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Gaming Beast
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Re: I hope superbot balances this game

Jan 29, 2013

The16thNinja wrote:

Fromundaman wrote:

The16thNinja wrote:

No game will be balanced as long as I'm playing, for I am better then all.


Hahaha! Add me and show me your broken skills!

Hahahahaha, quite a funny joke, you are not worthy to fight me, for I only fight the best of the rest, and nothing but.


And it seems I just got trolled XD

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Splicer
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Re: I hope superbot balances this game

Jan 30, 2013

No I only use dante 

 

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Gaming Beast
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Re: I hope superbot balances this game

Jan 30, 2013

kaos0321 wrote:

No I only use dante 

 


I'm so sorry... XD


That being said I'll add you.

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Survivor
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Re: I hope superbot balances this game

Jan 30, 2013

Game isn't broken in my opinion. Sure it has it's faults but cmon the game is barely 2 months old gotta give em some time. Sure it is unbalanced in some respects but that only means you have to work harder to get better with the character you are using which in your case is difficult but trust me, invest the time in learn your characters and match ups and you will be rewarded. Dante is trickier to use than most other players but assuming you take the time out and learn him and I mean really learn him and just keep improving your skills you will get there. I am a Good Cole user and the most frustrating thing for me was to keep losing to Raiden and Kratos, Raiden and Kratos, Raiden and Kratos! But all I could do was keep at it and now I'm reaping the rewards. Still have a bit of trouble with some of the higher black belt Kratos' but hey it's a work in progress. I pride myself on being one not to use what everyone else uses and try to become genuinely good. You should do the same.

 

 

Realize that Dante isn't easy, he is a bit slow and has glaring holes in his defense but now the ownus is on you to get around these.  Kratos has the range on most people and Raiden is pretty quick but realize that most people who use them really have no idea how to use them and just attack aggressively hit box over and over. That's why there is such a proliferation of them online. Raiden, Kratos, Ratchet. These are all characters that are easier to use than most but that also means that a vast majority of them aren't really skilled either.

 

Trust me you just have to put the work in with Dante. This game is awesome once you put the time in,  it has a solid community as far as I can tell that's ultra competitive to the tee (I'm pretty sure that's too much of an understatement looking back at that grudge match thread.) and people that are just itching to help you out. Just take the time out, have some patience and you'll get better at it. The devs are actively working to make the game as balanced as possible.

 

And if all that still isn't enough just be thankful that the first character you fell in love with was Dante and not Jak.  Now those guys have balancing issues. Good Luck

 

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: I hope superbot balances this game

Jan 30, 2013

kaos0321 wrote:

So when did fat princess become an allstar? Nariko, sir Daniel?  o yea I remember that sly cooper game tfells old over 1,000,000 units? Wait a minute......


Since her game became very succesful for a down loadable game

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Gaming Beast
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Re: I hope superbot balances this game

[ Edited ]
Jan 30, 2013

Aylas_Hero wrote:

 

1.3 – Do Not Label Things As Cheap:



You can’t blame your opponents for applying a strategy that beats your brains out with regularity.” ~ Bill Clinton



When your opponent does something that is working, and you haven't found a way to beat it yet, DO NOT label it as a cheap tactic. What that does is shift the responsibility away from yourself, so you don't have to find a way to beat it. ~ Juggs, testyourmight.com moderator

 

What Juggs said is 100% correct. The only tactics that are "cheap" are the one's that are banned in tournaments. (In this game, usually online combo exploits caused by lag.)

 

"Well I just won't play that player who is using that tactic". If you're not trying to get better and just playing to play, I guess I would understand that. However, if you want to get better, that's the worst statement you can utter. What the problem is, is that you want to win. And when a player is doing something you can't win against, you want to give it a label to justify losing to it, or losing to that player in general. Instead of actually putting in the effort of finding ways to beat the tactic, it's far easier to just say that the player was playing "cheap" and refuse to play people who play like that.” ~ Juggs

 

Do not have that kind of attitude. Accept that your victory or loss is held within your own hands, and use all the tools available to you to win. 


I totally agree with this quote as far as knee jerk reactions go. It's easy to label something as cheap the first couple times it happens to you.

 

But I also think it's heavily one sided. If the "whatever works" strategy was the best way to go about balancing games, we'd have no need for patches or exploit fixes. This quote assumes that everyone who has ever called for a nerf is only thinking about their own egos, when that's not entirely true. Sure a more balanced game might help me win a few more matches, but it would also result in a better experience for everyone. Less exploits & cheap tactics makes it much more likely that my friends may enjoy & stick with this game, for example.

 

The quote also gives the benefit of the doubt to the person doing the "cheap" tactic. It assumes that he/she has spent tons of hours in practice mode perfecting that totally legitimate "strategy", therefore justifying the hours his opponents will have to spend in practice mode defending against it. However, that usually isn't the case at all (Kratos' side chain spam, for example). I'm pretty sure fighting game designers don't develop intricate, complex fighting systems with tons of depth for years just for a player to stick with one thoughtless strategy that somehow seems to work the majority of the time.

 

Take Toro's floating exploit, for example. It's an effortless input spam on the performer's part requiring very little thought. But what about his opponent? He has to spend hours in practice mode trying to find some way to get past this tactic that he's not allowed to label "cheap" because of some arbitrary rule that says so. If Toro was meant to be able to do this "tactic", why didn't SuperBot just give him a fly button? The input's just as effortless. And why wouldn't SuperBot give everyone a move that can easily reach Toro at that vertical height? Also, did I mention that even if you do manage to attack him, his air tech only makes him go higher, therefore making anything you do only hurt you more? Well, according to this mod, none of this apparently matters, because I'm "responsbile" for finding a solution for any situation my opponent puts me in. I'm not allowed to be an egomaniac when I'm playing. But the person exploiting Toro? Oh, he totally is!

