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Uncharted Territory
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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

Dec 29, 2012
Nariko's is hit confirmable from the same hit confirm as her level 1.

Also, might I suggest you not quote for your next post? It's beginning to get hard to read on a phone.
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Gaming Beast
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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

Dec 29, 2012
Yeah... it also made me hit the character cap and have to re-edit my post twice since half of it got cut off...

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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

Dec 30, 2012

DarkErazor wrote:

HELLSAGENT_17 wrote:

Fromundaman wrote:
We may not be playing the same game, or maybe just not at the same skill level. Once you know the matchups, adapting to avoid getting hit by hit confirm moves depending on the amount of meter each character possesses and screen position/map control is in fact very, very doable.


Other than Raiden's level 3 (I always see his level 2 though, which is not hit confirmed), I see all of the ones on that list about as often as I see anyone else's, hit confirms or not (Well, FP's level 3 less because it's usually level 2. I really only see it when I play FP against good opponents who I know will kill the chicken.).

ST's level 2 actually is a hit confirm, but more importantly it's great for countering other level 2s in high level play.
His level 3 is ridiculously good.
Considering that good players can block the machete setup pretty often, I see it more often than not. I mostly see the level 1 to punish whiffed attacks in 1v1 or because it's actually good in 2v2.

The Cole's level 3s are a lot less often, especially good Cole since his level 2 is so good (Again as a punisher, and not necessarily as a hit confirm). The only times I personally get level 3 with Good Cole are when I'm facing really good opponents in close matches, meaning I'm saving my level 2 to counter their own level 2, they're not giving me hit confirm opportunities and I keep building AP until I reach level 3. It actually happens more often than one would expect, despite still being rather rare.

I can also safely say that against Raiden I get killed by his level 2 far more than his level 1, since I know that he can't kill me with it if I'm not grounded.
Against FP I get killed far more by her level 2 than her level 1 for the same reason as with Raiden.
Against Good Cole I generally don't die, but then I haven't really hit any amazing ones.
Against Evil Cole... well... The only one I played against is Dabuz and he seriously outplayed me so I was dying to hit confirms, punishes, reads when I tried to avoid the punish, etc.


The main reason why you don't see level 3s super often is because they are retardedly hard to get to. Once you start getting close, throws are knocking off a combo's worth of AP each time.


That being said, my main, Big Daddy, has several setups into level 1, 2 of which are guaranteed but situational, and a hit confirm setup
for his level 2 that guarantees one kill, possibly two, and yet I find myself often going to level 3 because it's freaking amazing.
Nariko has kill confirms into level 1, and yet Nariko's going for level 3 isn't rare because it's just that freaking good.

Now speaking of supers you don't see, how often do you see Toro's, Spike's, Heihachi's or Parappa's level 3s? The reason is because those supers are bad and at least one of their lower supers (level 2s in most of these examples) are way way better.
Speaking of which, how is Toro ever going to get a kill with hit confirms gone? Does he now need 3 level 3s to win a stock match?


As for the staying to watch matches in stock matches... uhhh yeah... That's not going to change unless you instate a leaver policy. It's a simple matter of staying and watching what is often a one sided match between people you don't know, or going to play another match. Seems like a no brainer to me. I would think making matches go longer by forcing everyone to build to level 3 or risk whiffing would be retardedly boring to watch.

Oh and what about the characters with really good punishing supers such as Good Cole, Drake, Kratos, Sackboy, Sly would become so much better and the only ones able to safely use meter knowing it's not going to be a waste.

There it is, now we move on to how I play, which, you have no idea about. I'm glad you put that mistake in your argument.

 

Raiden's lv 2 is all about kill-confirm, people combo into it all the time. Not that it matters either way. You only told me how good their supers are, but not how much you've seen them in action, I know they're good, so why isn't anyone using them? Oh yeh, because they don't need to! They know they can take the easy way out with absolutely no hassle.

 

I use Spike's lv 3 all the time and PaRappa's every now and then, I haven't moved on to using Heihachi or Toro just as much, yet, but I have many friends who go for them often (more specifically: Toro, Heihachi himself is a rare sight in a match for me.) Go ahead and call me a daredevil if you wish.

 

Toro does not need 3 lv 3's to win a stock match, Toro just needs precision, if he doesn't have that, he will have to practice more. Don't be silly.

 

What do you think I have trying to say? Exactly they won't stay. Another matter this thread won't fix that will eventually be fixed by SuperBot... Hopefully.

 

What about those characters? You're trying to say people will flock to those characters just because of their lv 1 supers? It's kind of hard to describe that statement without using the word "silly" or "really..."

