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Survivor
Registered: 01/23/2013
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Re: I hate Kill Confirms

[ Edited ]
Feb 15, 2013

"If anyone dislikes kill confirms then ultimately you dislike this game and should stop playing it cuz all the whining is super, super annoying. Its like saying you hate FADC ultimate's in SF. This is a comboing game... just stop complaining about it all the freakin time and you won't get the "rage" you guys are thinking about. Thinking that a particular game mechanic as popular and well known as a kill confirm was unintended is also foolish. If you don't like sometihng in this game that much stop playin it guys, we won't miss ya. Go play smash so you don't have to worry about combos"


I'm sorry Moglicudi I respect you as a player but I really disagree with this, it is easy for you to take this view point because you use fat princess. She has more confirms than Big Daddy, Jak and Sir Daniel combined. If you don't see a problem with this then I guess we will just have to disagree on this one but if you are going to put a mechanic in the game then make it so that
a)the mechanic means the same to all
b)there are counter measures to offset the mechanic with respect to the characters that need it

Fat Princess has 50 unique confirms that are all pretty simple to pull off, Sir Daniel has difficult confirms, Big Daddy has difficult confirms but neither of them have had any counter measure to make them just as viable character options as Fat Princess. This applies to Raiden as well, when the game ceases to allow player choices to revolve solely around personal preference and not around which character has more confirms or is easier to win with then there IS something wrong with the balancing.

I love this game as aggravating as it may be sometimes but I dislike confirms for the sole reason that there is no balance in place with them, they have handed characters that do not need confirms many yet they hand the ones that are more difficult to use little and make them difficult to use. That is counter productive and is a flawed design rendering some characters more or less obsolete.

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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 12/30/2012
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Re: I hate Kill Confirms

Feb 15, 2013

it isn't a problem with hit comfirms as much as it's a problem with stock matches. ( I keep saying this because I've played quite a few matches in every mode. )
when you have unlimited time, you're going to zone and fish for HC or just zone low ap gaining moves till you get a LV3.
The time factor really works with how the game is balanced.


" Everybody following their heart; that's a loser's strategy"
-Seth Killian
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Survivor
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Re: I hate Kill Confirms

[ Edited ]
Feb 15, 2013

Moglicudi: "Everyone complains about the balancing issue of this game but honestly don't have a clue. Look at actual tournament placings for 1v1... the supposed most broken game style for kill confirms. Sly finished second in one of the last 1v1 pasta league tournaments... and sly had the rep for the worst 1v1'er behind radec. There was also a spike that placed third. A big daddy was 5th or 6th. This game is incredibly balanced compared to other games imo"


You cannot use what is for all intents and purposes a microcosm of the game's general population to determine what is and isn't balanced for all concerned. Reasoning like that makes absolutely no sense. 1v1 game modes are separate and apart from standard game modes and are only available in external tournaments as a result you cannot attempt to make any assessment/conclusion and or verdict of how balanced a character is in FFA based on that character functions in a 1v1 situation.

You balance the game made in how it plays in accordance with what it offers primarily to all gamers which are the FFA and the 2v2 game modes, you worry about microcosms after the necessary adjustments have been made.

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Fender Bender
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Re: I hate Kill Confirms

Feb 15, 2013

Weren't you defending kill-confirms when I made that thread on how to fix confirms?

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Survivor
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Re: I hate Kill Confirms

Feb 15, 2013
"Weren't you defending kill-confirms when I made that thread on how to fix confirms?"

Is this addressed to me?
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Survivor
Registered: 12/09/2012
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Re: I hate Kill Confirms

Feb 15, 2013

vizionary2012 wrote:

Moglicudi: "Everyone complains about the balancing issue of this game but honestly don't have a clue. Look at actual tournament placings for 1v1... the supposed most broken game style for kill confirms. Sly finished second in one of the last 1v1 pasta league tournaments... and sly had the rep for the worst 1v1'er behind radec. There was also a spike that placed third. A big daddy was 5th or 6th. This game is incredibly balanced compared to other games imo"


You cannot use what is for all intents and purposes a microcosm of the game's general population to determine what is and isn't balanced for all concerned. Reasoning like that makes absolutely no sense. 1v1 game modes are separate and apart from standard game modes and are only available in external tournaments as a result you cannot attempt to make any assessment/conclusion and or verdict of how balanced a character is in FFA based on that character functions in a 1v1 situation.

You balance the game made in how it plays in accordance with what it offers primarily to all gamers which are the FFA and the 2v2 game modes, you worry about microcosms after the necessary adjustments have been made.


Let it be noted that we have also hosted 2v2 tournaments, and that Wednesday a Dante got 1sst in 2v2, Spike in second, and Big Daddy in third.

 

While we run those two games modes AND discuss a lot about them in our chat very often, we learn a lot of things.

