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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Guide to beat Kratos

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Dec 25, 2012

@simplegary You keep mentioning range but forget the ever constant threat of the heavily armored side triangle of Big Daddy's that can gaurentee a knockdown for mix up so if Kratos just keeps trying to fight Big Daddy using his square attacks he's going to suffer due to the fact Big daddy can punish him for them by charging through them and setting him up for mixup. Shock plasmid can also be used in combination with ice and tornado plasmid to control the ground, air and direct ground infront of Big Daddy if Kratos is being too cautious from fear of getting his square attacks plowed through for a knockdown. Kratos' chain grab is even less useful on Big Daddy than anyone else for once again having super armor that can absorb it ontop of simply blocking it so even at max range Big Daddy can close the gap quickly witha charge either during the attack or after blocking it.

Now if Kratos had some major ranged attacks that Big Daddy's armor couldn't protect him from like Good Coles Ice Crystals or Ratchets sniper then yes he'd have the advantage but because they are square moves with little blockstun if he starts to try create an opening or use a block string Big Daddy recovers fast enough to just charge through anyway.

Mixup that's 50/50 means that the opponent only has maybe 2 options in them to either survive or get hit and since it's 50/50 there is no way of working around it from experience except to avoid getting knocked down at all cost.

Big Daddy's level 2 is also a major threat to Kratos trying to play the range game or create openings with square moves since Big Daddy can activate his level 2 for it's invicibility and just kill Kratos when he's in the middle of his attack animation or recovering from it.

 

Lastly Kratos lacks any form of armor breaking anti air move he can use to stop Big Daddy closing in on him from the air since his square attacks are useless against his armor and he'd only be leaving himself open to get knocked down or stunned by one of Big Daddy's air square attacks. Having Big Daddy above you when you're on the ground is all kinds of awful because it gives him a chance to setup his ice puddle, charge in towards you or simply dodge your attack and land beside you for an easy punish. Even air to air Kratos has no moves that can stop a rushing big daddy's air square moves.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Guide to beat Kratos

Dec 25, 2012

CalDW19940 wrote:

@simplegary You keep mentioning range but forget the ever constant threat of the heavily armored side triangle of Big Daddy's that can gaurentee a knockdown for mix up so if Kratos just keeps trying to fight Big Daddy using his square attacks he's going to suffer due to the fact Big daddy can punish him for them by charging through them and setting him up for mixup. Shock plasmid can also be used in combination with ice and tornado plasmid to control the ground, air and direct ground infront of Big Daddy if Kratos is being too cautious from fear of getting his square attacks plowed through for a knockdown. Kratos' chain grab is even less useful on Big Daddy than anyone else for once again having super armor that can absorb it ontop of simply blocking it so even at max range Big Daddy can close the gap quickly witha charge either during the attack or after blocking it.

Now if Kratos had some major ranged attacks that Big Daddy's armor couldn't protect him from like Good Coles Ice Crystals or Ratchets sniper then yes he'd have the advantage but because they are square moves with little blockstun if he starts to try create an opening or use a block string Big Daddy recovers fast enough to just charge through anyway.

Mixup that's 50/50 means that the opponent only has maybe 2 options in them to either survive or get hit and since it's 50/50 there is no way of working around it from experience except to avoid getting knocked down at all cost.

Big Daddy's level 2 is also a major threat to Kratos trying to play the range game or create openings with square moves since Big Daddy can activate his level 2 for it's invicibility and just kill Kratos when he's in the middle of his attack animation or recovering from it.

 

Lastly Kratos lacks any form of armor breaking anti air move he can use to stop Big Daddy closing in on him from the air since his square attacks are useless against his armor and he'd only be leaving himself open to get knocked down or stunned by one of Big Daddy's air square attacks. Having Big Daddy above you when you're on the ground is all kinds of awful because it gives him a chance to setup his ice puddle, charge in towards you or simply dodge your attack and land beside you for an easy punish. Even air to air Kratos has no moves that can stop a rushing big daddy's air square moves.


