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Wastelander
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Re: Evil Cole: Giga Punch and R

Jan 4, 2013

GaleDaWindMasta wrote:

If you're talking about the Giga Punch setup, then no. It doesn't knock you up. It only knocks you away if you're in the air.

 

If he lands it, you're stuck falling to your knees completely helpless as he uses his super unless he just plain takes to long to do so.


I'm sorry but I think that this is ridiculous. You cannot do anything to escape it, and its a kill 100% of the time. It takes so little time to set up it is crazy!

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Wastelander
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Re: Evil Cole: Giga Punch and R

Jan 4, 2013

PinaChronic wrote:

I'm sorry but I think that this is ridiculous. You cannot do anything to escape it, and its a kill 100% of the time. It takes so little time to set up it is crazy!


This is why the community is so split on whether or not kill confirms should be kept in the game.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Evil Cole: Giga Punch and R

Jan 4, 2013
Roll back when they use it...?


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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Evil Cole: Giga Punch and R

Jan 4, 2013

What I hate is that tar mine that traps you when you step on it. It's hard to see and he gets a free kill every time.

_______________________________________________________________

I'll admit that I'd love to play the Last of Us 2: Among Hunters and The Last of Us 3: Joel's Deception. Thing is, Joel already was a hunter and he already deceived Ellie. So crap.
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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: Evil Cole: Giga Punch and R

Jan 4, 2013

unfortunately the giga punch is the only way to start decent combos with evil cole , but alternatively i would actually prefer that you would fly instead of stall.

ND if you happen to read this thanks!!!!
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Gaming Beast
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Re: Evil Cole: Giga Punch and R

[ Edited ]
Jan 4, 2013

Red_Ring_Ryko wrote:

It's not unblockable, it does not beat out other super armor moves (they trade and no one gains AP), it can be grabbed, and the rest of the properties do need to be reconsidered. I'd leave the super armor, I'd leave the crumple, I'd take away the fact that a partial charge is saved if Cole is hit, and I'd increase the charge by a second. Counters should also override the super armor, period.

 


Actually, it does beat super armor in that while they trade, all other super armor moves are still mid-animation when he goes back to neutral, allowing him to super them.





godlessmode wrote:

GP is blockable.

 

GP is generally punishable.

 

GP is incredibly good as well.

 

It doesn't really need a nerf yet.


How is it punishable? This isn't a reproach, but I can't figure out how to punish it. It's safe on block, and if you do anything other than roll away as quite a few characters (possibly all), you get supered. In the corner, he can combo it into super even if you block.





Red_Ring_Ryko wrote:

Why shouldnt it be? Are you going to take away toro's dive kick confirm, fp's warrior lunge, or number of moves that cause a stumble into level 1? Drake's barrel, sly's alarm clock or counter setup, raiden's 6 setups? How about good cole's 3 one-hit confirms into human bullet? How about sweet tooth's machete setup?


For Good Cole we're actually at 7 XD Both Coles need a nerf.





Ugh, this whole part got eaten by the browser... yay for retyping long posts...

My problem isn't that it hit confirms, it's that the move has ridiculous properties. It's instant startup and has the most super armor of any move in the game, meaning it can punish literally anything, and hitting EC's shield with a move that ISN'T positive on block leads to an instant loss of a stock. Now a number of characters don't have safe on block moves, meaning that just by standing in place blocking with 1 meter and a charged punch, EC is completely safe. You could say to get in and grab him, but if you're in his grab range he can kill you off of a throw.


This move can also instant punish any roll with a stock on reaction, and while it does require a charge, the charge can be interrupted while keeping the charge by pressing block (Like DK swing in Smash) making it safe to charge.


So let's review... Giga punch has the following properties:

-Beats every non-grab attack (Not including supers) in the game, including counters.
-Goes roughly half-screen, but distance depends on the momentum
-Comes out instantly!
-Charge can be canceled, making it safe
-Is safe on block! (And can combo into super off block in the corner)

-Has the fastest startup and ending animations of any super armored move in the game. It also has more super armor than any other move in the game.