 

We may not have 100% difinitive knowledge, but we've ran more tournaments then ANY other community and also have more data then any other site. It does put us in a position to talk about these things. We have more data then you for sure. :smileytongue:

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Gaming Beast
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Re: I hate Kill Confirms

Feb 15, 2013

GaleDaWindMasta wrote:
You cannot understand the shock I am in right now that people haven't immediately ragged on this guy for how stance on kill confirms. Especially with his post the way it is.

I mean, I'm sure the wave is incoming, but woah.

My same exact reaction. Definitely very surprised!

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Survivor
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Re: I hate Kill Confirms

[ Edited ]
Feb 15, 2013

"Let it be noted that we have also hosted 2v2 tournaments, and that Wednesday a Dante got 1sst in 2v2, Spike in second, and Big Daddy in third.

While we run those two games modes AND discuss a lot about them in our chat very often, we learn a lot of things.

"We may not have 100% difinitive knowledge, but we've ran more tournaments then ANY other community and also have more data then any other site. It does put us in a position to talk about these things. We have more data then you for sure. "

Aylas you don't have to tell me that I was at the 2v2 tournament you held last Saturday, I had to forfeit to Dabuz and Iggy because I couldn't connect to him but evidently you don't remember...you were just too keen on rubbing a particularly irrelevant and inconsequential fact in my face but as you highlighted it is noted.

I will draw your attention to the statement that Moglicudi made.
"Sly finished second in one of the last 1v1 pasta league tournaments... and sly had the rep for the worst 1v1'er behind radec."

According to what I was responding to my statement holds true, you cannot make any conclusions/validations and or verdicts based on what holds true in a 1v1 game mode considering they are a mere microcosm of the PSABR gaming community. Yet you decided to plaster a relatively useless fact as a response to something that was being addressed very specifically.

I do not know you personally, but I do not take kindly to unmerited rudeness. The next time you wish to cast your insolence in my direction please make sure it is based off a factual assessment and in turn make a response relating to my statement.

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Survivor
Registered: 12/09/2012
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Re: I hate Kill Confirms

Feb 15, 2013
Well I have no idea why I managed to get you that angry. I wasn't attempting to insult anyone. I was just making sure that my resource of knowledge wasn't tarnished.

What I was implying was that I have data for all game modes, and input from players on every single forum for this game. I get to hear a lot every day about the game too, and I read all the forums, every post I can every day so I hear a lot from everyone and try to spread the word.

I never said 1v1 data makes good for Balancing FFA, but we must remember trying to make ALL game modes playable and balanced decently is a good idea. And we get people from every community for this game online, it helps bring in a lot off opinions and ideas that people talk about everywhere. You'd be surprised how much stuff get discussed!

And I apologize that you had a bad experience, it's not like I personally went out of my way to insult you. I was merely making a point that our "microcosm" is much bigger then you would think. We have everything from people who just purchased the game, to people who've been commenting since it was even announced and draw knowledge from every base we can.

I won't say this game is perfectly balanced, but you would be surprised how much better balanced it actually is in some game modes. FFA is inherently random, you can't expect it to be perfectly balanced. The other modes have more potential to be, and honestly are done better then people think.
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Survivor
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Re: I hate Kill Confirms

[ Edited ]
Feb 15, 2013

Aylas I am very familiar with your resource of knowledge as I said before, I frequent it very often and I was a part of the tournament last week. Your garnered knowledge is not unbeknownst to me.

"What I was implying was that I have data for all game modes, and input from players on every single forum for this game. I get to hear a lot every day about the game too, and I read all the forums." - I spoke nothing to the contrary

 

"I never said 1v1 data makes good for Balancing FFA, but we must remember trying to make ALL game modes playable and balanced decently is a good idea. And we get people from every community for this game online, it helps bring in a lot off opinions and ideas that people talk about everywhere. You'd be surprised how much stuff get discussed!" - I know you didn't but I was not responding to your comment I was responding to Moglicudi's whom is also a frequent user of your site...he mentioned something about 1v1 game modes which is what my post was in response to.

"I won't say this game is perfectly balanced, but you would be surprised how much better balanced it actually is in some game modes. FFA is inherently random, you can't expect it to be perfectly balanced. The other modes have more potential to be, and honestly are done better then people think." -  I was never debating this nor did I make any allusion to the notion.

My statement was a very specific response only to be viewed as a direct counter argument to that of Moglicudi's. It has absolutely no correlation to anything in a general sense.

I am by no means understating the size of the community at the Pasta Leagues. I am very familiar with your weekly tournaments and plan to continue to enter many myself, the term microcosm was used in a relative sense and not meant to undermine the nature of the community's size and or stature. However the fact of the matter is that upon purchase of the game, the modes that are aware to everyone are that of FFA and 2v2s. 1v1 game modes are external in nature and even though they may be staple of your community and that of many others, it is still that of a microcosm (again this term is being used relatively) as such the game modes should be balanced with respect to what is commercially available to the majority first. (This is by no means an attempt of overstating the balancing issues in this game, it is a a very specific statement with reference to the topic at hand that being kill confirms, it is NOT a generalization)

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