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Fender Bender
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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

Dec 28, 2012

DarkErazor wrote:

HELLSAGENT_17 wrote:

Fromundaman wrote:
Ah I must have misunderstood what you were saying then.

That being said, it kind of is a huge mechanic since pretty much every character has at least one super confirm, and taking away only a few seems kind of pointless since then people will flock to the characters who still have them. Pretty much you'd have to eliminate all of them or give the few characters that don't have one a super confirm as well. Honestly the latter option would probably be easier to implement.
The thing is, whatever you do to change super confirms, that would in fact be a huge change, drastically changing how you play just about every character (Admittedly some more than others), as well as drastically increasing the length of stock matches.

(And yeah, that Cole confirm is ridiculous. Was throwing it out there though because most people seem to have not seen it, and why would this thread stop that from getting changed?)


Well then they'll have to adapt! I already have a few friends and know some people on the board that are saying they are getting used to playing without kill-confirming people. If and when this happens, and people don't adapt, well.. as The Rock told John Cena: "It's time to get your a** whooped!"

 

I meant as in that Cole kill-confirm is out of this threads power, like Dante's empty cancel. SuperBot will have to tweak the super instead to fix it just like they will inevitably patch Dante's empty cancel.


When everybody gets used to playing without hit confirms, I guess the matches will take forever and will be boring to watch. It's been discussed here a little bit: http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-All-Stars-Battle/one-of-many-reasons-why-hit-conf...

 

The thing is that random thrown out supers are so much more effective, when hit confirms are allowed. Just because you're opponent doesn't expect you to waste your meter like that. You can use this to mix up things a little und stay unpredictible.

 

If your opponent knows, you'll never use hit confirms, it's very easy for him to dodge your supers. I already made the example of Jak vs. Dante in the other thread. It's so easy for Jak to avoid Dante's super 1 and 2 every time he throws them out. Dante has to go for his level 3 at least 2 times in a stock 3 match. He literally has no other options.

 

Of course, you could say we just adjust the supers to being more effective. But I guess the developers could have done that during the creation of the game already and they had a reason to implement hit confirms instead. And from what I've seen so far, they don't break the game whatsoever.


"Boring to watch", implying anyone stays after a match currently and that watching someone trying to go for the same attack to get the kill confirm is entertaining.

 

I think you killed your own post, my friend. Smiley Tongue

 

Oh and about that Dante vs. Jak thing. In my opinion, characters have weaknesses, Dante's for that matter are characters with a lot of prjectiles. The same can go for Jak, he can miss and miss and possibly need his lv 3 to beat Dante. So be it. No one ever said each match needed to be 5 seconds long. Longer matches make it more tense!

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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

[ Edited ]
Dec 29, 2012

HELLSAGENT_17 wrote:

Fromundaman wrote:
Ah I must have misunderstood what you were saying then.

That being said, it kind of is a huge mechanic since pretty much every character has at least one super confirm, and taking away only a few seems kind of pointless since then people will flock to the characters who still have them. Pretty much you'd have to eliminate all of them or give the few characters that don't have one a super confirm as well. Honestly the latter option would probably be easier to implement.
The thing is, whatever you do to change super confirms, that would in fact be a huge change, drastically changing how you play just about every character (Admittedly some more than others), as well as drastically increasing the length of stock matches.

(And yeah, that Cole confirm is ridiculous. Was throwing it out there though because most people seem to have not seen it, and why would this thread stop that from getting changed?)


Well then they'll have to adapt! I already have a few friends and know some people on the board that are saying they are getting used to playing without kill-confirming people. If and when this happens, and people don't adapt, well.. as The Rock told John Cena: "It's time to get your a** whooped!"

 

I meant as in that Cole kill-confirm is out of this threads power, like Dante's empty cancel. SuperBot will have to tweak the super instead to fix it just like they will inevitably patch Dante's empty cancel.