 

Here's another thinga lot of people seem to act as if not being to able to combo into your supers gives your opponent the edgeguess whatyour opponent can't do it eitherEveryone has just as much a chance as getting kills as the other guy.


There's a simple solution to this issue: If kill confirms are that easy to do, you shouldn't have any trouble defeating someone with them. Therefore I propose you play some matches against Fromundaman, and the loser will have to admit that hit confirms can be (not are) either easy to dodge or hard to avoid. Mind that I don't want to have anyone get humiliated, it's just for argumentation purposes. I even want to play against you myself, although I guess you will just outplay me, the way you destroyed my (crappy) Dante. But I want to see your point. Of course, you can practice hit confirms first, because you said you're not using them.


I play 2 vs. 2 with you often, don't I? You've never seen me do a hit confirm and I don't plan to, any time soon. Of course he'll have trouble beating me (maybe,) I know just about all the set ups. That match alone can't be a decision to judge confirms by.

 

I recently picked up Fat P, all the times I could have kill-confirmed my opponents, it's worth it. It's also funny because I use the knight to start some combos, but people dodge that like their life depended on it, they think they know what's going to happen. I use the fireball more often now. It's underrated in my opinion.

 

Also, have my Dante tips been any good to you? :smileytongue:

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Fender Bender
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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

[ Edited ]
Dec 30, 2012

@ Fromunaman:

 

I love a good argument, the point of an argument is to prove your idea is superior (in most cases like this one.) You judged my skill lv (poorly or not) without knowing what I can do, clearly we are playing the same game, so you didn't need to bring that up. You can stop if you want, I'm not forcing you to come back, as I'm not forcing anyone. But if you believe in what you say, you shouldn't roll over like everyone else has. I pointed it out because that's a massive flaw in arguments, name calling, judging, etc. is what makes arguments weak by showing the opponent you have nothing or are running out of ideas to support it. Every response I make is an actual response, I don't pull punches.

 

By how often: I meant a simple response as in "often," "every now and then," or "not a lot."

True you will see lv 1's more often, but to not be able to see the lv 3 for these characters outside of a blue moon, in a serious match, don't you find that ridiculous?

 

@ the edit: I'm glad you care.

 

You hit the nail right on the head, that's exactly what everyone should be doing with every characters lv 1. Not just Toro's. You see people doing it with Radec. I know this may come as a shock to everyone. But a lv 1 does not always guarantee a kill. And should of never had.

 

That's another thing, Toro's lv 2 is practically a screen clearer, if timed correctly. Toro builds up meter ridiculously fast, especially if you know the way people play him these days... I had a friend who once got it in like under 30 seconds, I had no idea either and the opposing team had mics and said "lv 3 already!?" Toro's flow of AP more that makes up for it if you know how to use him.

 

Drake and Cole? I guess you just simply found Toro's weaknesses (ranged characters). You're acting as if this Toro character is a complete newbie and just uses his supers up against a wall. It's not likely to play out like you predict it would, and if you remember my quote for revising a solution, guess what, if it's a serious problem, SuperBot will take care of it on their own, and again, it may not be because of this thread because this thread only takes care of the bigger issue here, knockdowns and crumples. I also have a theory, if you can remember back to when they said the next 3 character will get tweaked, one of those characters was Drake, for all we know, that could re-size the size of the oil drums and make you invulnerable in the air, and of course fix the infinite AK. I'm also trying to say you should wait before you go on to judge a character outside of this thread's power because we don't know that.

 

You're the one that brought up boring, slow matches, thus leading to my response. It's not entirely irrelevant.

 

I'd like to play with you, but I won't kill-confirm anyone. If people weren't so quick to judge me by this thread, they would easily be able to see my sig.

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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

Dec 30, 2012

Dude5059 wrote:
Nariko's is hit confirmable from the same hit confirm as her level 1.

Also, might I suggest you not quote for your next post? It's beginning to get hard to read on a phone.

Uh oh! My bad, I didn't see that! :smileylol:

 

Let me edit the quote out.

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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

Dec 30, 2012

Fromundaman wrote:
Yeah... it also made me hit the character cap and have to re-edit my post twice since half of it got cut off...

That scared for a second. My post didn't get cut off, though. I'll edit your response out and then head off to Saturday smackdown.

 

Good luck.

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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

Dec 30, 2012

HELLSAGENT_17 wrote:

I play 2 vs. 2 with you often, don't I? You've never seen me do a hit confirm and I don't plan to, any time soon. Of course he'll have trouble beating me (maybe,) I know just about all the set ups. That match alone can't be a decision to judge confirms by.

