should have changed his supers or raised the cost of his level 1 super. Nerfing his ability to combo out of a grab is probably the worst thing they could have done as Raiden has nothing but melee moves, and anyone who knows what they're doing can just gaurd and punish against all of Raiden's close range attacks.

 

A gaurd break system would be a good idea. Another idea would be to allow all characters to start up a combo out of one of their throws. As it is now, grabs aren't very useful unless an opponent is saving up for level 3 (which Evil Cole players rarely ever do).

 

*edit* Forgot to mention, if a guard break system is implemented, it should work like the one in Smash Bros. That is, your gaurd meter isn't depleted simply from being hit but also from time spent holding a gaurd. That way characters can't just stand around and hold L1 until an opponent is close enough to grab him.

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Hekseville Citizen
Registered: 11/13/2012
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Re: In depth look at why the current block system makes the game even more unbalanced.

Jan 26, 2013

That E Cole vs Raiden example is just a bad MU

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Wastelander
Registered: 07/14/2012
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Re: In depth look at why the current block system makes the game even more unbalanced.

Jan 26, 2013
I think that there should be more guardbreaking moves (Like making Nariko's guidable rocket break blocks at close range). Other than that, if a character sustains more than say, 100 AP worth of attacks while blocking, then they are "crumpled," and fall down like for some of the grabs, allowing players to punish them. Or maybe some other guardbreaking system.
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Uncharted Territory
Registered: 01/26/2013
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Re: In depth look at why the current block system makes the game even more unbalanced.

Jan 26, 2013

Agreed on amount of time you can block,I liked that function on SMB when it gets smaller ,pretty genius in my opinion,however I don't want them to take out the guarding systems,fighting Kratos,Raiden,etc. will be so hard for a scrub like me.

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Fender Bender
Registered: 11/21/2012
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Re: In depth look at why the current block system makes the game even more unbalanced.

Jan 26, 2013

I like the way blocking works, if they ant to balence things they need to sort out Raiden, Coles, Sly and Drake first.

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Hekseville Citizen
Registered: 11/18/2012
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Re: In depth look at why the current block system makes the game even more unbalanced.

Jan 26, 2013
Ya know it keeps bugging me how people say Evil Cole is overpowered, and then want to nerf his gigapunch if he doesn't have that then people would have to find brand new combos and I'm sure once SuperBot nerfs the gigapunch everyone will complain about the over usage of the double grenade then after that it'll be the side square dash and how fast it is and how much range it covers, here's an easy solution: 1. Gigapunch=Block 2. Double Grenade=Block/Dodge 3. Electric Slide=Block/Dodge/Run
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Hekseville Citizen
Registered: 10/18/2012
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Re: In depth look at why the current block system makes the game even more unbalanced.

Jan 26, 2013

dunboody wrote:

I actually agree with everyhting you said, OP. Well, I don't think this game is good for 1v1 for a lot of reasons, including the one you described, but that's beside the point.

 

Anyways, I thought Raiden was a overpowered before the patch, but mainly due to his good level 1 and 2 super attacks. If they were going to nerf him, they should have changed his supers or raised the cost of his level 1 super. Nerfing his ability to combo out of a grab is probably the worst thing they could have done as Raiden has nothing but melee moves, and anyone who knows what they're doing can just gaurd and punish against all of Raiden's close range attacks.

 

A gaurd break system would be a good idea. Another idea would be to allow all characters to start up a combo out of one of their throws. As it is now, grabs aren't very useful unless an opponent is saving up for level 3 (which Evil Cole players rarely ever do).

 

*edit* Forgot to mention, if a guard break system is implemented, it should work like the one in Smash Bros. That is, your gaurd meter isn't depleted simply from being hit but also from time spent holding a gaurd. That way characters can't just stand around and hold L1 until an opponent is close enough to grab him.


Raidens front grab was OP i said it since game 1st came out and no1 listened ... He front grabs yu and can kill confirm you. or infinite grab you. or do a Crazy AP combo some ppl do 200AP ... all front a front grab... he is balanced now after taking away the crumble from front grab.

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