So let me get this straight, you want to change the way the game works then tell people to adapt rather than just adapting to how the game is now? How does this make any sense? I mean adaption is key in any fighting game for sure, and the way it is now forces you to limit and adapt to your opponent's options on a near constant basis. So instead of adapting to that, we should take away kill options then adapt to that instead?


I really don't see how you can justify one position over the other considering they're both using the same "Learn to adapt" mentality.




Also about people watching matches:

 

A lot of my 2v2 matches keep going long after the host has been knocked out, implying the host is watching the rest of the match. I know I personally do.

To use more concrete examples, there are quite a few streams being set up for tournament matches. I have over 10 people on my Facebook who've posted videos from the PSABR tournament at Xsmash (Mostly Peter vs Heero and Dabuz vs Atomsk), all of whom I knew before this game dropped. Many of Chof's match videos get 100 -300 views (Granted, that's not huge for a youtube video, but it's still several hundreds wanting to watch these videos.).

Yeah, there are most definitely people watching matches, especially the competitive players.

The Fro never sleeps.png


 

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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

Dec 29, 2012

HELLSAGENT_17 wrote:

"Boring to watch", implying anyone stays after a match currently and that watching someone trying to go for the same attack to get the kill confirm is entertaining.

I think you killed your own post, my friend. Smiley Tongue

Oh and about that Dante vs. Jak thing. In my opinion, characters have weaknesses, Dante's for that matter are characters with a lot of prjectiles. The same can go for Jak, he can miss and miss and possibly need his lv 3 to beat Dante. So be it. No one ever said each match needed to be 5 seconds long. Longer matches make it more tense!


There are a lot of people that like to watch tournament streams/videos. I myself enjoy Mortal Kombat for example.

 

Like I said, the hit confirm adds more tension to the game and gives the players also the possibility to make randomly thrown out supers far more effective. It gives them more options to choose from, which means it increases the game's depth.

 

Ok, let's think about a scenario, where both Dante's and Jak's only option is to go for their level 3, because you cannot hit with the other supers because everyone is too good at dodging the other supers. I know I'm just repeating, but that would be boring as hell. The real tension in this game is the danger of getting killed but here this just cannot happen, because as soon as someone reaches the level 3, it's kill, kill again, start over with gaining AP. I would compare this to a StarCraft tournament match (or take any other RTS game), where people declare "no rush 20 minutes" at the beginning. After that period of time one player gets steamrolled, and a new game starts with "no rush 20 minutes". Guess no one would want to watch that.

The Jak Archives:
http://allstararena.com/threads/the-jak-archives.449/
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Fender Bender
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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

Dec 29, 2012

Fromundaman wrote:

HELLSAGENT_17 wrote:

Fromundaman wrote:
Ah I must have misunderstood what you were saying then.

That being said, it kind of is a huge mechanic since pretty much every character has at least one super confirm, and taking away only a few seems kind of pointless since then people will flock to the characters who still have them. Pretty much you'd have to eliminate all of them or give the few characters that don't have one a super confirm as well. Honestly the latter option would probably be easier to implement.
The thing is, whatever you do to change super confirms, that would in fact be a huge change, drastically changing how you play just about every character (Admittedly some more than others), as well as drastically increasing the length of stock matches.

(And yeah, that Cole confirm is ridiculous. Was throwing it out there though because most people seem to have not seen it, and why would this thread stop that from getting changed?)


Well then they'll have to adapt! I already have a few friends and know some people on the board that are saying they are getting used to playing without kill-confirming people. If and when this happens, and people don't adapt, well.. as The Rock told John Cena: "It's time to get your a** whooped!"

 

I meant as in that Cole kill-confirm is out of this threads power, like Dante's empty cancel. SuperBot will have to tweak the super instead to fix it just like they will inevitably patch Dante's empty cancel.