-Beats counters.

 

 

That is a lot for a single move to have.

 

Now, you may have seen me argue against nerfing characters/moves/hitconfirms/etc, but this move seems like a legitimate problem. Honestly, I don't even want a huge nerf for it, but I do think it should get beaten by counter moves AND have one of the following changes:

 

-Make it unsafe on block. This would make you have to commit to it and make it punishable if the opponent blocks, and it takes out the possibility of it comboing into super on block in the right conditions. This way though it would still be great for punishing rolls, unsafe attacks on your block, beating out attacks.

 

OR

 

-Make it have a longer startup. Not necessarily a lot longer, but enough that you could actually react to it.

 

OR

 

-Get rid of the super armor altogether. This would allow it to still punish people who attack your block with unsafe attacks, still allow for good tech chasing and allow you to punish of rolls, BUT it would not allow you to just throw it out confident that it will win whenever the opponent presses a button. It also would make the punch more succeptible to zoning in general and not beat out super armor moves.

 

 

Implementing any one of these changes would keep it a great move while making it manageable. I personally would prefer option 3 myself.

 

 

That being said, if this move is in fact punishable and I just don't know how, then please inform me.

The Fro never sleeps.png


 

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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: Evil Cole: Giga Punch and R

[ Edited ]
Jan 4, 2013

Truthfully, the only real punishes on Evil Cole are if he spaces is poorly, then you need a fast jab or a strong grab AP setup. As far as the properties, you're preaching to the choir.

 

http://putthatback.org/sackboys-getting-nerfed-this-week-whos-next/

 

I wrote this article a few days into the game, but it got put up a bit later. If you want the summary, I mentioned Evil Cole first before Raiden and Kratos.

 

Giga Punch.png

 

The most egregious error they made is that the charge isnt lost when Evil Cole is hit while charging. Combine that with a longer charge (and take away the fact that it ignores counters), and the rest of the properties would be a straight "Deal with it" situation. It's a first order optimal strat that gets most of its "**bleep**" factor out of being a get out of jail free card against people who are too aggressive on the ground when trying to oki. Playing against ratchets, FPs, and any other aerial character that provides pressure, the problem right now is that the charge cannot be interrupted.

 

Otherwise it boils down to the fact that Evil Cole has a legitimate mix-up on a grounded opponent at point blank range. If he's beyond grab range, then you know he's gonna punch if he does anything at all. Otherwise, he's probably going to grind away to reestablish his zoning game. In every other situation other than against a grounded opponent, he literally has to read your jumps or movement to catch you with it off of a read (which I'm forced to resort to against FPs and pretty much anyone who isnt Dante, Raiden, Kratos, Or Heihachi)

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Evil Cole: Giga Punch and R

Jan 4, 2013

What happened with me last night:

 

*start up Ranked FFA*

 

*one opponent is a Level 999 Evil Cole with a 200-something black belt*

 

"Wow, I'm impressed.  He must have some serious skill to reach that level; I bet he's high on the leaderboards!"

 

*match starts*

 

"Alright, show me whatcha got, Evil Cole!"

 

*Giga Punches me into a Level 1*

 

D:< "Okay, I just was close to him, I guess..."

 

*does the same thing to everyone else the entire match*

 

*wins match, regardless of all the Level 1s and 2s we rack up*

 

DDDDD:<

 

--

 

Needless to say, I'm not very fond of the Giga Punch, especially if players take advantage of it to rack up BP.  It's one of the reasons why I'm working to master Good Cole instead.

 

 

 

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Gaming Beast
Registered: 11/22/2012
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Re: Evil Cole: Giga Punch and R

Jan 4, 2013
That was a really good article, especially for being written so early, although I admit I don't necessarily agree with everything 100%.

Then again, it took me a while to realize how good the Coles are so what do I know?

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