 

I recently picked up Fat P, all the times I could have kill-confirmed my opponents, it's worth it. It's also funny because I use the knight to start some combos, but people dodge that like their life depended on it, they think they know what's going to happen. I use the fireball more often now. It's underrated in my opinion.

 

Also, have my Dante tips been any good to you? :smileytongue:


It's quite hard for me to understand, why you hate kill confirms so much. That's why I proposed to have a 1v1. If you would absolutely destroy me just by using them, I would perhaps change my opinion :smileywink:

 

Your Dante tipps helped me a lot, I wouldn't mind some more of them actually^^ That combo you showed me still gives me trouble, I can launch my opponent in the air, but for some reason, Dante stays on the ground for 9 out of 10 times, although I'm holding Up and Square. What am I doing wrong with the timing?

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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

Dec 30, 2012

DarkErazor wrote:

HELLSAGENT_17 wrote:

I play 2 vs. 2 with you often, don't I? You've never seen me do a hit confirm and I don't plan to, any time soon. Of course he'll have trouble beating me (maybe,) I know just about all the set ups. That match alone can't be a decision to judge confirms by.

 

I recently picked up Fat P, all the times I could have kill-confirmed my opponents, it's worth it. It's also funny because I use the knight to start some combos, but people dodge that like their life depended on it, they think they know what's going to happen. I use the fireball more often now. It's underrated in my opinion.

 

Also, have my Dante tips been any good to you? :smileytongue:


It's quite hard for me to understand, why you hate kill confirms so much. That's why I proposed to have a 1v1. If you would absolutely destroy me just by using them, I would perhaps change my opinion :smileywink:

 

Your Dante tipps helped me a lot, I wouldn't mind some more of them actually^^ That combo you showed me still gives me trouble, I can launch my opponent in the air, but for some reason, Dante stays on the ground for 9 out of 10 times, although I'm holding Up and Square. What am I doing wrong with the timing?


Nice try! I won't kill-confirm anyone. :smileytongue:

 

Are you trying to do the combo I said was hard? The one with the axe? Or the run off the mill AP burst combo?

If you're doing the one with the axe, you have to be extremely fast to launch your opponent and yourself in the air, you cancel your guns into a dash then up square immediately.

 

Also, there was one Saturday smackdown match where this one Raiden kill-confirmed the entire match to get the win. The entire chat box was full of rage (well, disappointment is more like it,) even Spider-Jew AKA Silent Bob face-palmed and sighed in the end.

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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

[ Edited ]
Dec 30, 2012

HELLSAGENT_17 wrote:

DarkErazor wrote:


It's quite hard for me to understand, why you hate kill confirms so much. That's why I proposed to have a 1v1. If you would absolutely destroy me just by using them, I would perhaps change my opinion :smileywink:

 

Your Dante tipps helped me a lot, I wouldn't mind some more of them actually^^ That combo you showed me still gives me trouble, I can launch my opponent in the air, but for some reason, Dante stays on the ground for 9 out of 10 times, although I'm holding Up and Square. What am I doing wrong with the timing?


Nice try! I won't kill-confirm anyone. :smileytongue:

 

Are you trying to do the combo I said was hard? The one with the axe? Or the run off the mill AP burst combo?

If you're doing the one with the axe, you have to be extremely fast to launch your opponent and yourself in the air, you cancel your guns into a dash then up square immediately.

 

Also, there was one Saturday smackdown match where this one Raiden kill-confirmed the entire match to get the win. The entire chat box was full of rage (well, disappointment is more like it,) even Spider-Jew AKA Silent Bob face-palmed and sighed in the end.


Yeah, the combo with the axe. I'll try it again, thanks.

 

Do you have a link to that video or remember the channel on Twitch.tv? I'll check it out.  Edit: Guess I found it, I'll watch it later.

Edit 2: http://de.twitch.tv/radioplaystation/b/352309035 If you remember the time that match took place, you could give me that.

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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

Dec 30, 2012
I don't have an issue with comboing lvl1s, so long as they're combos. One or two hits, to me, isn't acceptable as a guaranteed kill unless it's a pseudo-confirm. By pseudo-confirm, I mean something like Ratchet's uncharged Sonic Eruptor: It's still dodgeable, but it knocks people off their guard and makes them lock up. If it's something like Sir Dan's combo confirm, I'm alright with it, since it takes time to set up.

I wouldn't have an issue, however, if SuperBot hadn't removed Jak's confirm from the GameStop demo. That removal showed that one-move confirms weren't completely intended for most characters, but rather that people found ways to take advantage of crumples. Right now, too many characters have confirms; Sweet Tooth shouldn't need a confirm, because his Super was meant to be inexpensive. And the fact that confirms have already been removed shows that this is indeed an issue.
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