So let me get this straight, you want to change the way the game works then tell people to adapt rather than just adapting to how the game is now? How does this make any sense? I mean adaption is key in any fighting game for sure, and the way it is now forces you to limit and adapt to your opponent's options on a near constant basis. So instead of adapting to that, we should take away kill options then adapt to that instead?


I really don't see how you can justify one position over the other considering they're both using the same "Learn to adapt" mentality.




Also about people watching matches:

 

A lot of my 2v2 matches keep going long after the host has been knocked out, implying the host is watching the rest of the match. I know I personally do.

To use more concrete examples, there are quite a few streams being set up for tournament matches. I have over 10 people on my Facebook who've posted videos from the PSABR tournament at Xsmash (Mostly Peter vs Heero and Dabuz vs Atomsk), all of whom I knew before this game dropped. Many of Chof's match videos get 100 -300 views (Granted, that's not huge for a youtube video, but it's still several hundreds wanting to watch these videos.).

Yeah, there are most definitely people watching matches, especially the competitive players.


You didn't get anything straight. No one can ever adapt to not getting hit once with 1 kill-confirming attack, it will always happen no matter what you do. As for adampting once the solution is set, that means playing without depending on that one attack to get you kills. I have no idea what you mean by depth, when is the last time you've seen anyone use Raiden's lv 3, Sweet Tooth's lv 2 and 3, Fat P's lv 3, Both Cole's lv 3's. The list goes on, clearly your views of depth are very different from mine. SuperBot pretty much wasted a lot of time putting thought into the super system if people can't even be bothered to go big.

 

I've justified my reasons inside the entire thread outside the thread and so have many other users.

 

I never said anything about videos, I don't know where you guys pulled that out from. Of course people will watch videos for entertainment purposes like learning new combos and stuff. But I obviously meant not a lot of people stay in matches they've lost, (referring to stock alone.) They will always leave out of rage or they just can't be bothered waiting. If you stay, good for you! I applaud that, you're one of the great minorities out there!

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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

Dec 29, 2012
We may not be playing the same game, or maybe just not at the same skill level. Once you know the matchups, adapting to avoid getting hit by hit confirm moves depending on the amount of meter each character possesses and screen position/map control is in fact very, very doable.


Other than Raiden's level 3 (I always see his level 2 though, which is not hit confirmed), I see all of the ones on that list about as often as I see anyone else's, hit confirms or not (Well, FP's level 3 less because it's usually level 2. I really only see it when I play FP against good opponents who I know will kill the chicken.).

ST's level 2 actually is a hit confirm, but more importantly it's great for countering other level 2s in high level play.
His level 3 is ridiculously good.
Considering that good players can block the machete setup pretty often, I see it more often than not. I mostly see the level 1 to punish whiffed attacks in 1v1 or because it's actually good in 2v2.

The Cole's level 3s are a lot less often, especially good Cole since his level 2 is so good (Again as a punisher, and not necessarily as a hit confirm). The only times I personally get level 3 with Good Cole are when I'm facing really good opponents in close matches, meaning I'm saving my level 2 to counter their own level 2, they're not giving me hit confirm opportunities and I keep building AP until I reach level 3. It actually happens more often than one would expect, despite still being rather rare.

I can also safely say that against Raiden I get killed by his level 2 far more than his level 1, since I know that he can't kill me with it if I'm not grounded.
Against FP I get killed far more by her level 2 than her level 1 for the same reason as with Raiden.
Against Good Cole I generally don't die, but then I haven't really hit any amazing ones.
Against Evil Cole... well... The only one I played against is Dabuz and he seriously outplayed me so I was dying to hit confirms, punishes, reads when I tried to avoid the punish, etc.


The main reason why you don't see level 3s super often is because they are retardedly hard to get to. Once you start getting close, throws are knocking off a combo's worth of AP each time.