   

I get where this mod was coming from, but be fair to both sides. The person doing the "cheap" tactic wants to win just as much as his opponent, and will make excuses for himself just as much as his opponent will. Cheap tactics may not appear as often as many people think they might, but they do exist. So please, don't assume that anyone who calls for a nerf on "cheap" tactics is just some sore loser. If they have evidence to back up their claim, at least consider listening to their reasoning.

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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: I hope superbot balances this game

Jan 30, 2013

IceColdKilla44 wrote:

Aylas_Hero wrote:

 

1.3 – Do Not Label Things As Cheap:



You can’t blame your opponents for applying a strategy that beats your brains out with regularity.” ~ Bill Clinton



When your opponent does something that is working, and you haven't found a way to beat it yet, DO NOT label it as a cheap tactic. What that does is shift the responsibility away from yourself, so you don't have to find a way to beat it. ~ Juggs, testyourmight.com moderator

 

What Juggs said is 100% correct. The only tactics that are "cheap" are the one's that are banned in tournaments. (In this game, usually online combo exploits caused by lag.)

 

"Well I just won't play that player who is using that tactic". If you're not trying to get better and just playing to play, I guess I would understand that. However, if you want to get better, that's the worst statement you can utter. What the problem is, is that you want to win. And when a player is doing something you can't win against, you want to give it a label to justify losing to it, or losing to that player in general. Instead of actually putting in the effort of finding ways to beat the tactic, it's far easier to just say that the player was playing "cheap" and refuse to play people who play like that.” ~ Juggs

 

Do not have that kind of attitude. Accept that your victory or loss is held within your own hands, and use all the tools available to you to win. 


I totally agree with this quote as far as knee jerk reactions go. It's easy to label something as cheap the first couple times it happens to you.

 

But I also think it's heavily one sided. If the "whatever works" strategy was the best way to go about balancing games, we'd have no need for patches or exploit fixes. This quote assumes that everyone who has ever called for a nerf is only thinking about their own egos, when that's not entirely true. Sure a more balanced game might help me win a few more matches, but it would also result in a better experience for everyone. Less exploits & cheap tactics makes it much more likely that my friends may like  & stick with this game, for example.

 

The quote also gives the benefit of the doubt to the person doing the "cheap" tactic. It assumes that he/she has spent tons of hours in practice mode perfecting that totally legitimate "strategy", when that usually isn't the case at all (Kratos' side chain spam, for example). I'm pretty sure fighting game designers don't develop intricate, complex fighting systems with tons of depth for years just for a player to stick with one thoughtless strategy that somehow seems to work the majority of the time. Take Toro's floating exploit, for example. It's an effortless input spam on the performer's part requiring very little thought. But what about his opponent? He has to spend hours in practice mode trying to find some way to get past this tactic that he's not allowed to label "cheap" because of some arbitrary rule that says so. If Toro was meant to be able to do that tactic, why didn't SuperBot just give him a fly button? The input's just as effortless.

 

I get where this mod was coming from, but be fair to both sides. The person doing the "cheap" tactic wants to win just as much as his opponent, and will make excuses for himself just as much as his opponent will. Cheap tactics may not appear as much as many people say they do, but they do exist. So please, don't assume that anyone who calls for a nerfo on "cheap" tactics is just a sore loser. If they have evidence to back up their claim, at least consider listening to their reasoning.


When talking about "cheap tactics", one has to differ between legal strategies and glitches. If someone wins because of using the first one, no one has the right to label him as cheap. If the win was the result of a glitch, we have to differ again. In most cases, glitches have to be removed to keep the balance in a game. But sometimes, a glitch even further balances a game, therefore it isn't patched.

 

With that in mind, look at Kratos Side Square Spam. Is it a legal strategy? Of course, it's only a single move and that means if someone labels it as cheap, he's just to lazy to develop a workaround, which, in this particular case, isn't even hard to find. That's exactly what the testyourmight mod wanted to say.

 

As far as the Toro floating goes, I don't know exactly what you mean. If you meant that "flying off screen" that looks like a glitch to me and has to be removed.

 

I highly recommend reading the entire post at testyourmight:

http://testyourmight.com/threads/tips-on-becoming-a-better-player-part-1-how-losing-helps-you-get-be...

The Jak Archives:
http://allstararena.com/threads/the-jak-archives.449/
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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: I hope superbot balances this game

Jan 30, 2013

The only change that is needed is to give Radec a level 1 that isn't so cheap.

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Wastelander
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Re: I hope superbot balances this game

Jan 30, 2013

Lombax-Ninja wrote:

The only change that is needed is to give Radec a level 1 that isn't so cheap.


Stop.

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Survivor
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Re: I hope superbot balances this game

Jan 30, 2013
Only thing I disagree with in your post DarkErazor is the bit about Kraot's side square. I'm sorry but that thing is ridiculous. It barely gives you a glimpse of time to dodge it in the air and the recovery is fast. Such a move should have some drawbacks to balance the risk vs reward. Assuming he doesn't grab you, you are probably not even in range to attack him and throwing a projectile takes a bit of time during which he can just grab you with the same thing you were trying to avoid in the first place.
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