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Lombax Warrior
Registered: 12/11/2008
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

Jun 11, 2012

this_is_Marko wrote:

everyone keeps bringing up the logic of "if they copied this much why not copy all of it".  let's apply that logic to nintendo for a second.  if nintendo copied the dynamic zooming camera, environments that hurt you, respawning items that you can use to hurt your opponent with and then throw at them, and the general gameplay from "the outfoxies", why didn't they just take the health bar system as well instead of adding a percentage mode? why not just copy the characters?  because then, as with everything, gaming wouldn't move forward and smash brothers wouldn't have gotten as big as it did.  every game is built upon a game that came before it and altered slightly to make it fresh.  If people just flat out copyied  "wolfenstein 3d" as opposed to taking key elements and and altering them into something else, the entire first person shooter genre wouldn't even exist, just thousands of "wolfenstein 3d"-esque games that are all exactly the same

Personally, I would NOT like to see this approach at all. If SuperBot were to include a percentage/health/ringout system, I'd like to see their own take on it. The Super system is none of the above (there is no health, there are no ringouts), so I can understand why people are being skeptical. At least it's something different, but even Omar understands that being TOO different doesn't always benefit you in the end:

http://kotaku.com/5911134/sonys-playstation-smash-bros-has-won-me-over

I'm glad he feels that way. Bringing about too much change can hurt you rather than help you. Whether this battle system is a step forward or a step backward in the genre is something we won't know until we play the game extensively. One thing is for sure: at least its different! Maybe that's all it'll ever be, just something different. I think some people are upset because out of all the things SuperBot "copied," they decided not to copy what made SSB a blast to play in the first place (the fighting mechanic). I for one am glad they didn't, though I would still like to see their own take on a health based/ringout system. If I have to settle with this current system, I'm fine with that too, I'm just curious to see how they'll build upon it. 

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Gaming Beast
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

Jun 11, 2012

whatever ever you do, don't believe ign.  they are the single worst review site i have ever seen...especially greg miller.  normally what i do is read what they wrote and then take the opposite from it.  its actually pretty accurate that way

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

Jun 11, 2012

Lol yeah, they've really gone down hill.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

Jun 11, 2012

false. In SSB, there are multiple ways to knock someone off the stage. You can raise their percentage and knock them with a smash attack, a projectile, they can fall off them selves, etc. Here, you can only kill someone in 3 ways. that is very limiting, lessens th dynamic nature of this genre, and will get stale quick.

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Splicer
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

Jun 11, 2012

That was my opinion. Greg's opinion just happens to be similar to mine. As I said Im very skeptical and would like to see a damage component but Im still going to buy this game as I like all fighting games.

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First Son
Registered: 06/11/2012
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

Jun 11, 2012

IceColdKilla44 wrote:

I posted a (rather lengthy) explanation of the "death only by supers" mechanic in another thread, and I'll just repost it here. Basically, I like this fighting system a LOT, for the reasons I've specified below.

IceColdKilla44 wrote:

I like this system from what I've seen. A lot. Why? Because it does something that Smash Brothers' "percentage" system does not: It actually rewards players who fight. Let's compare the two fighitng systems, assuming we're playing 5-life stock battle on both.

In Smash Bros, your objective is to be the last man standing and to keep your percentage as close to zero as possible. The higher your percentage gets, the easier you become to kill (because even a light punch can kill someone at 200% very easily). Since you're more likely to get hit (and have your percentage rise up) if you fight people, the best strategy would be to just wait on the side and let the other 3 people fight each other until 1 opponent is left, most likely with only one life left and a high percentage. At this point, you don't even need to strategize. Just button mash; a weak punch is enough to make him go flying. So in a percentage system like Smash Bros, people who fight are punished and made weaker, but people who don't fight are rewarded with enemies that are easier to kill.

In Battle Royale's fight system, it looks like someone with 1 life has an equal chance of winning the match as someone with 5. If I just go and hide on one side of the map and wait for the other 3 to duke it out, I'm actually at a disadvantage. I may still have my 5 lives vs their one or two, but the key difference is that they've been filling up their super meter for super attacks, and I have not. If I just stand on the side and don't fight, I can't build up my super meter, and therefore I can't kill my opponent. Both players actually have to fight each other with their skill to build up their supers and EARN their kills fair and square, instead of the game giving them a huge handicap. Even if your opponent has already used up all his supers on other players, he is still at no disadvantage once it's just you vs. him. The two of you would just start from square 1 and build up your super bars for kills.

Battle Royale's system rewards people who fight and survive. Smash Bros. system rewards people who survive, but punishes those who fight. That's why I think Battle Royale's fighting system has a HUGE advantage from a competitive standpoint; It just doesn't make sense to punish players who fight in a fighting game.


Smash Brother's system does in fact reward those who fight, so you couldn't be anymore wrong. If you were to play stock in SSBB, of course you could just hide out and get the win, but what's different in SSBB is that you have the choice to play OTHER modes, and more people play TIME than stock if you haven't realized. In time, the winner is determined by how many kills they've garnered minus the times they've been killed. They regular fighting system is Smash Bros. has always been time, not stock. In Smash Bros, you can choose to play stock, time, or even stamina, while in Playstation All-Stars, time is your only choice. Don't try to criticize SSB just because it gives players MORE options to play.

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Gaming Beast
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

Jun 11, 2012

taranider wrote:

in Playstation All-Stars, time is your only choice.

stock mode has been confirmed for playstation all stars

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Gaming Beast
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

Jun 11, 2012

taranider wrote:

Smash Brother's system does in fact reward those who fight, so you couldn't be anymore wrong. If you were to play stock in SSBB, of course you could just hide out and get the win, but what's different in SSBB is that you have the choice to play OTHER modes, and more people play TIME than stock if you haven't realized. In time, the winner is determined by how many kills they've garnered minus the times they've been killed. They regular fighting system is Smash Bros. has always been time, not stock. In Smash Bros, you can choose to play stock, time, or even stamina, while in Playstation All-Stars, time is your only choice. Don't try to criticize SSB just because it gives players MORE options to play.

Sounds like you should do a little more research for this game. PS All Stars will have both time mode and stock mode, so that's the first thing you're wrong about.

Second, I don't know where you get your stats about people playing time mode more than stock in Smash Bros. Time may be Smash's default mode, but there's no question that the most competitive Smash players use stock (standard tournament rules for Smash Bros tournaments use stock lives, not time).

And thirdly, you didn't address the fact that even in time matches for Smash Bros, it is easy for someone who has been camping on the side to just run in and steal another player's kill. Which again, reinforces the point that Smash Bros rewards players who survive more than they reward those who fight. Minimal fighting and lots of camping is the objective in Smash, when in a fighting game, it should be the other way around. And that's exactly the way it is in Battle Royale because players have to earn their kills by fighting their opponents. You don't fight, you don't win.

It's not criticism. It's called analysis.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

Jun 11, 2012

Did they? bleh.. i swear there are soo many interviews and such i cant keep up. Could you maybe link me to the interview where he confirms this? my apologies.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

Jun 11, 2012

Agreed, i cant really think of any reason someone would play on Timed on SSB other then if they are A, being forced to, or B, are playing with new people and want everyone to play and have fun the whole match.

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