That being said, my main, Big Daddy, has several setups into level 1, 2 of which are guaranteed but situational, and a hit confirm setup
for his level 2 that guarantees one kill, possibly two, and yet I find myself often going to level 3 because it's freaking amazing.
Nariko has kill confirms into level 1, and yet Nariko's going for level 3 isn't rare because it's just that freaking good.

Now speaking of supers you don't see, how often do you see Toro's, Spike's, Heihachi's or Parappa's level 3s? The reason is because those supers are bad and at least one of their lower supers (level 2s in most of these examples) are way way better.
Speaking of which, how is Toro ever going to get a kill with hit confirms gone? Does he now need 3 level 3s to win a stock match?


As for the staying to watch matches in stock matches... uhhh yeah... That's not going to change unless you instate a leaver policy. It's a simple matter of staying and watching what is often a one sided match between people you don't know, or going to play another match. Seems like a no brainer to me. I would think making matches go longer by forcing everyone to build to level 3 or risk whiffing would be retardedly boring to watch.

Oh and what about the characters with really good punishing supers such as Good Cole, Drake, Kratos, Sackboy, Sly would become so much better and the only ones able to safely use meter knowing it's not going to be a waste.

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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

Dec 29, 2012

Fromundaman wrote:
We may not be playing the same game, or maybe just not at the same skill level. Once you know the matchups, adapting to avoid getting hit by hit confirm moves depending on the amount of meter each character possesses and screen position/map control is in fact very, very doable.


Other than Raiden's level 3 (I always see his level 2 though, which is not hit confirmed), I see all of the ones on that list about as often as I see anyone else's, hit confirms or not (Well, FP's level 3 less because it's usually level 2. I really only see it when I play FP against good opponents who I know will kill the chicken.).

ST's level 2 actually is a hit confirm, but more importantly it's great for countering other level 2s in high level play.
His level 3 is ridiculously good.
Considering that good players can block the machete setup pretty often, I see it more often than not. I mostly see the level 1 to punish whiffed attacks in 1v1 or because it's actually good in 2v2.

The Cole's level 3s are a lot less often, especially good Cole since his level 2 is so good (Again as a punisher, and not necessarily as a hit confirm). The only times I personally get level 3 with Good Cole are when I'm facing really good opponents in close matches, meaning I'm saving my level 2 to counter their own level 2, they're not giving me hit confirm opportunities and I keep building AP until I reach level 3. It actually happens more often than one would expect, despite still being rather rare.

I can also safely say that against Raiden I get killed by his level 2 far more than his level 1, since I know that he can't kill me with it if I'm not grounded.
Against FP I get killed far more by her level 2 than her level 1 for the same reason as with Raiden.
Against Good Cole I generally don't die, but then I haven't really hit any amazing ones.
Against Evil Cole... well... The only one I played against is Dabuz and he seriously outplayed me so I was dying to hit confirms, punishes, reads when I tried to avoid the punish, etc.


The main reason why you don't see level 3s super often is because they are retardedly hard to get to. Once you start getting close, throws are knocking off a combo's worth of AP each time.


That being said, my main, Big Daddy, has several setups into level 1, 2 of which are guaranteed but situational, and a hit confirm setup
for his level 2 that guarantees one kill, possibly two, and yet I find myself often going to level 3 because it's freaking amazing.
Nariko has kill confirms into level 1, and yet Nariko's going for level 3 isn't rare because it's just that freaking good.

Now speaking of supers you don't see, how often do you see Toro's, Spike's, Heihachi's or Parappa's level 3s? The reason is because those supers are bad and at least one of their lower supers (level 2s in most of these examples) are way way better.
Speaking of which, how is Toro ever going to get a kill with hit confirms gone? Does he now need 3 level 3s to win a stock match?


As for the staying to watch matches in stock matches... uhhh yeah... That's not going to change unless you instate a leaver policy. It's a simple matter of staying and watching what is often a one sided match between people you don't know, or going to play another match. Seems like a no brainer to me. I would think making matches go longer by forcing everyone to build to level 3 or risk whiffing would be retardedly boring to watch.