 Plasmids? Those slow @ss moves? Honestly the electricity is too slow for it's own good and Kratos can charge through it and the tornado. Kratos can also get rid of ice puddles by  simply pressing triangle or using the hammer. If the Big Daddy is using the aerial charge then Kratos can just block and punish it.  Same thing goes for the ground charge which is super telegraphed. An aerial Big Daddy is still not as much of a threat as you make him out to be. If you're referring to Big Daddy's aerial square moves, the range on those moves is just awful. Kratos also has the option to stay out of Big Daddy's range (which isn't much) and pepper him with his aerial attacks that have both good speed and range. I don't think a ground charge causes a hard knockdown against an aerial opponent but I may be wrong on this.

 

I hardly see how it's a 50/50. Now if this game had high/low blocking then you may have been on to something. In most cases Big Daddy's shenanigans can be escaped by teching the grab or grabbing Big Daddy out of the move itself. Big Daddy's moves are just too telegraphed for them to be hard to read. Also, that level 1 setup  sounds like it can be escaped by delaying your wake up.  Can you show me a video of this "mixup" so that I can get a better clue of what you're talking about.

 

There's a reason why I never bothered mentioning chain grab as that move would probably never hit against a competent oppponent especially in 1 v 1. The only time I'd ever imagine a Kratos using that move in a 1v1 is if the opponent does something really stupid and I mean REALLY stupid or just to punish a move with lots of recovery.

 

I'm not going to lie, I quite enjoy this conversation.

 

 

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Re: Guide to beat Kratos

[ Edited ]
Dec 25, 2012

@simplygary Why would Kratos charge TOWARDS Big Daddy, the whole point is to block off the area infront of Big Daddy using Plasmids to either hit Kratos with a plasmid or force him to do something stupid like try to roll or charge towards Big Daddy which is what he wants.

Ground Charge will cause a hard knockdown with it's follow up attack on aerial opponents unless they are awkwadly placed on a platform above Big Daddy.

Pepper in the air? I honestly don't see that working, Big Daddy's tornado can keep the air above him safe and if he sees his opponent clearly trying to stay in the air all the time he'd just jump up their himself and use his square moves to get a wallbounce into level 1 or to get a hard knockdown. Only characters able to be a threat to Big Daddy in the air is Ratchet since Ratchet has several attacks he can use in the air that Big Daddy's armor can't go through (the sniper in particular being very evil). Characters without an armor busting ranged attack will have a much more difficult time keeping Big Daddy off of them. Big Daddy can also increase his momentum in the air using air forward square which can cover a good amount of the screen and chase after opponents trying to fight him in the air meaning the range of the attack is extended from the movement forward allowing him to absorb more attacks with armor from further away and knock someone against the wall for a tornado or level 1 combo.

Here is a video sample of some early traps and setups learned. Most of these are setup using a hard knock down while the combos tend to be started with some armor property move that can be done on reaction to an anti air. The super/throw rolling trap I mentioned is in this video but it can be done outside the corner on characers that are a certain height (Cole's height or taller) and Kratos falls into this catergory which makes his tech chase game even greater, usually Big Daddy's bad matchups are against characters that can either zone or are not effected by this setup (Sackboy, Ratchet being both zoners and too short for this to work outside the corner) But Kratos has neither of these traits

Delaying your wake up won't work either since certain moves that cause a hard knock down have enough recovery to lay down an ice puddle or whiff an attack to get the timing of when to get the super out before the first frame of wake up happens (Street Fighter players do this often with jabs when trying to time a safe jump) and even then if you choose to lay down you're giving Big Daddy a chance to lay down an ice puddle and still be able to setup his super/throw trap only now even if he screws up they'll be stuck in the puddle, getting stuck in the puddle can lead to another knock down combo OR Big Daddy can simply use neutral triangle or forward Square to push the opponent towards little sister if he layed the puddle on the same side she was.



