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Aug 13 2013
By: fatwalrus12345 Survivor 2609 posts
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Evil Cole Podcast Commentary

60 replies 224 views Edited Aug 13, 2013

As some of you may know, Deven3000 and DominoSNK recently made a video regarding patches that should be made for Evil Cole. The link is as follows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPEZJHiDBE8

 

I would like to note that the super armor on the giga punch is actually 15 AP, and I agree that it should be raised to 20. It is used effectivelly by dabuz on many accounts against Asis in their matches: Refer to 30:41

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCaG2_sJba4

 

The oil spike should have its effect duration raised a second or two, to allow for effective usage, and perhaps even make it harder to destroy, so that Kray kray does not just press down square and decimate it. 

 

The level 2, as stated in the video needs some definite tweaking. It needs a faster start up time, and the glitch where the level two goes all the way through and does not kill needs a fix. I encountered said glitch 4 times yesterday alone.

 

The hellstorm missles need to keep their combo potential, if not make it easier to use them. For instance, Evil Cole is able to use a tether, hellstorm missles, jump, tether, and hellstorm missles again. It is 90 AP, not counting the launch used. This is very good, however difficult. The second jump is difficult to get in for the continuation, a slight buff would prompt more use of it.

 

The wall combos are perfectly fine, see this video, keeping in mind Thesaus is amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-xtn6xaOT4

 

In totaly, this is not a patch wish list, I am wondering what people are thinking about the podcast, and the above is my commentary.

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Fender Bender
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Re: Evil Cole Podcast Commentary

Aug 13, 2013
This should be in the podcast thread. I disagree with the proposed giga punch and oil spike buff. The giga punch is pretty fast, has armour and KCs as is and can be used for oki already and it leads to many bursts and a 115AP KC with a wall. If it had additional armour and a strtup buff then close up characters like Dante would have no way of dealing with it other than to counter which has a long recovery, E.Cole, a jack of all trades master of none, shouldn't have as good or beter melee options and starters than a melee centric character. The oil spike I find impossible to destroy as Dante, this may be a netcode problem but it doesn't need to be given beter durability. It is an oki tool and should be used as such. Giving it more duration seems unnecessary. I felt overall that most of what wassaid in the podcast was good but that Dabuz was balancing for E.Cole to become lower top tier-upper high tier when I feel that uppr mid-lowerhigh tier is the place to aim for (I felt this way about the Fat Peach and to a slightly lesser extent the Raiden podcasts as well) assuming every character is brought to the level I proposed, E.Cole would be fine and just need bug fixes.

Universal Notation: n=neutral f=forward b=backward u=up d=down 1=square 2=triangle 3=circle

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Evil Cole Podcast Commentary

Aug 13, 2013

Buffing evil cole


Yeah this patch is gonna be **bleep**

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Wastelander
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Re: Evil Cole Podcast Commentary

[ Edited ]
Aug 13, 2013

It seems as though Dabuz's and Thesaus's argument is that Evil Cole's Giga Punch is too weak when he is fighting top tier characters. It sounds as though Evil Cole may not need any buffs if the top tiers were simply nerfed instead. Evil Cole seems to perform well against the rest of the cast.

 

Recall that Evil Cole vs Dante was widely accepted as 9 - 1 before the patch that nerfed Evil Cole and buffed Dante. Improving Evil Cole's Giga Punch would probably tilt the favor in Evil Cole's favor in a lopsided manner as it previously did (Dante doesn't really have any 30 AP attacks that he can just throw out). I'm not sure, but I believe Evil Cole already has a slight advantage over Dante as it is...I feel like the goal of patching a game should be to normalize as many bad match ups as possible rather than making them worse.

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Gaming Beast
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Re: Evil Cole Podcast Commentary

Aug 13, 2013
Evil Cole does need a buff. His punch isn't very good right now, I'm sorry to say. Yes, the proposed buff may make the Dante EC MU in EC's favor, but that's one MU. Right now, his punch is practically useless in a lot of MU's. Like they said in the podcast, it's so slow that it's pretty easy to escape his oki, and it can't actually punish a lot of landing lag moves that he should be able to.