Oh and what about the characters with really good punishing supers such as Good Cole, Drake, Kratos, Sackboy, Sly would become so much better and the only ones able to safely use meter knowing it's not going to be a waste.

There it is, now we move on to how I play, which, you have no idea about. I'm glad you put that mistake in your argument.

 

Raiden's lv 2 is all about kill-confirm, people combo into it all the time. Not that it matters either way. You only told me how good their supers are, but not how much you've seen them in action, I know they're good, so why isn't anyone using them? Oh yeh, because they don't need to! They know they can take the easy way out with absolutely no hassle.

 

I use Spike's lv 3 all the time and PaRappa's every now and then, I haven't moved on to using Heihachi or Toro just as much, yet, but I have many friends who go for them often (more specifically: Toro, Heihachi himself is a rare sight in a match for me.) Go ahead and call me a daredevil if you wish.

 

Toro does not need 3 lv 3's to win a stock match, Toro just needs precision, if he doesn't have that, he will have to practice more. Don't be silly.

 

What do you think I have trying to say? Exactly they won't stay. Another matter this thread won't fix that will eventually be fixed by SuperBot... Hopefully.

 

What about those characters? You're trying to say people will flock to those characters just because of their lv 1 supers? It's kind of hard to describe that statement without using the word "silly" or "really..."

 

Here's another thinga lot of people seem to act as if not being to able to combo into your supers gives your opponent the edgeguess whatyour opponent can't do it eitherEveryone has just as much a chance as getting kills as the other guy.

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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

Dec 29, 2012

@HellsAgent

 

   Even with confirms, characters have just as much as landing supers as others. Remember, they still have to get that initial hit off before confirming which can be avoided by *GASP* blocking and dodging. From and others have put confirms into perspective and told why they're acceptable. 

 

> wants to change the game so that others have to adapt

> doesn't want to adapt himself Smiley Frustrated 

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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

Dec 29, 2012

simplegary wrote:

@HellsAgent

 

   Even with confirms, characters have just as much as landing supers as others. Remember, they still have to get that initial hit off before confirming which can be avoided by *GASP* blocking and dodging. From and others have put confirms into perspective and told why they're acceptable. 

 

> wants to change the game so that others have to adapt

> doesn't want to adapt himself Smiley Frustrated 


Not really, a super without a hit confirm is not always 100% but it's not always 0%, either. Do the math, and define "confirm" for me, would you, please? All reward and no risk makes Jack a dull boy.

 

Yes, gasp is right, I totally never thought of that. Please, join all the naysayers who have told me and me only to block, as well. They've got jackets!

 

>It's not my fault that I won't have to adapt, I simply don't kill-confirm these poor souls.

>You don't know that.

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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

[ Edited ]
Dec 29, 2012

HELLSAGENT_17 wrote:

Fromundaman wrote:
We may not be playing the same game, or maybe just not at the same skill level. Once you know the matchups, adapting to avoid getting hit by hit confirm moves depending on the amount of meter each character possesses and screen position/map control is in fact very, very doable.


Other than Raiden's level 3 (I always see his level 2 though, which is not hit confirmed), I see all of the ones on that list about as often as I see anyone else's, hit confirms or not (Well, FP's level 3 less because it's usually level 2. I really only see it when I play FP against good opponents who I know will kill the chicken.).

ST's level 2 actually is a hit confirm, but more importantly it's great for countering other level 2s in high level play.
His level 3 is ridiculously good.
Considering that good players can block the machete setup pretty often, I see it more often than not. I mostly see the level 1 to punish whiffed attacks in 1v1 or because it's actually good in 2v2.

The Cole's level 3s are a lot less often, especially good Cole since his level 2 is so good (Again as a punisher, and not necessarily as a hit confirm). The only times I personally get level 3 with Good Cole are when I'm facing really good opponents in close matches, meaning I'm saving my level 2 to counter their own level 2, they're not giving me hit confirm opportunities and I keep building AP until I reach level 3. It actually happens more often than one would expect, despite still being rather rare.