Some extra level 1 setups and combos, not as practical but good to know.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Guide to beat Kratos

Dec 25, 2012

@CalDW

 

      That's what I was talking about.. If the opponent delays their wakeup they can wait for Big Daddy to use the ice puddle then roll away while Big Daddy is stuck in the animation. The  ground ice puddle is slow on recovery with a very noticeable animation while the air ice puddle would be easy to see because well Big Daddy's in the air. It's still not much of a 50/50. That level 1 setup can still be escaped by delaying wakeup especially if Big Daddy uses it immediately after the knock down. It makes it even harder for BD considering that the opponent can choose to wakeup at anytime (within the delayed wakeup period) he or she wants. SInce we're talking about level 2 supers now, Kratos can just bait Big Daddy into the air or punish one of his armored moves with it either way. Props for taking the time to find me the video though

 

      The tornado doesn't really cover much area so it doesn't completely eliminate Kratos's air options. Kratos's counter is also a slightly delayed strike so if timed right it hits Big Daddy at the end of his armored moves. Kratos can stay out of Big Daddy's range using the square combo ( and I don't mean mashing it all at once) 1 hit at a time and just block and punish that slow charge if Big Daddy decides to go for it. Big Daddy also can't try to roll into or behind Kratos while he's using it (square combo) because he can cancel it into his launcher when Big Daddy is in the recovery frames of his roll. Big Daddy's aerial moves still have terrible range whilst most of Kratos's aerial moves have 3 times that range and hit on both sides. BD's forward square can't compare to Kratos's aerial range.

 

      As far as I'm concerned

Kratos = Big Daddy on the ground

Kratos > Big Daddy in the air

 

 Merry Christmas dude!

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Re: Guide to beat Kratos

Dec 25, 2012
@simpleygary Well I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree, from my experience as Big Daddy unless the match is lagging like there's no tomorrow and everything is delayed making setups extremly difficult then I still believe Big Daddy has a matchup advantage to Kratos though due to your points raised it's probably about 6-4.

Both characters have two supers that are annoying to try and land, Big Daddy's is slightly easier if he gets someone frozen , stunned or shocked but both characters supers can still easily be dodged and in a lot of cases it comes down to relying on a level 3, the level 3 advantage certainly goes to Big Daddy in terms of which is better but I think the meter requirement being so steep makes them equal in this regard also.

Big Daddy and Kratos are both chilling at mid tier in my book for 1vs1, Kratos is slightly higher possibly due to being able o fight zoners a bit better than Big Daddy but Big Daddy has a positive matchup to most close range fighters (Even matchup to Raiden and negative matchup against Fat Princess as exceptions). If both characters had easier to hit confirm supers theyed both be much higher for 1vs1 but as it stand they are both stuck at mid tier in my book.

I'm glad I was able to keep a conversation/debate with you about this theory fighter without it escalating into name calling like most internet "debates" so thanks for the interesting discussion.

Merry Christmas to you too
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PlayStation MVP
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Re: Guide to beat Kratos

Dec 25, 2012
@CalDW
How would you say the Sackboy/Big Daddy matchup is?
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Gaming Beast
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Re: Guide to beat Kratos

Dec 25, 2012
CalDW definitely knows what he is talking about with Big Daddy.

In fact, I've seen Big Daddy being used by some tourney players, BD is the most underrated character on the roster. His armour charge is ridiculous!
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Playstation God of War Stars Battle Bore y'all !!!
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First Son
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Re: Guide to beat Kratos

Dec 25, 2012
KRATOS IS GOD OF WAR
BETTER THAN all of this
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Re: Guide to beat Kratos

Dec 25, 2012
@Ginta2468 Good question, Sackboy can still zone him half decently but all his projectiles can be detroyed and charged through with armor.

Sackboys size can make some setups and combos not work on him though meaning Big Daddy often has to try and force him to the corner for any half decent super setup.

Sackboy has a slightly easier time landing his level 1 than Big Daddy and even more so for his level 2.

Upclose Big Daddy can still keep the pressure on Sackboy since Sackboy's close range options are already pretty bad and his command grab can't hit any of Big Daddies armored attacks.

If Sackboy uses his respawn pod (teleport) well he can give Big Daddy a hard time constantly having to chase him down but due to the nerf to his zoning tools it will take him forever to build meter for his supers unless he wants to actually risk getting close to Big Daddy.

I think it's about 5-5 right now, pre patch Sackboy definatly had a 6-4 at the least due to better zoning tools and being able to get his good supers (2 and 3) much more often btu the nerf hurts this.

In a competetive play if there is a timer with a score limit in the ruleset Big Daddy will at least get the meter for his Supers more often but if Sackboy wants any good meter gain he NEEDS to take a risk and get close to Big Daddy so with a timer on Sackboy's keepaway game is hurt badly because there's only so long he has to actually get some kills before his opponent.
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