Also, they said they want to balance to high tier, because they want every character to have a range of good options. Thus, every character should be good, which imo is a great reason. Mid tier characters are mid tier because they only have a couple of safe options and have a couple of useless moves. The game wouldn't be as exciting if every character was like that instead of every character having a bunch of good options and no useless moves.
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Gaming Beast
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Re: Evil Cole Podcast Commentary

[ Edited ]
Aug 13, 2013

BomB-RideR-14 wrote:

It seems as though Dabuz's and Thesaus's argument is that Evil Cole's Giga Punch is too weak when he is fighting top tier characters. It sounds as though Evil Cole may not need any buffs if the top tiers were simply nerfed instead. Evil Cole seems to perform well against the rest of the cast.

 

Recall that Evil Cole vs Dante was widely accepted as 9 - 1 before the patch that nerfed Evil Cole and buffed Dante. Improving Evil Cole's Giga Punch would probably tilt the favor in Evil Cole's favor in a lopsided manner as it previously did (Dante doesn't really have any 30 AP attacks that he can just throw out). I'm not sure, but I believe Evil Cole already has a slight advantage over Dante as it is...I feel like the goal of patching a game should be to normalize as many bad match ups as possible rather than making them worse.


I think a big reason as to why EC might beat Dante right now is because Dante has no way to really deal with the oil spike because of netcode. The only reliable way for him to kill it right now is with a d1 which leaves him wide open to punch. If his a.d3 actually killed the oil spike (as well as mines for other characters) it would be a different situation.

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Evil Cole Podcast Commentary

Aug 13, 2013

Evil cole can lame out Dante by corner camping the mine just like any other zoner. 

There's no way the MU is in Dante's favor.

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Wastelander
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Re: Evil Cole Podcast Commentary

Aug 14, 2013

dragonsroc wrote:
Evil Cole does need a buff. His punch isn't very good right now, I'm sorry to say. Yes, the proposed buff may make the Dante EC MU in EC's favor, but that's one MU. Right now, his punch is practically useless in a lot of MU's. Like they said in the podcast, it's so slow that it's pretty easy to escape his oki, and it can't actually punish a lot of landing lag moves that he should be able to.

Also, they said they want to balance to high tier, because they want every character to have a range of good options. Thus, every character should be good, which imo is a great reason. Mid tier characters are mid tier because they only have a couple of safe options and have a couple of useless moves. The game wouldn't be as exciting if every character was like that instead of every character having a bunch of good options and no useless moves.

Well, they did say that he has trouble competing against top tiers like Raiden and Kratos. My question is: would he still need a buff if the top tiers were normalized in how strong they are?

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Wastelander
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Re: Evil Cole Podcast Commentary

[ Edited ]
Aug 14, 2013

For the record, I'm not saying "No, absolutely not! Evil Cole should most definitely not get a buff!" I'm just simply giving another argument/perspective to debate.

 

Though honestly I feel as though Evil Cole's level 1 super should be a 150 AP super rather than a 125 AP super (same with Cole).

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Gaming Beast
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Re: Evil Cole Podcast Commentary

Aug 14, 2013

BomB-RideR-14 wrote:

dragonsroc wrote:
Evil Cole does need a buff. His punch isn't very good right now, I'm sorry to say. Yes, the proposed buff may make the Dante EC MU in EC's favor, but that's one MU. Right now, his punch is practically useless in a lot of MU's. Like they said in the podcast, it's so slow that it's pretty easy to escape his oki, and it can't actually punish a lot of landing lag moves that he should be able to.

Also, they said they want to balance to high tier, because they want every character to have a range of good options. Thus, every character should be good, which imo is a great reason. Mid tier characters are mid tier because they only have a couple of safe options and have a couple of useless moves. The game wouldn't be as exciting if every character was like that instead of every character having a bunch of good options and no useless moves.

Well, they did say that he has trouble competing against top tiers like Raiden and Kratos. My question is: would he still need a buff if the top tiers were normalized in how strong they are?


Well right now, the punch only has enough armor to punch through things like jabs or stuff like Drake's AK. However, like Dabuz mentioned, when he absorbs hits, he actually slows down and the punch doesn't go as far. So he can't actually punish Drake's AK because he won't catch up before running out of armor. With the jabs, the start up on punch is too slow to activate armor to go through a jab as well unless he somehow reads the jab before they even throw it out. But if he gets blocked, he gets full combo'd or killed. So the punch is only useful as a mediocre oki setup and punishing long recoveries.

 

As for whether it needs faster start up AND more armor, I don't know. All I know is that it needs something, or Evil Cole needs buffs elsewhere. Because Evil Cole's game revolves around the punch to really do anything other than pokes, and right now his punch is just mediocre.

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