I can also safely say that against Raiden I get killed by his level 2 far more than his level 1, since I know that he can't kill me with it if I'm not grounded.
Against FP I get killed far more by her level 2 than her level 1 for the same reason as with Raiden.
Against Good Cole I generally don't die, but then I haven't really hit any amazing ones.
Against Evil Cole... well... The only one I played against is Dabuz and he seriously outplayed me so I was dying to hit confirms, punishes, reads when I tried to avoid the punish, etc.


The main reason why you don't see level 3s super often is because they are retardedly hard to get to. Once you start getting close, throws are knocking off a combo's worth of AP each time.


That being said, my main, Big Daddy, has several setups into level 1, 2 of which are guaranteed but situational, and a hit confirm setup
for his level 2 that guarantees one kill, possibly two, and yet I find myself often going to level 3 because it's freaking amazing.
Nariko has kill confirms into level 1, and yet Nariko's going for level 3 isn't rare because it's just that freaking good.

Now speaking of supers you don't see, how often do you see Toro's, Spike's, Heihachi's or Parappa's level 3s? The reason is because those supers are bad and at least one of their lower supers (level 2s in most of these examples) are way way better.
Speaking of which, how is Toro ever going to get a kill with hit confirms gone? Does he now need 3 level 3s to win a stock match?


As for the staying to watch matches in stock matches... uhhh yeah... That's not going to change unless you instate a leaver policy. It's a simple matter of staying and watching what is often a one sided match between people you don't know, or going to play another match. Seems like a no brainer to me. I would think making matches go longer by forcing everyone to build to level 3 or risk whiffing would be retardedly boring to watch.

Oh and what about the characters with really good punishing supers such as Good Cole, Drake, Kratos, Sackboy, Sly would become so much better and the only ones able to safely use meter knowing it's not going to be a waste.

There it is, now we move on to how I play, which, you have no idea about. I'm glad you put that mistake in your argument.

 

Raiden's lv 2 is all about kill-confirm, people combo into it all the time. Not that it matters either way. You only told me how good their supers are, but not how much you've seen them in action, I know they're good, so why isn't anyone using them? Oh yeh, because they don't need to! They know they can take the easy way out with absolutely no hassle.

 

I use Spike's lv 3 all the time and PaRappa's every now and then, I haven't moved on to using Heihachi or Toro just as much, yet, but I have many friends who go for them often (more specifically: Toro, Heihachi himself is a rare sight in a match for me.) Go ahead and call me a daredevil if you wish.

 

Toro does not need 3 lv 3's to win a stock match, Toro just needs precision, if he doesn't have that, he will have to practice more. Don't be silly.

 

What do you think I have trying to say? Exactly they won't stay. Another matter this thread won't fix that will eventually be fixed by SuperBot... Hopefully.

 

What about those characters? You're trying to say people will flock to those characters just because of their lv 1 supers? It's kind of hard to describe that statement without using the word "silly" or "really..."

 

Here's another thinga lot of people seem to act as if not being to able to combo into your supers gives your opponent the edgeguess whatyour opponent can't do it eitherEveryone has just as much a chance as getting kills as the other guy.


There's a simple solution to this issue: If kill confirms are that easy to do, you shouldn't have any trouble defeating someone with them. Therefore I propose you play some matches against Fromundaman, and the loser will have to admit that hit confirms can be (not are) either easy to dodge or hard to avoid. Mind that I don't want to have anyone get humiliated, it's just for argumentation purposes. I even want to play against you myself, although I guess you will just outplay me, the way you destroyed my (crappy) Dante. But I want to see your point. Of course, you can practice hit confirms first, because you said you're not using them.

The Jak Archives:
http://allstararena.com/threads/the-jak-archives.449/
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Re: How to fix comboing into cheap supers!

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Dec 29, 2012


I want to start by saying that I'm not trying to start a fight with this, but are you actually paying attention to wat you read or just trying to use it as ammunition to be "right" regardless of what I say? I ask because you kind of picked and chose stuff from my last post to respond to without looking at the context it was written in and completely misinterpretted some of it, and considering how you start by thanking me for making a mistake (Which mind you I was not making an assumption about your skill. I was throwing that out half-jokingly for why we are not noticing the same thing, and nowhere did I say your skill level was inferior) which makes me think that this has become more about winning an arguement against me personally than about the issue we are discussing. If that's the case please let me know so I can stop typing these walls of text.
All of the supers I listed were supers I see whenever I play opponents who either I don't let land the first hit of hit confirmed supers OR don't allow me to land them. I can't say exactly how often that is since I don't particularly keep track, but yes, or course it's less than I see the level 1s. Other than maybe Parappa and BD, you see every character's level 1 more than their other supers.
Sure, many of those are also hit confirmable (I started making a list, but then I realized that just about every level 2 in the game except maybe Toro's and Nariko's are hit confirmable)
EDIT: Oh **bleep** half my post disappeared... The more important part too. Give me a sec to type this back up. Deleted our quotes because it might be a character limit issue.
Precision isn't going to save Toro with your proposed change, to use him as an example. God I hate retyping this... His level one is good when comboed into, but outside of that what is it good for? Hitting distracted opponents? Punishing a completely whiffed move? I mean, you can easily bait it, you can roll dodge through it on reaction, you can jump/airdodge it on reaction. It's essentially a slightly faster version of FP's level 1. It can be a decent tech-chase option, but that requires a good read. You can also try to mindgame them into it but that's it.

And what about his level 2? You can easily kill him before he kills you if you have meter, it's ridiculously easy to avoid if you know what it does, and he can't hit confirm it. So now, against someone who knows the matchup, Toro's only options are to mindgame his level 1 or go for level 3. If this is a 3 stocked match, that's going to take a while. As of right now his multiple hit confirms allow this otherwise decent character to score kills.

Now let's assume this Toro is against someone like Drake. Drake's level 1 can still be comboed into since it doesn't utilize a crumple or soft knockdown, as can his level 2. Both of these supers can punish airdodges, dodge rolls and whiffed attacks. His level 2 is an amazing anti-air, traps people in the corner, counters other supers due to the stupidly disjoinct range, can be comboed out of a grab, and can punish you for merely pressing a button.

Okay, now let's assume instead of Drake it's Good Cole. This character still has a hit confirm super from halfscreen (Along with 2 other ways), can still use his level 1 in place of a grab due to the rapid startup and can still use it as a retardedly good anti-air. His level 2 can still counter most other supers, can still punish airdodges, dodge rolls, or merely pressing a button.


The point is that this change does not in fact put every character on an even footing. There's still characters able to combo into supers, and even amongst the ones who can't, the ones with more useful supers, either because they work well as punishing moves or as "utility supers" (Anti-airs and such) will inevitably become better than those who neither have these or cannot combo into their supers. Characters like Toro, Dante (He uses a crumple to super, right?), Heihachi, Spike, etc will become borderline worthless whereas characters such as the ones I previously named (Drake, Good Cole, Sly, Kratos, Sackboy, etc.) would become really good, simply because they would now be in the minority able to easily score kills. This would completely mess up the balance in the game, which for the most part is good right now.




Also if we agree that your fix won't make people stay to watch matches after they get eliminated, then why even bring it up? This is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
Also, please learn some hitconfirms and play me, just to see how often this does or doesn't work. I understand that playing each other won't prove much, but it may help each other realize how easy and/or hard it is to land these supers, or at the very least give us both an idea of each other's skill level.

 

The Fro never sleeps.png


 

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